3" Drop Brackets for J-springs

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Wow, sounds like you got a good night sleep Eagle. Just so you know, not this issue, but the one after of 4WD toyota owner magasine is going to have a big section including the before and after of our 4" suspension kit. We did the lift on David Z's Fzj80.


Side note, I really dont like when this stuff comes down to Slee vs Man-A-Fre, I write this almost everytime we talk about suspension. Both of our companies have different approaches to different things, and the customer should decide what will work best for him.
 
Actually Steve I think he mentioned the plates I designed. You might have missed them but there was a thread on them. Unlike your solution and that of Slee's, mine HITS the mark because of tuneability. They start out as blanks and then you introduce the amount of caster you need for your particular need.

That thread is a little old and some of the info is incorrect as I've moved forward with them in a few key areas.
 
Well Hoss, this thread developed from another so maybe you don't see any connections.

Also, springs are springs so sticking them on any number of trucks will result in different "inches" of lift. That's why it won't be 3" or 4" or whatever. If you'd installed a bunch of springs or seen and measured the "lift" on a bunch of 80s you'd get that.

Also, I live in SoCal too, family is in PA, WV and OH so I've wheeled my truck and driven it there numerous times with wife, kid, dog, etc as well. I lived with it in TN and wheeled it there too. Every year we go back to CO where we lived and my daughter was born and wheel it there and in So UT on the way there and back. Oh, and it's my only vehicle so I drive it for work too mostly on the highway then on job sites. So what?

My experience with drop brackets is what Man-a-Fre and Steve-O has posted. I read it with interest. I suppose Steve doesn't post this stuff for advertising but to generate interest, comments, and possibly derive new ideas. This is a discussion and I think I've brought up valid points on the short-comings of the drop brackets (1. lower clearance, 2. relatively non-adjustable, 3. frame mounts vs. axle mounts). He seems to do just fine defending the good points of the system but it would still be nice to see some numbers of what the caster was before the drop brackets and then put some J-springs, spacers, etc and check the caster again to see what effect the drop brackets had. Also, it would be nice to see some wheeling pics or anecdotal info about wheeling a really rocky trail where under body clearance was an issue. How does it do? Do the drop brackets really act as sliders, etc. This HAS been discussed before in previous threads so I guess I just wait for something NEW to be introduced.

Since this was not supposed to be a brand loyalty thread I never brought up Slee's stuff or compared MAF's stuff to anything except maybe when I mentioned Rick's plates. I have run the truck completely stock on road and trails to the point I destroyed the running boards, then ran an OME lift (2.5") with no caster correction bushings, then ran that with CC bushings, then added spring spacers, then went to taller springs, then added adjustable panhards, then added adjustable rear uppers, then added slotted adjustabel caster slots in the front of the front control arms, then added CC bushings to the rear of the front control arms, then added 6" springs, then added Outback AWR control arms with adjustable length, then added spring spacers. So whose brand am I trying to hold up and say is best?

I think I'm skinning the cat in plenty of ways and don't mind seeing other ways but you're still driving around on a stock suspension piping in here like you know MAF's kit is the cat's meow. It truly might be and I'm not going to say otherwise but I just want to have someone buy it, install it, and then let's go wheeling :cheers: :bounce2: Isn't that what it's all about? Well other than the hokkie pokkie....

BTW, lay off the caffeine :grinpimp:
 
Steve-O said:
Wow, sounds like you got a good night sleep Eagle. Just so you know, not this issue, but the one after of 4WD toyota owner magasine is going to have a big section including the before and after of our 4" suspension kit. We did the lift on David Z's Fzj80. .
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I'll be looking forward to reading about it, and for that matter, any other lift options that become available.

[/QUOTE]
Side note, I really dont like when this stuff comes down to Slee vs Man-A-Fre, I write this almost everytime we talk about suspension. Both of our companies have different approaches to different things, and the customer should decide what will work best for him.[/QUOTE]

Steve-O, don't mean to make it a Slee vs. Man-A-Fre deal. It's really a caster plate vs. drop bracket deal, but since one of you makes one and the other makes the other one, you're names get pulled in. If Man-A-Fre offered caster plates, all the facts of what one option gets you vs. the other option would be the same - or if Slee made drops, same thing.

Definately agree, it's up to the customer to decide what works for them, at a price they can afford - again - shades of grey.
 
clownmidget said:
Well Hoss, this thread developed from another so maybe you don't see any connections.
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I know damn well were this thread came from - I started it!!!

clownmidget said:
Also, springs are springs so sticking them on any number of trucks will result in different "inches" of lift. That's why it won't be 3" or 4" or whatever. If you'd installed a bunch of springs or seen and measured the "lift" on a bunch of 80s you'd get that.
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No @&@&@&@&? Ya', I get that, and you're going to have the same variation weither you use non-adjustable caster plates or drop brackets.

clownmidget said:
Also, I live in SoCal too, family is in PA, WV and OH so I've wheeled my truck and driven it there numerous times with wife, kid, dog, etc as well. I lived with it in TN and wheeled it there too. Every year we go back to CO where we lived and my daughter was born and wheel it there and in So UT on the way there and back. Oh, and it's my only vehicle so I drive it for work too mostly on the highway then on job sites. So what?
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You asked why lift a vehicle I'm going to take on 2-3K road trips. I answered.

clownmidget said:
My experience with drop brackets is what Man-a-Fre and Steve-O has posted. I read it with interest. I suppose Steve doesn't post this stuff for advertising but to generate interest, comments, and possibly derive new ideas. This is a discussion and I think I've brought up valid points on the short-comings of the drop brackets (1. lower clearance, 2. relatively non-adjustable, 3. frame mounts vs. axle mounts). He seems to do just fine defending the good points of the system but it would still be nice to see some numbers of what the caster was before the drop brackets and then put some J-springs, spacers, etc and check the caster again to see what effect the drop brackets had. Also, it would be nice to see some wheeling pics or anecdotal info about wheeling a really rocky trail where under body clearance was an issue. How does it do? Do the drop brackets really act as sliders, etc. This HAS been discussed before in previous threads so I guess I just wait for something NEW to be introduced.
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Again - no @&@&@&@&. I know the other thread. This thread was started due to the front drop brackets becoming available in 3" and me wanting to know what was needed to run J's with them. YOU'RE the one that brought up old @&@&@&@&, with nothing new to say.

clownmidget said:
Since this was not supposed to be a brand loyalty thread I never brought up Slee's stuff or compared MAF's stuff to anything except maybe when I mentioned Rick's plates. .
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\

Well, you sorta did. By knocking drop brackets, you insinuate that caster plates are a better option, since right now, that's pretty much the two available options if you don't roll your own.

clownmidget said:
I think I'm skinning the cat in plenty of ways and don't mind seeing other ways but you're still driving around on a stock suspension piping in here like you know MAF's kit is the cat's meow. It truly might be and I'm not going to say otherwise but I just want to have someone buy it, install it, and then let's go wheeling :cheers: :bounce2: Isn't that what it's all about? Well other than the hokkie pokkie....

BTW, lay off the caffeine :grinpimp:
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Uhm. When did I say MAF's kit is the cat's meow? (or not the cat's meow for that matter). I'm pretty sure I started out asking what else was needed with J's and the 3" drop brackets. You wanted to know why anyone would do it. I said cause I thought it was a better compromise for my needs - my need to go to moab, and still have as stock a driving vehicle possible on the street with 3" lift and bigger tires - and my lack of need to be the best off-road by sacrificing that. I'm prety sure I said there was a whole range of grey on vehicle usage. Some people are 5% off - 95% on and want the vehicle to behave like that. Some are 95% on 5% off and want the vehicle to behave like that. Some are 5% off and 95% on road, but are willing to have the vehicle behave like it's built for 95% off road, just to make the 5% time that much better.

You're right on one thing though, ya', my suspension is basically stock, cept for some Mr. Gasket spacers. And I'm even on shorter than stock tires right now, cause I sold my stock tires, and threw some 4 runner rims and tires on so I could put swampers on the Lexus rims. And I don't see how that has anything to do with knowing that drop brackets, that keep the suspension movement and caster changes through the suspension cycle as close to stock as possible on a lifted rig, is going to drive more like stock that a simularly lifted truck with caster plates. That's all simple geometry. Just like caster plates and adjustable rear control arms having more clearance than a simularly lifted rig with bracket drops. It's also simple geometry. And it doesn't change weither I'm running a stock suspension on my personal rig, or flipped front arms with 10" springs.

I'll lay off the caffine when you start understanding simple english and simple geometry.
 
You have GOT to be <30 :grinpimp:

The thread on the drop brackets from MAF began by yellowchaosfj80 when he actually installed the kit :flipoff2:

The Tyler, then yellowchaosfj80, then Riad, and so on. Whatever you want to believe though... :rolleyes:

I brought up the same points about the 3" drop brackets that I did about the 4" drop brackets in case someone that was running the 4" drop brackets or Steve had any new input. Like caster numbers before and after. Like specific spring results (OME 850/863 vs J's).

I don't have caster plates and never had. I didn't insinuate squat, but you obviuosly have a better grip on language, writing, composition and comprehension...

You are still not bringing any type of defensible points to this discussion. That is due primarily to you not having ANY of the solutions to caster, or experience with their effects. When and if you do raise your truck's suspension and actually go about attempting to correct the caster to the OEM specs then please post up your results and methods.
 
I love cat fights.............;)
 
clownmidget said:
You have GOT to be <30 :grinpimp:

The thread on the drop brackets from MAF began by yellowchaosfj80 when he actually installed the kit :flipoff2:

The Tyler, then yellowchaosfj80, then Riad, and so on. Whatever you want to believe though... :rolleyes:
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Nope, I'm over 30.

Ya', I remember that thread, even posted on it. Posted a nice little picture on the thread too so that we could all stop arguing about what "lower than stock" ment.

clownmidget said:
You are still not bringing any type of defensible points to this discussion. That is due primarily to you not having ANY of the solutions to caster, or experience with their effects. When and if you do raise your truck's suspension and actually go about attempting to correct the caster to the OEM specs then please post up your results and methods.
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Which point isn't defensible? The point that you can gain more ground clearance without drop brackets and the same lift, but there are other drawbacks to that method? The point that caster effects how a vehicle, any vehicle handles? The point that what is an acceptable trade-off for one person might not be an acceptable trade-off for another? I'm curious which one of these facts requires me to have driven a vehicle with these mods to prove? I'm truely curious which one of these facts would be proven by me driving a vehicle with these mods. If I drive a rig with caster plates, or don't drive a rig with caster plates, does that change how the caster changes during the suspension cycling? If I drive a rig with drop brackets, does that change the ground clearance? If I drive a rig with 6" of lift and no caster correction does that change weither caster effects handling or not? If I drive with J's and no caster correction at all and I find it is acceptable to me, does that mean that the caster has not changed? Is the world flat cause I've never flown around it?
 
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Fly fur, FLY!.............

:eek:
 
Gee, you're right. I feel like such an ass.

Trying to stick to your thread's initial content then:

Walking Eagle said:
3" Front drop brackets,
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Only if J-springs raise the front of YOUR truck 3"

Walking Eagle said:
Extended SS brake lines
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No, there are applicable Toyota spec as well as aftermarket DOT approved rubber ones. Do a SEARCH

Walking Eagle said:
L-shocks or equivalent.
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Ditto, look under FAQ or do a SEARCH on J-springs and shocks

Walking Eagle said:
Adjustable panards? If doing the 3" drop in the front, wouldn't it be better to drop the panard as well?
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Duh, for knowing so much geometry then why not know the answer to this. The panhard is a fixed length and still attached to your frame and axle so lowering your axle 3" will pull the whole axle assembly to one side. Probably not important for road manners though.

And really, if this is a "private" question for Steve-O and/or specific to MAF's drop brackets then stop posting useless @&@&@&@& that can be read in many other posts and pick up a phone and call Steve-O directly and ask these questions.
 
Steve-O said:
Our SS lines are DOT approved just so everyone knows. If you prefer rubber, we dont offer them but they can be found.
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IMO SS lines will give you a better pedal feel than rubber and for the price it's a good value. However, no matter what you choose, you will want longer brake lines! The rear end will drop farther than the stock line will stretch.:cheers:
 
Mind if I cut in :flipoff2: I know that you ladies are having fun poking holes in eachother's arguments but there is potential for some tech here.

Steve-O said:
I dont think dropping the panhard and not the relay rod will produce more bump steer.
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I have to strongly disagree with you Steve. With the relay rod and panhard traveling in different arcs, movement of the front axle (connect to the panhard) while affect the relay rod, which in turn will turn the pitman arm, which will in turn turn the steering wheel (= bump steer). Just lengthening the panhard is a better option that dropping one and not the other in my opinion, but I do agree with you that the ideal solution would be to return the angle of both to close to stock.

Mini truck owners use modified FJ80 pitman arms because they have less drop and allow for more tie rod/draglink clearance on compression. Knowing this, I wonder if it would be possible to use a minitruck pitman arm on an 80 for MORE drop. All-Pro even offers a pitman arm that is sized for an FJ80 tie rod end?
 
clownmidget said:
And really, if this is a "private" question for Steve-O and/or specific to MAF's drop brackets then stop posting useless @&@&@&@& that can be read in many other posts and pick up a phone and call Steve-O directly and ask these questions.
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Not a private question for Steve-O. It came up on another thread, and rather than take that thread off topic, I started this thread that WAS specific to 3" drop brackets for J-springs.

I had questions about this new 3" drop, so did others on the other thread, this is a forum for sharing information right? If you think what I'm posting is useless, block my posts! Or hell, just don't keep coming back to this thread and reading them.
 
STOP IT!!! All this yelling and math and ideas and debats.... It's all making my head hurt. Screw all of you!!! I'm cutting off my coils and arms and such and going to leaf springs!:flipoff2:

(Sorry, I just feel like I should be a part of this thread because it started in my thread... that and I'm starving for attention.:doh: )
 
I wanted to make sure I was right about how the caster changes through the arc. Turns out I was not correct. I kicked one of our designers off his box and did a little dwg in AutoCAD, and the angle change seems to be the same for drop brackets or not. My bad. It is interesting though that caster plates move front to back 4 times as much as stock or drop bracket.
 
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