2F running hot

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Travis, the coil negative goes to one side of the points, with the other side connected to ground.
The plus side goes to the ignition switch.
If you disconnect the positive, that will disconnect it and prove that the noise is related to the coil or points.
Another thing that you can do is to check it out in the dark and look for arcing. It could also be points arcing if your capacitor is bad. Capacitors are cheap.
 
Travis,

Sorry that your having such a time with all this! Very frustrating!

Definitely some problem with the ignition somewhere of it's ticking. I would encourage you to follow McGrath's advise to check it in the dark for arcing, and then perhaps just replace all of your plug wires and dizzy lead. I have heard that ticking before and it was a bad spark wire. I couldn't find it till one day I grabbed #4 wire for some reason and it lit me up! Just a thought anyway.

Another quick thought... I read a couple of days ago that sometimes a bad head gasket won't show up when your testing for it unless the motor is under load. I read about this on a diesel motor that they were having similar issues with and couldn't find the culprit. I certainly hope that is not the case though- although at this point NOT knowing what it is, is the biggest headache and actually replacing the head gasket might bring you more relief if you knew for sure that's what it was! ;)
 
edwjmcgrath said:
Travis, the coil negative goes to one side of the points, with the other side connected to ground.
The plus side goes to the ignition switch.
If you disconnect the positive, that will disconnect it and prove that the noise is related to the coil or points.
Another thing that you can do is to check it out in the dark and look for arcing. It could also be points arcing if your capacitor is bad. Capacitors are cheap.
Click to expand...

G'day edgjmcgrath,

Thanks for the support! I will try what your a suggesting but im yet to get my head around it lol. So, you want me to remove the + connection to the coil, leaving the -ive and the lead between the coil and distributor in place?

With no +ive connection i would assume nothing would happen at all, the engine would not start and the coil should make no noise as there will be no power supply to allow the coil to charge.

Hmmmm, im in way over my head now!

The capacitor you mention, i assume you are referring to the 'condenser'?

You are correct re: the location of the -ive wire from the coil, it runs down to the distributor and connects under the same terminal as the lead off the condenser. Perhaps something is bad there.

........................................

Ive just come back in from the garage - its 1am here now... and fired the old girl up much to my neighbors delight im sure :)

Looking everywhere i could not find any sign of a spark.

I must say it was my first time poking my head into a running engine bay in the pitch black! Was quite an experience. I didnt touch much, but the highlight was i found that anywhere i touched the lead between the coil and the distributor made the lead glow just a little bit, as did it where ever it came into contact with something else in the engine bay! Very cool!!!

...........................

G'day TTR!

Thanks for the kind thoughts mate, yes this is doing my head in.

As above, i couldnt find a spark and fwiw before buying the new coil today the guy at the auto parts shop let me take a new lead between the coil and distributor and try it out - but the clicking remained thus i bought the coil... I didnt realize the problem could potentially come from one of the spark plug leads? I have my old leads still (ones on the car right now would be 12months old at the most) i guess i could grab one of the leads and one by one try it in place of the spark plug leads and see if the noise goes away.

Just to be extra clear, the noise is coming from the coil. 100% positive about that. Id have thought if a lead was arcing etc... the sound would originate from that area.

Everyday i go from thinking this has to be a head gasket to not... enjoying learning more about the old girls heart but it really really is bad timing so close to Xmas.

My mechanic said the same thing re: the Leakdown test and Hydrocarbon test... He did try and load the engine up (during the hydrocarbon test) but there really is no comparison for the actual loads while driving. He said something along the lines of the Leakdown test pressures are 'X' amount, but the actual pressures during combustion would be 'X' x 'X' so perhaps there is a very small leak that simply does not show up in the above tests.

And here i go once again, im thinking maybe it is head related....... BUT once again, after all this time shouldnt i be seeing some coolant usage, exhaust smoke / steam at startup... condensation under the oil fill cap, contaminated engine oil, contaminated coolant etc..........

BUT how come the cooling system appears to 'pressurize'!!!!!!!!!!! hahahaha, around and around in circles :)

....................

Thanks again guys, greatly appreciate the support.
I will try and update / add some more photos to the trip report tomorrow!

Travis.
 
Several things. Yes, condenser and capacitor are same thing. It's job is to keep the points from arcing. If it was bad or missing, the points would spark (and make a clicking noise) and not last very long. If you can get someone up at 1am, you can take the distributor cap off and watch the points and see if they are sparking.
I've traced enough car noises to know that they don't always come from where they appear to come from. If you disconnect the coil plus and the clicking stops then it will be another data point. The distributor is close enough to the coil to possibly be a source. Another obvious thing to check is that the coil is bolted down tightly. It does generate a pretty good magnetic field when it sparks, so it could potentially move a little bit.

If you still get clicking when the HT wire from coil to distributor (the big one) is disconnected, then it can't be a spark plug wire. That wire sends the spark to the distributor and the distributor distributes it to the spark plugs. So that is an easier test to do.

But in any case, I doubt very much that the clicking is causing the overheating.
If it is the head gasket, it could be a very small problem that doesn't show up until the engine is under load. You're right that usually you see other signs like white smoke or coolant in the oil, but not always. If you're getting desperate, you might want to try something that was recommended to me once by an old mechanic friend, and that is to retorque the head bolts. One by one, loosen them a touch and then torque them to spec. He's had that solve small head gasket problems before-he's seen tons of head gasket failures over the years.
 
G'day ed,

Im really not sure what was going on with the coils (old and new) re: the noise. The coil is mounted on the guard and well clear from any other item, as above even with the HT lead off the noise was still coming from within the coil. Using a screw driver to the ear you could easily pinpoint the noise to the coil, putting the screwdriver to the mounting bolts / the guard, anywhere near by resulted in no noise, it was only audible from the coil. But i think the cause of the noise in the coil was from the points or the condenser for sure.

Late yesterday i started playing around with all the contact points and cleaned them all up with some 1000wet and dry. Rotor, inside the distributor and the points. After doing this, the engine would not fire... I believe the points were the cause. I definately didnt go nuts with the emery paper, i hardly did anything with it to be honest, i was really surprised the engine wouldnt run.

The points felt 'rough' as though they had arced and melted (seriously tiny tiny bit, dont know how else to explain it) My method for cleaning them was to use a screw driver and push the contacts apart, insert little strip of emery paper, let points close then draw the paper out from between them. I did this maybe 10 times with the paper facing one way, then turned it around and did the same to clean the other face. They were dragging in one spot on the paper where the little arc splatter bit was.

To get the engine to fire after this i had to adjust the timing. The gap appeared very small to my eyes, i didnt have any feeler gauges to actually measure them yesterday im thinking smaller then 9thou.

After this it ran ok, but really lacked power.

.................................................

The is the first time id ever touched the points etc. I was up all night reading on here re: Dwell etc... and am seriously kicking myself for buying the basic timing light without a Dwell meter back when my mate worked at the auto store and was paying cost on everything!

I think for now ive just gotten lucky. I basically fitted the new points and as per all of the manuals i have then set the gap at 16thou. Ive never done this before so really wasnt sure what amount of tension on the feeler gauge is right... I just did what i thought then put it all together. I then redid the timing then took it for a drive.

Its ALIVE! I found myself backing off the accelerator because it just wanted to go.

I still wish i could check out the Dwell angle to really get it right, but for now it is once again running as good as it ever has.

Coil noise gone.

AND THE ENGINE TEMPS: (my laser thermometer arrived today!!!)

Blasting around town trying to get it as HOT as i could... by the time id pull over and get the bonnet up these are the sorts of figures i was getting:

Top of the thermostat: 79degC 174F
Bottom of the thermostat: 68degC 154F
Bypass hose: 63degC 145F
Top Hose: 70degC 158F
Top radiator tank: 70degC 158F
Bottom Hose: 48degC 118F

On the spark plug side of the head, between the spark plugs i measured the 'space' between the plugs and got - back to front of the engine between plugs 6 and 5:77degC, between 5 and 4:81degC, between 4 and 3:80degC, between 3 and 2: 79degC, between 2 and 1: 78degC, infront of 1: 77degC (170-177F)

On the exhaust manifolds near where it joins the engine block around 220-240degC, 428-461F

On the intake manifold either side of the carby 70-80deg. 158-176F

Exhaust manifold flange? where the exhaust pipe bolts up - 240degC, 461F

.........................................

Could it have been the points / condenser all along.... god only knows. The timing has always been good, but ive never checked dwell before and still havent... its sure got my attention now! Perhaps purging the pressure from the cooling system has done something also - helped get rid of any air somewhere...?

Im to scarred to say its all better, im sure they head will go tomorrow now.

Travis.
 
Been following this.

Persistence pays off.

Good work Travis.

John
 
Hope that takes care of everything Travis! I'm hoping for the best for ya!

Was the temp gauge reading the same as it had been (high)? Or was it now reading where it should?
 
Thanks again guys.

Everything still seems good. Did about 100km today in the old girl and i stopped a few times to check the temps with the laser thermometer.

Hottest the thermostat housing has read is 80degC, 176degF (top, bottom and top of the radiator all read the same temp or there abouts), this was while cruising down the hwy at 90km/h, 55mph (flat stick! - well not really but thats as fast as i push her)

The stock temp gauge is reading completely differently. Different to how it always has, and different to how its been while it was running hot... mind you im talking a variable of less then 3mm, 0.11inches on the dial.

Over the last few days while i was 'purging' the coolant at full pressure and temperature i started to notice some 'crap' in the coolant. Little (really little almost like little bits of dirty sand, but soft) floaties appearing in the overflow bottle. (Dont get me wrong, im only talking about a small amount of crap), It definitely wasnt there before and the radiator and hoses were new so it must have come from the engine... Perhaps it would be a good time to flush and refill with new coolant, a job for another day!

It could have been some passages were a little blocked too which have cleared, or i was even thinking perhaps the temperature sender unit 'probe' thing might have had a buildup of crap on it that may have now cleared so its reading slightly differently.... who knows.

For the time being ill continue to check the temp's with the laser thermometer and see how it goes, id like to install an aftermarket temp gauge with a proper probe type sender so i can get a more accurate reading on the coolant itself but i think its safe to say right now it is not running hot.

Id hazard a guess to say right now i think its running cooler then it ever has - id say thanks to the new radiator.

Travis.
 
edwjmcgrath said:
Good news. If it were my truck, I'd leave well enough alone and drive it.
Click to expand...

Haha, you read my mind! Thats exactly what i was thinking, after all this i sure as hell dont want to drain the coolant for a 5th of 6th time... knowing my luck she'd start running hot again :)

Travis.
 
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