Builds Another 80 series build thread. The 'BlackHole' (1 Viewer)

[mervo]

Sunday I could be game. Monday I have to punch the clock having been off the last 10 days.

I'd run HA Hill and scare myself to death but am NOT running the chutes without sliders, 35"s, and stiffy springs. Rig is already looking like it's minus the lift due to bumpers, winches, tools, etc.

 

[mervo]

More random shots from the trip.

This is actually the START of Chlosey Trail. Wife was wondering if I had lost my mind and just decided to drown us all.

If you haven't done this trail, it ends at one of the most beautiful alpine cirques I've ever seen.

4th birthday root beer float at Slow Groovin in Marble.

Because, well, @beno is never more than a phone call away.

More wildflowers on LKB.

The only other traffic I saw at Chlosey, wish I could remember his MUD name. Super nice guy.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Sunday I could be game. Monday I have to punch the clock having been off the last 10 days.

I'd run HA Hill and scare myself to death but am NOT running the chutes without sliders, 35"s, and stiffy springs. Rig is already looking like it's minus the lift due to bumpers, winches, tools, etc.

Sliders coming up... they are delayed.... but have an end in sight on them.

J

 

[OGBeno]

More random shots from the trip.

This is actually the START of Chlosey Trail. Wife was wondering if I had lost my mind and just decided to drown us all.

If you haven't done this trail, it ends at one of the most beautiful alpine cirques I've ever seen.

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4th birthday root beer float at Slow Groovin in Marble.

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Because, well, @beno is never more than a phone call away.

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More wildflowers on LKB.

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The only other traffic I saw at Chlosey, wish I could remember his MUD name. Super nice guy.


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Awesome. We gotta do a trail run sometime soon before the snow flies.

 

[mervo]

Awesome. We gotta do a trail run sometime soon before the snow flies.

Say the word bro, I'll meet you in your neck of the woods.

 

[mervo]

Let the good times roll!!!!!

Thanks to J-, aka @reevesci and Andrea for picking me as the winner of the Trail Tailor Customer Loyalty raffle.

Shocks, springs, adjustable steering stabilizer, castor correction, hat and stickers!

It's time to get my stiff lift, and big tire upgrade!!

TT stickers on the box that is attached to my Trail Tailor bumper.

J-'s hundy next to my 80.

 

[mervo]

Installed and TRAIL PROVEN!!!

The TourFlex set-up rocked! Literally. There really is no reason not to go for the Tough Dog 3" inch lift as opposed to the OME 2.5" with medium springs. I honestly can't tell the difference on or off road, but I can tell the 1" difference and when loaded down with gear the rig doesn't sag.

Seriously, just do yourself a favor and hit @reevesci with an email and he'll set you up with what you need. Suspension, one-off custom armor, you name it, he can weld it.

Wife had to give the water crossing a run.

Little dude's favorite part of the day, LUNCH!!!!!!!

 

[Dragos80]

Installed and TRAIL PROVEN!!!
The TourFlex set-up rocked! Literally. There really is no reason not to go for the Tough Dog 3" inch lift as opposed to the OME 2.5" with medium springs. I honestly can't tell the difference on or off road, but I can tell the 1" difference and when loaded down with gear the rig doesn't sag.

It sounds like the never-ending threads on which oil is the best.
With Slinky and Dobinson, along with all the traditional setups, an objective comparison is needed.

 

[mervo]

It sounds like the never-ending threads on which oil is the best.
With Slinky and Dobinson, along with all the traditional setups, an objective comparison is needed.

No disagreement for sure. Slinky, Dobinson Icon, Slee, OME, you're right, the list goes on.

My only point is that it is drastically different (and should be) than my previous setup.

The steering stabilizer is "better" than my OME, and the street rode of the TD Constants vs OME Mediums is absolutely negligible which I would not have expected. (I expected to get rattled by a heavy setup) Ride is taller with or without gear, and for my use this setup makes more sense.

And in all honesty, I wish I would have known about this setup before i installed the OME as I would have skipped the OME medium setup, and just gone straight for the TD.

But like everything else in the world from Land Cruiser, to politics, ymmv.

 

[Dragos80]

OME has become the pariah of the suspension world.
There are more and better designs now than in the recent past.
The bad thing is that we don't have a direct comparison between the new line offerings from all those mentioned above. In all of the respective threads, each one is better than OME. So, by default OME has become the baseline.

I've been, mainly, following the Slinky and Dobinson threads with a little bit of input from TD owners.
So far I've been leaning towards Dobinson, due to the higher price Slinky comes with and their lack of availability (most of the time). I have'n heard as much about TD though. Ride quality, flexing factor, dual rate vs constant, settled ride height vs new, etc.
Actually all of these 3 setups are too new for all of us to have in depth reviews.

 

[mervo]

LONG RANT-

I"m going to leave this right here because it's my thread, and well... my opinion. (and we all know what they say about opinions)

It's been just over 2 years since I made one of the best decisions of my life, to purchase a Land Cruiser.
Not only has it enabled me and my family to check out places I wouldn't have had the privilege of visiting, but I've also met some of the most amazing people (even happened today) because of my Cruiser.

However, one thing that bothers me, (and to be honest it's probably because I also see it in my profession), is people that want to be compete and udder cheapskates and try to nickel and dime every vendor they come across.

While I realize most of us can't afford to spend frivolously, (myself included) and many of us work on our rigs because we can't afford to pay Slee (or the stealership) to do all the work, I think it's important to understand a few things;

1. All of us drive a vehicle that, when new, probably cost in excess of 50k+.

Regardless if you spent 2k, 10k, or 20k for your 80Series the original price far exceeded whatever you paid. You can't think a vehicle that listed for over 50k+ is going to require the same maintenance of a vehicle that listed for 14k (such as my 95 22re)

2. Your rig is a technological masterpiece!

It takes handwork, and hard earned cash to keep a 20+ year old rig doing the things we want, period. No way around it. You want to do all the work yourself? GREAT! You need to pay someone to do it? (yeah, sometimes me too) But I don't bitch about the price as my rig isn't a corolla, it's a mother fu**ing Land Cruiser.

I once heard a young guy arguing with an employee at a very reputable Cruiser shop over a $200 tab....while at the same time another customer was dropping off his new 200 series with 6 miles on the odometer to have 30k of work done to it..... see the difference? Why should that shop even want to work on an 80 when their being driven by penny pinching dip shi*s when a 200 series guy doesn't even ask what the price is going to be... Point being, if the shop tells me parts, labor, is XXX dollars and they stand behind their work, I pay the man his money and thank him for his time, which is exactly what I would expect of someone if they were using me for my expertise.

3. We have AMAZING people in our community that have committed themselves to supplying us with parts, creating masterpieces of armor, keeping us safer, more comfortable, and overall just supporting an extremely small community.

I know for a FACT that most of Land Cruiser vendors around here, and locally, have made far more money in their previous lives. Some as welders, engineers, and fabricators in other industries. They feed their families, pay their mortgages, and save for retirement through their businesses, which...news flash, IS NOT A NON-PROFIT. So again, if you want that new fangled widget that a MUD member just fabbed up, you can pay the man what he asks, or not. But don't make yourself sound like an idiot by haggling over the price, or posting that it's not worth it, it's too expensive, etc., it only makes you look stupid.

In summation, I hate seeing people bitch about price of a one off custom pieces of armor, or bitching about the price of a part, or complaining about crappy gas mileage, or how much it cost to have work done on their rig. You drive a freakin Land Cruiser so sack the fu** up and quit complaining, you're making my ears hurt.

 

[Dragos80]

Everyone has an opinion on things and a perceived notion of what the value of something should be.

I agree with some things you pointed out, but at the same time nobody pays sticker price on a brand new car. Even on Land Cruisers.

 

[mervo]

Agree with perceived value. However, I would never consider telling a fabricator, mechanic, or business person their price is out of line, I just wouldn't buy the product.

As Warren Buffer said, "Price is what you pay, value is what you get."

 

[Dragos80]

Ask yourself what would happen without a free market.
Everything is negotiable, even salaries.
If you don't care how much you pay for things, you are either loaded beyond belief, or you don't value yourself enough.
Most people in the world want to stretch their dollar as much as possible and at the same time slow down a price escalation which would be inevitable without negotiation.

Competition is a form of negotiation as well. You don't have to buy anything from the first vendor you see.
We always check the prices on everything on amazon, eBay, alibaba, Autozone, etc and see what makes more sense to us.

Even if you don't end up buying something, it is still a form of negotiation. You simply did not agree with the price offered. Also, maybe you don't need it that badly and can wait till the price drops. Right? Or the item is offered on the secondary market.

In the early 90's the Americans messed up the street market in China for the rest of the world.
Their lack of understanding of negotiation immediately increased the prices on everything. The Chinese love to negotiate. The Americans did not negotiate. They simply paid the asking price. Everybody else was priced out, because at that time the Chinese perceived there are more fools from US coming to their market and pay whatever they asked for.

Competition is also a good thing too. If a vendor keeps the prices up, there will be a time when he will be forced to reduce the prices as others will end up selling the same thing for less and in larger quantities. Thats indirect negotiation. You don't have to argue about the price, you simply go where the prices are more in line with what you are willing to pay.

And Warren Buffett is an excellent negotiator.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Well from a vendors stand point there are several of us that simply won't "negotiate" anymore. We feel our price is the best we wish to offer it for and that's it. IMO the negotiation has become more and more prevalent in the past 4 years with the influx of Taco, FJC and Jeep consumers buying into the cruiser niche.

@beno said it best today. "it's ok for someone else to make a living, but it's seemingly not ok for folks like us--whom quite clearly support the community with both technical knowledge and support--to make a living? This is disingenuous and hypocritical."

IMO, you should beat up on the big companies for price breaks etc.. But instead people choose to go after the smaller, more vulnerable companies because it's been shown time and time again that they are more hungry and need the work/sale to keep their doors open. So, while the American dream to own a business is still a daily goal for IIRC 37% of the US population, the American people are a large contributor of why the smaller businesses go out of business. When was the last time you went into Walmart, Best Buy or your local grocer and at the checkout line said. "I need to speak to your manager" and try to get a discount simply based on the principle of being a cheap bastard. The answer is NEVER, because it simply is not feasible and you'd be laughed out of the store.

The main reason it's not feasible is that the groceries in your cart, or the refrigerator you're waiting to buy or the misc household goods in the Walmart cart are more important in your mind than the $200.00- $3000.00 worth of bling you want to put on your cruiser. Need and want dictate everyone's buying choices. Plain and simple it's self entitlement and you are the only person that matters in the grand scheme of things. As long as you get a deal that's all that matters. I beat my major suppliers up for volume pricing all the time. But that's a bit different as I have always had the end user in mind. I'm asking to buy more product for less. The burden then is on me to sell sometimes 10 times the quantity for a marginal profit. We all know that in all things cruisers, any new product has to damn near sell out in the first 90 days of release or you'll have it on the shelf for years to come.

My absolute favorite is when someone started something good for a specific cruiser community, backs out after several years of hosting, arranging the event, countless man hours, and no doubt countless $$ out of his own pocket and let someone else take over with more time and enthusiasm and now the poor guy is some bastard redheaded stepchild because he isn't there donating large amounts of raffle prizes and kissing the new event directors and customers asses. Well the reason he's not there is because he was smart enough to move on and find the next best thing for himself, family, business, and employees. I applaud him for getting out and moving on. But I think its pretty chicken s*** to be treated and talked about the way he is now. I only sell to a few of the cruiser groups, there's a reason for it.

And Warren Buffet is not a good negotiator, he is the quintessential vulture in all things business. Just like 90% of the other uber-wealthy entities in this or any other country. He even has a book explaining that this is his preferred takeover method. If I remember the statement correctly; "why talk about a buyout when you can force one in your favor."

BTW the cruiser is really taking shape for you S. Can't wait to see the monster with 37s.

J

 

[Dragos80]

I am not defending my position here at all. I'm merely trying to translate the consumer end of things. I am not a vendor.

I never asked anyone here for any discount on anything. I simply paid the price asked. I explained above how I might negotiate certain things, if I feel the price is not right for me.

It might be a low entry price for getting into the LC world in the beginning, but then things add up. Baselining, bumpers, sliders, brakes, headlights, interior, stereo, tires, lift kit, tools, air compressor, snorkel, horsepower stickers...
As a consumer you want to stretch your money as much as possible and get as many things as you can within a predetermined budget.

Then the wife sees all the receipts and you have a lot explaining to do. You promise her it's the last time you buy anything for your cruiser, but you know you're lying. You tell her she can drive it too and she'll be the envy of the neighborhood in a bad ass SUV. She won't let you see her smile, but she is thinking about it and agrees with you without letting you know.
Then she drives it more and more and you only get to enjoy the cruiser when you need to change the oil.

You can only hope, at this point, she will complain about something so you can buy that lift kit you always wanted and make seem as if you are doing a good deed in this case for your wife.
If tells you there is a rattle somewhere, you immediately jump into action and tell her she needs better speakers so she cannot here anything going on outside of the car. A subwoofer might just do the trick honey.

Yeah, so it never ends.



What was the initial question about my wife? I forgot.

 

[mervo]

Needed clear radio stations and the rubber whip (which replaced the OEM mast) wasn't cutting it for some of the stations I wanted to reach in Cheyenne.

I damn near forgot about the Multiplexor I had in the project drawer, thanks to wifey for remembering.

 

[mervo]

Drifta Drawer sytem.

Now i just need @reevesci to whip up some sliders and I'll have the excuse I need to take a trip to CA to pick them up.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Drifta Drawer sytem.

Now i just need @reevesci to whip up some sliders and I'll have the excuse I need to take a trip to CA to pick them up.


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I still have the rails built from before we moved. I will have them ready in a couple of weeks.

J

 

[NGUDE]

that drawer set rules! did you import yourself?