Aisin manual hub issue

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Dirty Koala

Dirty Koala

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I had a pair of Aisin hubs overnighted so that I could replaced the AVM hub I had to cut off on Sunday. This evening I swapped on the Aisin hub, but am having an issue.

Once I tighten the 6 small screwed that hold the locking assembly to the body of the hub, the locking ring becomes to tight to move. If I leave the bolts finger loose, the hubs operate correctly.

Anybody run into this issue before?
 
landtank said:
you want to search here to confirm this info as I'm not 100% sure but, I beleive the AVM hubs will work with the longer spline Birfs while the Aisins won't unless you machine a groove on those longer splines to similate the shorter splined Birfs.
Click to expand...

But won't just swapping flanges take care of that? I don't know the answer, just asking.
 
The part number on the invoice from cruiser parts is FHT-‐002/ New 43530-‐60042

From everything I have read, that is the right part. The splines are all meshing correctly, locking and unlocking....until I tighten up the hub face bolts, then the dial is to tight to move.

I am baffled right now...I have pulled this apart about 10 times tonight so far.
 
Looking at your thread with the trashed AVM hub it looks like you need the other groove. If you are super duper careful you can cut the groove without pulling the the shaft. Don't recommend it but I did it when I didn't cut a thick enough groove when I had it out. A cut off wheel will cut through it like butter so watch out.
 
landtank said:
you want to search here to confirm this info as I'm not 100% sure but, I beleive the AVM hubs will work with the longer spline Birfs while the Aisins won't unless you machine a groove on those longer splines to similate the shorter splined Birfs.
Click to expand...

ppc said:
Look at post #3. Landtank is correct the stub axle needs another groove cut.
Click to expand...

Mr Cimarron said:
Looking at your thread with the trashed AVM hub it looks like you need the other groove. If you are super duper careful you can cut the groove without pulling the the shaft. Don't recommend it but I did it when I didn't cut a thick enough groove when I had it out. A cut off wheel will cut through it like butter so watch out.
Click to expand...

The picture that you are referencing Cim was taken right after I cut the AVM off, before I pulled that birf out. I was pulling it out to replace it with a chromoly nitro birf that does have both grooves already cut. So the issue was not related to the groove, the hub body fit on and the c clip snapped right into the inboard groove as expected.

The issue was with connecting the selector ring/face of locking hub to body of locking hub. The internal locking mesh ring (I am sure there is a technical name for it) would engage and disengage as expected, until I tightened the 6 10mm face screws down all the way. That was creating too much pressure against the inside of the selector dial, making ir so that you couldn't turn it by hand.

There is a gasket that goes between the hub body and sector ring/hub face. With the one gasket in place I had the issue. I then took the same gasket from my 2nd locking hub (which I wasn't planning on installing yet as I don't have a passenger side birf with the 2nd groove cut) and doubled up the gasket on the drivers side.

This effectively spaced out the face of the hub from the body of the hub by about 15-20 thousandths, which was all it needed to fix the issue.

I just took the truck for a 30 minute shake down and so far all good. Ready to go camping tomorrow...err I mean today.

Very odd issue to come across, I will need to get a couple more gaskets for the passenger side before I swap that one in.
 
Sounds like you have a solution. I'd have to think about it some more but the procedure below may allow for more spline engagement for a stronger connection.

Attached is a diagram for cutting the second groove and some quotes from Beno for people searching in the future.

"If you lave 246.5mm birfs than you will need to have a c-clip groove machined/cut for you. If you have a 238.5mm birf that you are a plug and play for the Aisin 30 spline hubs."

"Yes, 4/1994 and later got the 246.5mm birfs. You will need to either have a machinist cut the grooves 13mm down from the top (with a 3mm groove) or do it yourself. I have 3 birfs that need to have new grooves (bought a new earlier, shorter birf) so I farmed it out to my local machinist."

birfield machined groove diag.webp
 
Dirty Koala said:
The picture that you are referencing Cim was taken right after I cut the AVM off, before I pulled that birf out. I was pulling it out to replace it with a chromoly nitro birf that does have both grooves already cut. So the issue was not related to the groove, the hub body fit on and the c clip snapped right into the inboard groove as expected.

The issue was with connecting the selector ring/face of locking hub to body of locking hub. The internal locking mesh ring (I am sure there is a technical name for it) would engage and disengage as expected, until I tightened the 6 10mm face screws down all the way. That was creating too much pressure against the inside of the selector dial, making ir so that you couldn't turn it by hand.

There is a gasket that goes between the hub body and sector ring/hub face. With the one gasket in place I had the issue. I then took the same gasket from my 2nd locking hub (which I wasn't planning on installing yet as I don't have a passenger side birf with the 2nd groove cut) and doubled up the gasket on the drivers side.

This effectively spaced out the face of the hub from the body of the hub by about 15-20 thousandths, which was all it needed to fix the issue.

I just took the truck for a 30 minute shake down and so far all good. Ready to go camping tomorrow...err I mean today.

Very odd issue to come across, I will need to get a couple more gaskets for the passenger side before I swap that one in.
Click to expand...
That is odd but you got it to work so that means your off wheeling this weekend, right?.
 
Mr Cimarron said:
That is odd but you got it to work so that means your off wheeling this weekend, right?.
Click to expand...
Yes I got it working and will be headed up to Dave's Place with a handful of the Gotham guys tomorrow for some camping and wheeling.

As I lay here trying to fall asleep I think I may have figured out what is going on...but I won't be sure until I pull the hub off again to look.

The new nitro chromoly birf I put in, came with a zerk fitting in the end so that you can add moly to the birf/knuckle without having to tear the knuckle apart. I have a feeling that the zerk is causing the clearance issue.

If I am correct, then I could remove the zerk fitting. My only concern then would be about moly getting pushed through the birf and into the locking hub body...not sure it would be a possibility. I guess I could find the right size bolt to plug it up with.
 
ppc said:
I think you will find that the primary interference is with the snap ring not nessarily the zerk but is worth a try.
Click to expand...
Nope, no issue with snap ring or groove.

This morning I popped the hub off and it was immediately obvious that the zerk fitting was causing the clearance issue. I removed the zerk and one of the 2 gaskets I had installed last night and it all went together without issue.

So for those that are running Aisin locking hubs 43530-60042, have it be known that the nitro chromoly Birfs will not fit with the zerk installed.

Next question, do you think I need to find something to plug up the zerk hole with?

You can see the tip of the zerk is ground from rubbing on the hub. Also note there is no issue with the snap ring.
20150905_094036.webp


Backside of the hub face has a matching zerk contact scar.
20150905_094044.webp


Zerk fitting removed from nitro birf
20150905_094313.webp


Removed 2nd gasket as that was only a bandaid solution.
20150905_094324.webp


All back together and operating as expected.
20150905_094647.webp
 
Is the hole the same thread as an OEM shaft? If so its a common metric thread. I alway use a random bolt laying around to pull the shaft a bit when installing the snap ring.
 
Mr Cimarron said:
Is the hole the same thread as an OEM shaft? If so its a common metric thread. I alway use a random bolt laying around to pull the shaft a bit when installing the snap ring.
Click to expand...
I have a feeling it is a pipe thread, but I will take a closer look later this weekend. Still trying to get out of the house....I have had the truck and trailer packed since 10am...gettibg out the door with the Mrs and baby is a slow affair.
Mr Cimarron said:
And those hubs really make an 80 look tough. Good job.
Click to expand...
Yeah these hubs are much much nicer than the AVM's, no comparison.
 
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