If you had to pull the heads to replace the HG, would you modify the coolant jacket spacer somehow?
Another 2013 Head Gasket
- Thread starter Wolvie
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Yes, I would, at a minimum, trim some of the upper portion away. How much needs to be determined. There is a line molded in to the spacer that matches the opposite open exhaust side. It also aligns with the entry height of the of the blocked off cross drill holes. Perhaps, we should make a thread outside of @Wolvie head gasket failure and get all the info contained in one place?
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FWIW - I got my 2013 with 83k, did a coolant change before 100k. Ended up needing radiator replacement at around 130k, so new coolant then. Now I'm at 148k and the HG went bye bye.
*Edit - would be interesting to know the % of HG failures that also had prior radiator replacements. No idea how they would correlate, but it's coolant related and the rad is a known failure point.
Radiator doesn’t fail due to coolant chemistry. It fails due to stress risers developing and cracking from thermal-cycling around a poorly designed initial injection mold.FWIW - I got my 2013 with 83k, did a coolant change before 100k. Ended up needing radiator replacement at around 130k, so new coolant then. Now I'm at 148k and the HG went bye bye.
*Edit - would be interesting to know the % of HG failures that also had prior radiator replacements. No idea how they would correlate, but it's coolant related and the rad is a known failure point.
Now I'm wishing I had the forethought to modify the cooling jacket liners while I had the heads off.
IIRC you retrofitted an expansion tank to at least one of your vehicles.. would you consider this a worthwhile investment for those people really hoping to avoid this fate?
IIRC you retrofitted an expansion tank to at least one of your vehicles.. would you consider this a worthwhile investment for those people really hoping to avoid this fate?
Eh you’ve got the updated head gasket which is a different material formulation. Not that it wouldn’t suck to have to do it again as you approach 500k miles, but at some point around then you’ll probably need to do the bottom end of the motor anyway, right?
For what it is worth, The Car Care Nut has a new video on the head gasket issue. I did my first coolant change just before 60,000 miles on my 2021 LC. According to my service advisor, the new recommendation is 60,000 and then every 50,000 after that if I remember correctly. He even showed me the document. It's been over a year so I don't remember the specifics. I'm planning on changing it again at 100,000, along with the tranny fluid, then every 50,000 on. I do oil every 5,000 and diffs / T-case every 30,000.
Interesting. So one of the 2014 and up change to the head gaskets was to coat the entire gasket surface with the viton. I'm not sure how or why that itself makes such a huge difference in the failure rate, because the leaks typically developed in the coolant passages immediately next to/between the cylinders, which already was largely coated even in the pre-2014 design. Perhaps the coating itself was also improved?
The golden years of Toyota and one of the best even for that time.
It sounds like bad luck if that was your coolant history. I mention the radiator because it means fresh coolant would be added.FWIW - I got my 2013 with 83k, did a coolant change before 100k. Ended up needing radiator replacement at around 130k, so new coolant then. Now I'm at 148k and the HG went bye bye.
*Edit - would be interesting to know the % of HG failures that also had prior radiator replacements. No idea how they would correlate, but it's coolant related and the rad is a known failure point.
I bought mine from Toyota with with 160k and noticed it had a fresh radiator put in already. I'm not sure about the water pump. Its not my daily anymore so when I use it we are towing or going cross country to off road and camp. So I drain and fill the coolant out of the radiator every summer and winter without fail.
TCCN videos are just confirming a flawed design failure acceleratedby lack of maintenance. Also most people are complacent with Toyotas thinking they are bulletproof and neglect proper fluid changes. I would say most people have zero clue coolant turns acidic and can expedite gasket failure. 0.02
PSA:
When all of you are visiting the dealership for “coolant replacement” or “coolant flush” are you aware (or MADE aware) that service is ALMOST ALWAYS a radiator drain/fill that replaces only about 1/4-1/3 the system’s total capacity?
I feel like I hear service advisors say “flush” a lot, and it is 100% incorrect. The same goes for a transmission drain/fill. That is not a flush or a total replacement. Hell, we don’t even HAVE a transmission flush machine anymore.
Using the correct terms with customers is a big issue for service advisors. These people can read and write—I’ve seen it! They can remember the name of the dog that Mrs. Jones is holding. But they can’t seem to remember “hey, don’t tell the customer it’s a flush, it is just a drain and fill.”
I like to ..advise.. the advisors: “you are a salesman first and a telephone operator second—and neither of those is a compliment.”
Just one more soft boner in the orgy.
When all of you are visiting the dealership for “coolant replacement” or “coolant flush” are you aware (or MADE aware) that service is ALMOST ALWAYS a radiator drain/fill that replaces only about 1/4-1/3 the system’s total capacity?
I feel like I hear service advisors say “flush” a lot, and it is 100% incorrect. The same goes for a transmission drain/fill. That is not a flush or a total replacement. Hell, we don’t even HAVE a transmission flush machine anymore.
Using the correct terms with customers is a big issue for service advisors. These people can read and write—I’ve seen it! They can remember the name of the dog that Mrs. Jones is holding. But they can’t seem to remember “hey, don’t tell the customer it’s a flush, it is just a drain and fill.”
I like to ..advise.. the advisors: “you are a salesman first and a telephone operator second—and neither of those is a compliment.”
Just one more soft boner in the orgy.
I’ve been doing drain and fills with the radiator and block petcocks when I do mine. Replacing approx 40-50% of the capacity at a time. If you do this 3-4 times (I know, It’s a lot) you should get to approximately 87.5% of new volume of coolant in the system or better - depending on 3/4 drain and fills and volume of drained coolant. TBH, it’s kind of a pia to do and takes a long time for coolant to drain.
Is there a sticky/thread for getting coolant out that I’m missing aside from the radiator and engine block drains? I’m wondering how much (if any) volume goes to the rear hvac.
I’m going to be the lone voice again in saying I think it’s more of a design flaw vs solely “acidic” coolant.
Finally - all hail his name!
Draining the radiator AND the block like you’re doing is far better. You’re replacing a large portion of the total volume.
The rear does have a heater core and two pipes to send and return coolant, I don’t know how much coolant is in that group of parts but I feel like a radiator AND block drain and fill replaces enough to be confident of the coolant chemistry.
How about:
-drain radiator and block
-then fill the system with distilled water
-run the engine for awhile, heater on
-drain it all out again
-refill with fresh coolant
Learned on the 100 forum.
-drain radiator and block
-then fill the system with distilled water
-run the engine for awhile, heater on
-drain it all out again
-refill with fresh coolant
Learned on the 100 forum.
I would not put water in the cooling system as you will not be able to get it all out. Since SLLC is pre-mixed, you will never be able to get back to a 50/50 ratio.
Draining the radiator and both block drains can remove right around 3 gallons. Do this and refill with straight SLLC every 50-60k is what I normally do.
OK, that makes sense.
Makes me wonder though, anybody switch to SLC (red) coolant in a 200? I have a lot of it in the garage....