8000 lb rig, Really??

[patrickfinley]

I come from a backcountry hiking and camping background where the lighter your gear, the happier you'd be on your trip. The credo was, "light is right".

Doesn't this apply to off road vehicles as well. Lets shave down some weight:


RTT 125lbs (setup time 1 min)
- replace with backpacking tent and pads 10lbs (setup 5 min)

Engel Fridge 52 lbs
- drink Scotch instead of beer (what else do we need to keep cold? Milk?) Ok, Cooler and ice if really needed 20lbs

Dual Battery Setup 28 lbs for the extra battery
-replacement take it out 0lbs

Rear Drawer systems 170lbs
- replacement Rubbermaid action packer bins or equivalent 10lbs

Rear bumper with swing outs 200 lbs
- put the tire on the roof 0 lbs

Front bumper 150 lbs
- use stock bumper,let it get scratched up, I know lousy approach angles. 0 lbs

Winch 90 lbs
- remove it, use tow rope and recovery gear 10 lbs

Sliders 90 lbs
- remove them 0 lbs

Roof top rack ARB 120 lbs
- instead use Yakima road warrior rack with tire mount 35lbs

Pelican Cases 2 @ 35 each for 70 lbs
- replacement Rubbermaid action packer bins or equivalent 10lbs

Total for these options 1095 lbs
- replacement items weight 95 lbs

I just shaved 1000 lbs (some items are ballpark) without touching the suspension or tires.

So you loose on departure and approach angles, but how often do you actually hit things or bushwack with the steel bumper? Seems like most of the hundy crew is not hitting Rubicon style trails, here in the US anyway. This is an overland king not a rock crawler.

My replacement gear is not quite as hardcore or sturdy.
However, for 90% of the trails most people hit do you think this weight savings would actually improve off-road behavior? Not to mention, I just saved about 15-20k in parts and a whole bunch of gas.

What do you think?

 

[Mxndrnks]

my thoughts.

I come from a backcountry hiking and camping background where the lighter your gear, the happier you'd be on your trip. The credo was, "light is right".

Doesn't this apply to off road vehicles as well. Lets shave down some weight:


RTT 125lbs (setup time 1 min)
- replace with backpacking tent and pads 10lbs (setup 5 min)
-depends or your use.... they do have a place

Engel Fridge 52 lbs
- drink Scotch instead of beer (what else do we need to keep cold? Milk?) Ok, Cooler and ice if really needed 20lbs
- spending 2 weeks in Mexico and not needing ice to keep food cold, always having ice cold beer = priceless

Dual Battery Setup 28 lbs for the extra battery
-replacement take it out 0lbs
-See above

Rear Drawer systems 170lbs
- replacement Rubbermaid action packer bins or equivalent 10lbs
- could... but it is nice not having to remove all your recovery gear out of the rig after every trip and it "could" look factory so no one knows it is there.

Rear bumper with swing outs 200 lbs
- put the tire on the roof 0 lbs
-you are also improving departure angles and reducing the need to lift a +/- 75lbs tire over your head.

Front bumper 150 lbs
- use stock bumper,let it get scratched up, I know lousy approach angles. 0 lbs
- watching people try and parallel park... I smile watching my front bumper crack their rear lights/bumper = priceless

also see this thread:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/292615-95fzj80-arb-vs-dodge-intrepid.html

search... many more like this out there

Winch 90 lbs
- remove it, use tow rope and recovery gear 10 lbs
-good luck if you are alone. plus my recovery gear is way more than 10lbs.

Sliders 90 lbs
- remove them 0 lbs
- first time I had to "slide" on my sliders, I just smiled knowing how much I saved in reapairs.

Roof top rack ARB 120 lbs
- instead use Yakima road warrior rack with tire mount 35lbs

Pelican Cases 2 @ 35 each for 70 lbs
- replacement Rubbermaid action packer bins or equivalent 10lbs

Total for these options 1095 lbs
- replacement items weight 95 lbs

I just shaved 1000 lbs (some items are ballpark) without touching the suspension or tires.

So you loose on departure and approach angles, but how often do you actually hit things or bushwack with the steel bumper? Seems like most of the hundy crew is not hitting Rubicon style trails, here in the US anyway. This is an overland king not a rock crawler.

My replacement gear is not quite as hardcore or sturdy.
However, for 90% of the trails most people hit do you think this weight savings would actually improve off-road behavior? Not to mention, I just saved about 15-20k in parts and a whole bunch of gas.

What do you think?

 

[d0ubledown]

i think light is light. but heavy...is still heavy. you could overland in a ford escape, or subaru if you really wanted to. those are pretty light vehicles...

This is an overland king not a rock crawler.

theres your answer. its not a rock crawler... nor is it an F1 racer. certain additional weight is just a necessary evil...all part of the game. heavy duty is..well, heavy. thats just the way it goes. apples to apples...

 

[Skidoo]

Interesting thoughts, for a large segment workable.
For those of us that do real expedition trips solo, it might not be safe to eliminate some of the things you mentioned. I have been on trips where it is a 60 mile hike to nearest traveled road, and did not see another person for a whole week off-road. Not crawling, just rough road, sand, snow, washed out sections, river crossings, mud, etc.

Dual Battery - single point of failure (are only good for a few years), start figuring out how to get across 60 miles of desert
Rear bumper - In some soft stuff, can't get cruiser up with factory jack, need a place to use Hi-lift, same with front bumper.
Front bumper 150 lbs & Winch 90 lbs - out by yourself, winch can be a lifesaver
Sliders 90 lbs - In a pickle, need to jack up cruiser from side, without them you are toast.
Roof Rack needed to carry 2 or 3 jerry cans of fuel.

Some other things you did not mention
Skidplates - keeps you from breaking stuff that is needed to get you home.

Expect you would have the following even on stripped down version, right.
Air Compressor - fixing flats
Tools - stuff breaks
Spare Parts, fuilds
First aid kit

10 lbs of recovery gear seems awful light, but if you stay in well travelled areas a Jeep will come along before too long and give you a hand.

 

[patrickfinley]

I know all these things have their place and need. It just seems if you could shave weight down it might really help out your handling and performance.

I look at those Dakar or Baja rigs and there is nothing inside or on them, they are stripped down as light as possible. Granted they have huge support teams, and they are race vehicles.

 

[Skidoo]

Yes lightweight would make a number of things better, so you raise a good point, but a lot of that weight is for your safety as you get more and more remote.
The question you need to ask yourself is how far away is help or how likely is someone to come along to help. In Dakar or Baja if rig is broken and they are injured, help will arrive in less than an hour.
The important aspect of our rigs is not where they can take you, it's that the rig is equiped to get you back when Murphy bites your butt.
I am not heavy because I want to brag I have the heavest rig or I like how it rides, it's because I want to GET BACK to be able to brag about where I went.

So if help is minutes away or will come by in the next hour, all you need is a Subaru, candy bar and a quart of water, leave the rest of the crap in the garage.
But don't change your plan and go explore something more off the beaten path, because you are then rolling dice with your safety.

you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya...

 

[stinkyfj60]

I look at those Dakar or Baja rigs and there is nothing inside or on them, they are stripped down as light as possible. Granted they have huge support teams, and they are race vehicles.

which is why they are light and stripped down.

 

[Elijah]

I know all these things have their place and need. It just seems if you could shave weight down it might really help out your handling and performance.

I look at those Dakar or Baja rigs and there is nothing inside or on them, they are stripped down as light as possible. Granted they have huge support teams, and they are race vehicles.

This would not work for the wheeling we do. For a road trip, it might. For 3 or more days in the backcountry, definitely not.

I would recommend 'to each, his own'. What you think might work for you will not work for everyone else's needs and wants.

 

[3rd Cruiser]

My replacement gear is not quite as hardcore or sturdy.
However, for 90% of the trails most people hit do you think this weight savings would actually improve off-road behavior? Not to mention, I just saved about 15-20k in parts and a whole bunch of gas.

What do you think?

What do I think? To each his own.

I may be stating the obvious, but here goes anyway.

Does Desert run need all the stuff he carries and has added on to his truck? Heck yeah, if that is what works for him in the type of offroading he does.

The beauty of the 100 series is that it can be whatever you want it to be. Comfortable long distance or local mall cruiser. Yep. Pretty capable rock crawler. Yep. Or anything else in between.

For me, sliders, frnt and rear bumbers and a lift are mandatory for what I use my cruiser for. My trips arn't long enough yet, to justify a fridge/freezer and a rooftop tent places too much weight up on top. But thats me. The problem is, that all of this adds weight. But necessary weight to meet my needs.

So, an 8000 # cruiser, really? Yes, if that is what it takes to meet your particular needs.

 

[Carl L]

I agree that Cruisers are perfect exploring vehicles for multiple people with a lot of gear on long excursions. I would not sweat the weight at all and would far rather have appropriate food, water, fuel, recovery and tire supplies. For shorter, more demanding trips I'd suggest a SWB Wrangler or Defender with a winch and at least two vehicles. As Elijah says, to each their own.

 

[patrickfinley]

I guess when I see videos or hear stories of VW Westfalia's, Volvo's and Subaru's on the Imogene trail in Colorado it makes me wonder if people are way overbuilding for the trails they are riding.

I guess there's no right answer here. Some are overbuilding while others are taking their rigs to hell and back again. Their gear is what brings them back.

 

[patrickfinley]

I suppose that's what is so nice, it's versatility.

 

[re_guderian]

Just remember, it only takes one - ONE - "I wish I woulda" to totally ruin your day, week, life and/or wallet...

 

[patrickfinley]

Just remember, it only takes one - ONE - "I wish I woulda" to totally ruin your day, week, life and/or wallet...

On ounce of prevention....err I guess 128000 ounces.

 

[3rd Cruiser]

Hey, don't pick on the cruiser owner's with "overbilt" trucks. I love them. They help keep the volume up and hopefully the prices of our cruiser goodies down. Vendors only make stuff based on demand.

So here's to the overbuilders and lifted mall cruisers

 

[Topmounter]

You have to do the cost-benefit analysis and see where (and if) you're willing to compromise. On pavement, if fuel economy and handling are a concern for me, then slowing down a bit is usually the most logical and effective answer. Off-road, I'd be more concerned about packing your gear in such a way that it doesn't become a projectile, keeps your center of gravity low and doesn't screw up the F/R weight balance.

 

[r2m]

Four things:

First: having used to ride/race road bicycles, and that these kind of people can be obcessed with weight, some will ride with nothing, meaning no spare tube, pump or even a patch kit, and wait for someone to come by and loan (read: give) them what they need to get them going. Because cyclist are like off roaders, they are very friendly and love to be able to help.
But you shouldn't take advantage of that good will and go where you shouldn't if you don't have the right gear (extra weight??).

Second: some of the containers are used to hold down heavy gear like chain, tool boxes, shackles and pullies, securely that if stored in a Rubbermaid® would just tear it apart and then you have all this loose shrapnel bouncing around your cab waiting to break something or hurt someone.

Third: I too, believe in light weight. My last expedition vehicle was a 92' F350 Crewcab 4x4. Lockers, dual batteries, 3 compressors, bla, bla, bla. Just my from bumper from RoadArmor with a 12,000lb winch was over 300lbs hanging off my front end.
And I had my 37" spare on top of my over-the-shell rack which I'll never do again. I ended up rolling my truck in an auto accident and part of the cause was being top heavy. I mean this thing was a PIG. But it was the coolest full sized truck you'll ever see, and by no means a mall cruiser! I'd post some photos, but I think I'm just too new to be able to.

Forth: my partial solution to weight is: building some of our armor out of lighter material! I have never seen a vendor build any bumpers, racks or sliders out of chromoly tubing! Which is much lighter (you need less wall thickness) and it's much stronger! Or how about front and rear bumpers that'd have a steel plate that'd bolt to the frame and then an aluminum plate bumper to bolt to the steel plate?? And you could have your shackles come off from the steel plate that's bolted directly to your frame! You can spec out plate aluminum to be as thick to equal the strength of mild plate steel used in bumpers and I'd be a heck of a lot lighter!!

Just some gorp to think about....

 

[anthonycds]

...better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

 

[re_guderian]

Just remember, it only takes one - ONE - "I wish I woulda" to totally ruin your day, week, life and/or wallet...

On ounce of prevention....err I guess 128000 ounces.

I'll give you an example... It's not rock-crawling at all. Eight years ago I went by myself on a trek to drive from the AZ/Mexico border to the AZ/UT border on 4WD trails and dirt roads. No rock-crawling whatsoever. In hindsight, going solo was stupid, but I follow the old Boy Scout motto of "Be Prepared" pretty well. I had 2 spare tires, gas, water, food for a month, tools, shovels, high lift jack, 3' iron pipe confused: - but best tool I own), and most of all a mountain bike for back up transpo... In one week I saw less than a half-dozen other cars.

I ended up driving at night on the Apache San-Carlos reservation east of Young, AZ. Total and complete B.F.E... I was going about 15 MPH when I took my eyes off of an innocent dirt road for just a flash, and ran my driver's side tires off the road indicated in picture 1. Instantly flatted both tires and bent the front rim. No lockers, trailer hitch buried and both DS tires spinning. That was 9PM. By daylight, I had managed to get myself back on the road. I had to use the indicated tree as an anchor point. If you're wondering if that's within the 100 ft. of winch cable I had, it isn't. I had to shackle the cable to a 30 ft, 30,000 lb strap, which barely reached the 6' tree saver around the tree. If you're wondering if my carb float floated at the angle I was at enough to keep my truck idling to charge the battery while I winched, it didn't. But the highlift with bumper attachment helped. I also used the highlift and the 3' iron pipe to un-invert my shackle and get my leaf spring back to where it would "kind-of" spring. It's all about getting home... Without extra "weight" I would have waited DAYS for someone to come by and help, maybe even longer. Because I had a steel front bumper with a winch, and was dragging a trailer full of crap, I was able to spend a glorious AZ night getting unstuck. That was pretty much the end of my trip (1/2 way), but I made it home under my own power.

 

[joelev]

See, I love stories like this, especially as a noobie to anything that isn't getting a truck stuck in the Back 40 and walking back to the house to get a cousin to pull me out with a tractor.

It would be cool to have a thread that is "How I Got Unstuck", wouldn't it?