'91 3FE A-440F: Transmission Overhaul Necessary or Something Simpler? ISSUES AFTER SITTING 1 YR.

[Rev91]

So I recently got my '91 3FE FJ80 back in my possession after loaning it to my brother who needed it. He said he had no issues with hard shifting and it was running great while he used it. Since then, it's sat at his place for about a year.

Prior to loaning it to him, (when it was my daily driver) I had some hard shifting issues and had an incident where it was in gear but would not drive. My old mechanic did some things to make it operable again (see TRANSMISSION CONTEXT).

Within the past month, I proceeded to do a mad-dash overhaul on this thing (see OVERHAUL CONTEXT) since I was told it was pressing to get it removed from the driveway.

ISSUES ARISE--TEST DRIVE after sitting 1 yr:

• Short Test-Drive around the block:
  • It was driving perfectly fine but after operating a little while the hard shifting became more and more noticeable.
  • Started to slow down to almost lurching forward. Praise God I made it to the driveway before this happened.
  • I tried adjusting through the gears (P,R,N,D,3,2). It started to idle high 2000 RPM in PARK and NEUTRAL and 1100 RPM in DRIVE and REVERSE... In Drive in would not move forward regardless of how I pressed on the gas.
  • Gray sweetish light smoke coming from engine bay: Could this just be burning off from the coolant flush we'd just done (see "OVERHAUL/CONTEXT" below)? We checked the transmission dip stick and the fluid did not appear burnt.. it still looked red.
• I let it sit, was able to get in neutral, and roll it forward back to the shop area. I adjusted the throttle cable and transmission cable to where they only had a "slight give".
• 2nd Short Test-Drive: it ran fine again (and it actually idled better 600-800rpm) until it started to shift hard and would push to higher rpms before ever shifting gears. It came to a point to where it slowed down on its own again. It was once again in gear but would not move forward. I readjusted the transmission cable and was able to limp it home as short distance. Again but less severe, Gray sweetish light smoke started coming from engine bay. Checked fluid and it was the same story. It's not a vibrant red but its red--it did not appear burnt/blackened.

WOULD WELCOME SOLID INPUT HERE. IS IT WORTH DROPPING THE PAN AND JUST CHANGING THE FILTER? OR AM I WASTING MY TIME? PLEASE ADVISE.

(A-440F) TRANSMISSION CONTEXT:
My old mechanic had previously addressed this hard shifting and not moving when in gear with:

1) topped off fluids​

2) an aftermarket transmission fluid cooler added to front of the radiator​

3) also he disconnected the 4WD actuator (which sits on top of the transmission, accessible by the underside of the car, under the center console area)--this kept the vehicle drivable.​

Since his adjustments, it was drivable, but it just seemed to be shifting hard.​

​

OVERHAUL/CONTEXT:

1. drained fuel tank via fuel tank drain plug and replaced rubber crush washer with nylon and high temp thread sealant
2. updated in-line fuel filter with WIX
3. replaced with new fuel and royal purple Max Atomizer to clean the system
4. addressed a heat soak issue with a DEI thermal blanket and a new 4 Gauge cable from the wiring harness
5. attempted to run a 100A continuous external solenoid to further combat the heat soak issue but ultimately abandoned the idea when the first few attempts were unsuccessful (maybe I'll reattempt one day)
6. did coolant flush (radiator drain plug and out bleeder on driver side of engine near firewall) with 14 Gallons of Distilled water and 2 Cans of Prestone Cooling System Cleaner (replaced with Zerex red Asian concentrate and diluted to 50|50 and ensured to burp the system)
7. checked for old hoses (no bulges or leaks)
8. bled the brakes since my brother replaced the brake booster ("A-Premium Power Brake Booster 4461060620")... That was a FUN process. The LSPV is such a delight... let me tell y'all. I watched a video saying go in order of PR, LSPV, DR, PF, DF--but when that was unsuccessful for me (air in lines, lspv seemed to choke off flow to the back, old fluid had degraded and I was thinking there blocks in the flow of things, and I was getting by some fluid bypass on the threads of my bleeder screw for the PR) I came up with my own plan to basically flood the back brakes --> 3 bleeder contraptions (LSPV, PR, and DR) with all 3 bleeder screws slightly open at once, permatex high temp thread sealant on the bleeder screw for PR, and I adjusted the 2 nuts on the LSPV to sit higher on the bolt so that the system would allow more hydraulic pressure on the back drums when braking. I successfully purged the system of air with all 3 slightly open and closed off all 3 while rolling around on creeper in the area where the spare tire would be. The "flood front" method I came up with seemed to work.
9. I checked the engine oil and it appeared fine (color and level) and I figured since it had way less than 3k miles driven since I last changed it it would be fine (not to mention an extended life Mobil filter)
10. I checked the transmission dipstick and it was fine (color and level).

 

[jonheld]

"he disconnected the 4WD actuator (which sits on top of the transmission, accessible by the underside of the car, under the center console area)--this kept the vehicle drivable."
What does this mean? Was the CDL stuck in the locked position OR was the truck not able to drive with the CDL unlocked??

"It started to idle high 2000 RPM in PARK and NEUTRAL"
Idle speed is controlled by the ECU and should be 650 rpm at normal operating temperature. It sounds like the throttle cable is too tight and not allowing the throttle plate to rest on the idle endstop. There should be a bit of slack in the throttle cable at idle.

The A440F transmission is VERY picky about fluid level. It should be checked after driving around for a while to get to normal operating temperature. Park on a level surface WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING. Shift through the gears and back to park.
It should be exactly at the HOT mark on the dipstick. Fluid should be bright candy red.

"addressed a heat soak issue with a DEI thermal blanket and a new 4 Gauge cable from the wiring harness"
No clue what you're talking about.

"permatex high temp thread sealant on the bleeder screw"
Why would you do that?

 

[Rev91]

"he disconnected the 4WD actuator (which sits on top of the transmission, accessible by the underside of the car, under the center console area)--this kept the vehicle drivable."
What does this mean? Was the CDL stuck in the locked position OR was the truck not able to drive with the CDL unlocked??

"It started to idle high 2000 RPM in PARK and NEUTRAL"
Idle speed is controlled by the ECU and should be 650 rpm at normal operating temperature. It sounds like the throttle cable is too tight and not allowing the throttle plate to rest on the idle endstop. There should be a bit of slack in the throttle cable at idle.

The A440F transmission is VERY picky about fluid level. It should be checked after driving around for a while to get to normal operating temperature. Park on a level surface WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING. Shift through the gears and back to park.
It should be exactly at the HOT mark on the dipstick. Fluid should be bright candy red.

"addressed a heat soak issue with a DEI thermal blanket and a new 4 Gauge cable from the wiring harness"
No clue what you're talking about.

"permatex high temp thread sealant on the bleeder screw"
Why would you do that?

"What does this mean? Was the CDL stuck in the locked position OR was the truck not able to drive with the CDL unlocked??"
- To be transparent, I am not exactly sure how it worked. But I know it was disconnected bc it was malfunctioning. My understanding is that the CDL can bind preventing proper fluid flow/shifting. Disconnecting it "leaves the center diff in the unlocked position by default or allows manual positioning. This restores normal full-time 4WD operation where the front and rear propshafts can turn at different speeds on pavement — avoiding the "one-wheel drive" or binding feel that mimics transmission problems (hard shifting, no forward movement, high RPMs before engaging)".

"Idle speed is controlled by the ECU and should be 650 rpm at normal operating temperature. It sounds like the throttle cable is too tight and not allowing the throttle plate to rest on the idle endstop. There should be a bit of slack in the throttle cable at idle.
-What's weird is it was fine at initial start-up after my adjustment with the engine running--idling in the range of 600-800rpm in park. It was after I took the drive and it started lurching to a halt that the idle, in P&N, increased to this HIGH range.

"The A440F transmission is VERY picky about fluid level. It should be checked after driving around for a while to get to normal operating temperature. Park on a level surface WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING. Shift through the gears and back to park.
It should be exactly at the HOT mark on the dipstick. Fluid should be bright candy red."

• I cannot drive it around without it starting to slow it self down like it did... It's weird. If I park it and let it sit, I can start up and drive again just fine.
• Also, so we are understanding each other correctly, I DID check the fluid after the engine was running on level ground--after the test drive-- and I shifted through the all the gears (P<R<N<D<3<2 and back up again). Color was not "CANDY BRIGHT RED" it was more dull red like an old barn.

"No clue what you're talking about."
-I've had an issue of "heat-soak" where heat from the engine after initial startup causes increased electrical resistance in the starter--resulting in "click but no crank" after you start, drive until the engine warms up, park, and try to quickly restart the engine like you would if you were running errands. I bought a heat shield blanket to prevent the issue from amazon. "Design Engineering 010384 Mini Versa-Shield 5.25" x 16.5" Starter Heat Shield Wrap". I also, updated the large input wire from the (+) side of the battery, that connects to the fusible links, and routes to the starter.

"why the permatex thread sealant"
-tried to bleed brakes and the bleeder screw was having fluid come out of the base of the threads and not the little peep hole. This was a way to workaround some threads that potentially got damaged and I didnt want to retap/heli-coil.


Any other thoughts on transmission situation or what this could be? Thanks btw.

 

[jonheld]

"What does this mean? Was the CDL stuck in the locked position OR was the truck not able to drive with the CDL unlocked??"
- To be transparent, I am not exactly sure how it worked. But I know it was disconnected bc it was malfunctioning. My understanding is that the CDL can bind preventing proper fluid flow/shifting. Disconnecting it "leaves the center diff in the unlocked position by default or allows manual positioning. This restores normal full-time 4WD operation where the front and rear propshafts can turn at different speeds on pavement — avoiding the "one-wheel drive" or binding feel that mimics transmission problems (hard shifting, no forward movement, high RPMs before engaging)".

Almost everything you wrote is incorrect. The CDL is in the transfer case and has nothing to do with how the transmission works.

"Idle speed is controlled by the ECU and should be 650 rpm at normal operating temperature. It sounds like the throttle cable is too tight and not allowing the throttle plate to rest on the idle endstop. There should be a bit of slack in the throttle cable at idle.
-What's weird is it was fine at initial start-up after my adjustment with the engine running--idling in the range of 600-800rpm in park. It was after I took the drive and it started lurching to a halt that the idle, in P&N, increased to this HIGH range.

Throttle cable binding or something mechanical not allowing the throttle plate to return to idle.

"The A440F transmission is VERY picky about fluid level. It should be checked after driving around for a while to get to normal operating temperature. Park on a level surface WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING. Shift through the gears and back to park.
It should be exactly at the HOT mark on the dipstick. Fluid should be bright candy red."

• I cannot drive it around without it starting to slow it self down like it did... It's weird. If I park it and let it sit, I can start up and drive again just fine.
• Also, so we are understanding each other correctly, I DID check the fluid after the engine was running on level ground--after the test drive-- and I shifted through the all the gears (P<R<N<D<3<2 and back up again). Color was not "CANDY BRIGHT RED" it was more dull red like an old barn.

"No clue what you're talking about."
-I've had an issue of "heat-soak" where heat from the engine after initial startup causes increased electrical resistance in the starter--resulting in "click but no crank" after you start, drive until the engine warms up, park, and try to quickly restart the engine like you would if you were running errands. I bought a heat shield blanket to prevent the issue from amazon. "Design Engineering 010384 Mini Versa-Shield 5.25" x 16.5" Starter Heat Shield Wrap". I also, updated the large input wire from the (+) side of the battery, that connects to the fusible links, and routes to the starter.

Useless. Without proper diagnostics you've done nothing. Is the starter solenoid pulling in during this "heat soak" issue?
Is the starter getting the correct voltage from the ignition switch on the small terminal?
Is the motor side of the starter motor making good contact with copper lug on the starter and the positive battery terminal?

"why the permatex thread sealant"
-tried to bleed brakes and the bleeder screw was having fluid come out of the base of the threads and not the little peep hole. This was a way to workaround some threads that potentially got damaged and I didnt want to retap/heli-coil.

Is the bleeder clogged?
A smear of grease on the threads would do the same thing.

Any other thoughts on transmission situation or what this could be? Thanks btw.

Yes. Your mechanic sounds like a knucklehead. He clearly has no understanding of the 80 Series.
I'd be willing to bet that you have a stripped drive flange on one of the front axles.

Please download the Toyota Factory Service Manual (FSM) from the resources section.

 

[Rev91]

Almost everything you wrote is incorrect. The CDL is in the transfer case and has nothing to do with how the transmission works.

Throttle cable binding or something mechanical not allowing the throttle plate to return to idle.

Useless. Without proper diagnostics you've done nothing. Is the starter solenoid pulling in during this "heat soak" issue?
Is the starter getting the correct voltage from the ignition switch on the small terminal?
Is the motor side of the starter motor making good contact with copper lug on the starter and the positive battery terminal?

Is the bleeder clogged?
A smear of grease on the threads would do the same thing.

Yes. Your mechanic sounds like a knucklehead. He clearly has no understanding of the 80 Series.
I'd be willing to bet that you have a stripped drive flange on one of the front axles.

Please download the Toyota Factory Service Manual (FSM) from the resources section.

1. Really now? All I can say is disconnecting it kept the vehicle going down the road. I don't pretend to know everything.

2. Kinda odd that its an intermittent thing right? Would I grease it somewhere or what?

3. I've got a multimeter. But lets keep the main the thing the main thing (TRANSMISSION). We can revisit this later if still problematic. You're in NJ, so you are probably unknowingly unaware what the added effect of Texas heat has on cars down here and the heat soak issues that can come up.

Heat has an adverse affect on the conductivity of materials--it increases resistance. So the theory makes sense to me. I'm not electrical engr but God's given us all a measure of common sense. To say it's "useless" is probably excessive.

I did some research and others have had solid experience with them so for now "it will do until it won't do". Besides the new cable and heat blanket for ($50 total) is an easy fix without having to do acrobatics over the engine bay or contortionist techniques from the underside tracing down voltage drops.

4. IDK if grease would do that. Call me risk averse but thread sealant sounds better when coming in contact with brake fluid--which eats everything.

5. He's well acquainted with them and he has other customers. Why would you say a stripped drive flange on the front axle? LOL unless you know something I dont know, do you really think I'm that excitable? I'm not sure where you're going with that logic. I rebuilt the front end in 2019 with new seals--I've done that dirty job. Smoke would have to be coming out of the wheels or the diff breather--assuming the inner axle oil seal is no good and the diff breather isnt clogged.

6. Quite the sales pitch for the FSM you sell. Are you going to offer solid input or are you just that into pissing matches? If the latter, count me out of continuing the conversation with you and you can have a nice day. If you'd like to continue respectfully and feel like you have something of value to contribute I'd welcome that too.

 

[Kernal]

Not sure exactly what's happening with your FJ80 (3FE) other than it runs like kerapp, doesn't move sometimes, and a starter that clicks when it gets hot.

The clicking starter IME often means a poor (battery) connection or the starter needs to be rebuilt (at least contacts and plunger). Often better to just replace it with a Toyota Reman or new Denso starter if they're still available for your FJ80 model. The heat reflective blanket seems like a temp fix for failing starter.

These few statements stood out:

"It started to idle high 2000 RPM in PARK and NEUTRAL and 1100 RPM in DRIVE and REVERSE..."

"In Drive it would not move forward regardless of how I pressed on the gas" (Ding, Ding, Ding )

"Why would you say a stripped drive flange" (because he's )

"Gray sweetish light smoke"

"Quite the sales pitch for the FSM you sell" (jonheld suggested the OP download it from Resources)

@jonheld said that because a stripped drive flange can cause an 80 Series to barely move or not move at all (engine revs, vehicle doesn't move). Be sure to always set your Emergency brake until you have this sorted out as a stripped drive flange can also allow the vehicle to roll even with the transmission Park.

The FSM download is free from the Resource section, top of page, once there Search "FSM 1991 FJ80".


A couple of questions:

What did the tachometer show when you gave it more gas; did engine rpms go up in direct proportion (ie solid,steady) to how much you pressed on the accelerator pedal, but the vehicle did not move? Any grinding, slipping, screeching noises?

Did you find the source of the sweet smoke/vapor, and are you still seeing/smelling it??)

 

[jonheld]

1. Really now? All I can say is disconnecting it kept the vehicle going down the road. I don't pretend to know everything.

Which is why I asked you to download the FSM. Every single system is explained in detail with troubleshooting steps along with maintenance for every system.

2. Kinda odd that its an intermittent thing right? Would I grease it somewhere or what?

Have to determine what the issue is first. Is the cable sticky or is there a piece of debris or other crap blocking the throttle plate?

3. I've got a multimeter. But lets keep the main the thing the main thing (TRANSMISSION). We can revisit this later if still problematic. You're in NJ, so you are probably unknowingly unaware what the added effect of Texas heat has on cars down here and the heat soak issues that can come up.

Heat has an adverse affect on the conductivity of materials--it increases resistance. So the theory makes sense to me. I'm not electrical engr but God's given us all a measure of common sense. To say it's "useless" is probably excessive.

I did some research and others have had solid experience with them so for now "it will do until it won't do". Besides the new cable and heat blanket for ($50 total) is an easy fix without having to do acrobatics over the engine bay or contortionist techniques from the underside tracing down voltage drops.

Been an engineer for the last 40+ years. I understand some things. If you're not willing to do the most basic troubleshooting, then just replace the starter.

4. IDK if grease would do that. Call me risk averse but thread sealant sounds better when coming in contact with brake fluid--which eats everything.

Brake bleeders are cheap and available. OEM rear wheel cylinders for the brake drum rears are still available (47550-60120), as are OEM rebuild kits (04474-35100) and the rest of the parts for the rear drum brakes. No need to shortcut items that keep your truck from turning the car in front of you into a bottlecap.

5. He's well acquainted with them and he has other customers. Why would you say a stripped drive flange on the front axle? LOL unless you know something I dont know, do you really think I'm that excitable? I'm not sure where you're going with that logic. I rebuilt the front end in 2019 with new seals--I've done that dirty job. Smoke would have to be coming out of the wheels or the diff breather--assuming the inner axle oil seal is no good and the diff breather isnt clogged.

This is a fulltime 4WD with a locking center diff. Any single "open" in the driveline will prevent the vehicle from moving unless the CDL is locked. You were probably grinding the crap out of the front drive flange and stub axle causing smoke.

6. Quite the sales pitch for the FSM you sell. Are you going to offer solid input or are you just that into pissing matches? If the latter, count me out of continuing the conversation with you and you can have a nice day. If you'd like to continue respectfully and feel like you have something of value to contribute I'd welcome that too.

You're not keeping up with the rest of the class. I pointed you to the resources section which has all the FSMs and EWDs available to download for free.
However if you want the one I sell, the price just doubled.

 

[Marco Lau]

Your tranny is gone....the A440F is hydraulic, so when you let it sit for a while, you were able to get it moving for a bit before it stopped moving forward. Find a used tranny and replace it. My bet is you overcooked your tranny. Put a tranny temp sensor on the oil pan after replacing with a working one. Good luck. At least it didn't happen during a trip like i did...