1990 HDJ81: Starter won't disengage!

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J

jrhaze

Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Threads
17
Messages
115
Location
Edmonton
I have a 1990 HDJ81 with a weird (to me) problem. Once in a while when starting the truck the starter continues to run. When the key is turned off the starter will continue to try to start the truck, to no avail though as the ignition is off. It will crank and crank until I turn the key back to on, at which point is will catch again but the starter will keep running.

To get it to disengage I need to turn the key briefly to the start position a few times. This has fixed the problem sooner or later each time this has happened. Each time I do this it smokes like crazy too, not sure why.

If anyone has any ideas what-so-ever they would be greatly appreciated. I need to get this sorted out, the last thing I need is to mess up the starter because of this, or for this to happen when my girlfriend has the truck . . . she wouldn't even notice it I'm willing to bet.

This is an intermittent problem, it's happened 3 times now. Nothing I can seem to come up with will replicate the problem.

It's a 1HD-T BTW

Thanks in advance,

James
 
time for a rebuild... not worth burning it out or over heating it to the point of a possible fire...

it use to be a joke amongst the racing crowd to run the starter while racing to get a few more rpm out of it.. total BS but you would be amazed at the amount of people that beleived it...
 
Talk to nickw on the board, he had the same problem (his girlfriend was driving the truck then too!).
What I'm thinking it is , is as follows: The starter contacts are welding themselves together in the solenoid switch. I would take the starter out TODAY and cleanup or replace those contacts in the starter.
 
cruiser_guy said:
Talk to nickw on the board, he had the same problem (his girlfriend was driving the truck then too!).
What I'm thinking it is , is as follows: The starter contacts are welding themselves together in the solenoid switch. I would take the starter out TODAY and cleanup or replace those contacts in the starter.
Click to expand...

Yes, this happened to me this winter and this is exactly all I did. No problems after replacing the contacts and the plunger thingy. I have a BJ42 with a 3B engine, but the principle is the same.

If you want to save money, a set of contacts is very cheap. If you want it done right, get a full rebuild as Wayne says.

B
 
I would say it depends on how badly it got smoked. If there was significant smoke then I would expect a shorter starter life (maybe watch for a used one), but in the meantime the contacts will keep you going.
The smoke is the insulation burning off the armature wiring and that's NOT a good thing.
 
Thanks for all the replys! This board is awesome!!

When I said it smoked, I didn't mean the starter smoked, which it didn't. I meant the truck puked a bunch of blackish smoke out of the tailpipe. That wasn't clear on my part.

Where do I go to get the contacts, and what do I need to ask for??

Thanks!!

James
 
Here's the thread from my and others' problem:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=78436&highlight=starter

The ebay store link in there won't help because I don't believe the 1HD-T was ever used in lift trucks etc.

I would actually PM "NickW" to see what he did. Here's the thread from his problem:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=78625&highlight=starter

4wheel auto is in Edmonton and may be able to help, but there were no 80 series starter parts on their website. http://www.4wheelauto.com/

Problem is I have no idea how much cross-listing exists for starter parts, i.e. maybe the parts for the gas 80 starter are the same etc. Just don't know but others with more experience in 80 series and 1HD-T.

I personally would pull the starter myself and take to an auto-electric rebuilder and see what they say. Pulling the accessory saves you money, should be easy (dunno about the 80 series though!)(Disconnect the battery(ies)!).

HTH

Cheers,
B
 
Hello,

Take your stater out today!!!!!! :)
The same thing happened to my truck.
My girlfriend borrowed the truck and did not notice the starter stayed enguaged. It permenatly killed my starter (beyond rebuild). By the time she stopped the starter was glowing, and smoke was pooring out from under the hood. My thread was already posted above. I was lucky it did not start a fire with an open flame. But everything inside the starter burnt. The lithium grease turned to powder!

A new one from Toyota is $1300. I ended up cross referencing it with a Toyota forklift starter. Its the same one and it cost $485 I think (with shipping and tax). Got it out of Toronto.

Either way, take it out today and get it rebuilt. The solidoid contacts are the problem, but do everything why it is out. Take it to someone who is familiar with Denso starters. Deal with this now, don't let it wait.

What happens is, the copper on the solinoid contacts build up. Eventually it stays enguaged. They basically end up welding together so they can't come apart. Some starters they burn away so it does not enguage it all, but these ones build up.

If need be I think Sheldon at G&S has a used one. He found one after I had already ordered my forklift starter.

Best of luck,
Cheers,
Nick :)
 
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Two things I should add:

If your starter is turning a few thousand RPM to get your engine turning 500rpm to start. Then when your engine is turning 2000rpm your stater is going 4 times faster than that. So it will not take long to burn it out. Most other people might not hear it running still. Especially if they are not used to your truck. Our diesels are quite and people would not notice a little added whine. No one would even notice something is wrong until it starts smoking. Which brings me to point number two.

If your girlfriend is driving it (or someone else) and she burns the starter out she WILL feel really bad. And I mean awful. I am sure you have told your girlfirend how much you love it, and how you baby it. She will feel awful if she ever damages the truck. How do you think she would feel if your truck burnt?! If something ever happens, remember to ask how she is doing first before you even ask about the truck. She is more important.

Cheers,
Nick
 
thanks so much nick, I'll take your advice and deal with it ASAP. Unfortunately I won't be able to do it until next weekend, but I will be the only one driving it till then as my girlfriend is still in Africa for a couple more weeks.

I'll start calling around tomorrow to try to find a shop that can deal with it . . .

Thanks for all the help and advice! The starter works fine and starts the truck fine 98 times out of 100 . . . I hope it is still ok and that I don't need to spring for a new one, not a good time for that! (when is it ever?)

I'll keep this thread posted, and thanks again!

James
 
If I may give you some redneck advice (others may shoot this down)---

If you are going to drive it, you really don't know when the thing is going to go into full welded mode and fry itself to the tune of $500 or $1300 or whatever.

I would loosen the negative cable on your battery to the point that you can pull it off by hand but there is still enough contact to run the truck. Do a practice Chinese fire drill once or twice of sitting in the truck, pop the hood, run to the battery and pull the neg cable.

Don't ask how I know this works and may be a good idea...

B
 
Diescipel said:
If I may give you some redneck advice (others may shoot this down)---

If you are going to drive it, you really don't know when the thing is going to go into full welded mode and fry itself to the tune of $500 or $1300 or whatever.

I would loosen the negative cable on your battery to the point that you can pull it off by hand but there is still enough contact to run the truck. Do a practice Chinese fire drill once or twice of sitting in the truck, pop the hood, run to the battery and pull the neg cable.

Don't ask how I know this works and may be a good idea...

B
Click to expand...

X2

Personally I'd park the truck till I got it fixed. Rent a car, take the bus, use your bike, whatever. Nickw's girlfriend is relatively mechanically inclined (she does the work on her own 'Cruiser) and she had problems with Nick's starter once it went into full welded mode.
Turning the key off WON'T shut off the starter if the contacts weld together!
 
well, i know turning the key off won't work, that's the whole premise of this post! :grinpimp:

But I will heed the advice to loosen the neg terminal of the battery, and I will ride my bike to work this week so I will only be using it a couple times before the weekend . . . and if things work out I'll be able to let it sit till the weekend.

Again, thanks to everyone! :cheers:
 
You have 2 negative battery terminals. :)
Keep that in mind.

I imagine a starter rebuild at this point will cost about $100 (maybe more if it has already smoked).
So that is good news. The cheapest new starter (or reman) after is $485. There is no cheaper, trust me I looked. Starters can be had cheaper out of Oz, but shipping ( & duty & brokerage) gets you. Only other good option would be central america. Cruiser_guy or Tapage might be able to help. But shipping will still be expensive. Then you will still want to rebuild it.

Best of luck,
Nick

BTW: As cruiser_guy said, my girlfriend is very mechanically inclined. One of the first times I met her she just finished changing her master cylinder out on her cruiser. Her dad and her restored a FJ55 and put a turbo 3B in it. :) She is a smart girl.
 
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well the starter is out. For anyone reading this with a similar problem the starter was easy enough to pull out. The hardest part was locating the top nut without knowing where to look . . . not a big deal. All in all, 1 nut on top, 1 bolt on the bottom, and 2 wires, teh big one on the bottom and a small one that disconnects with a clip.

There is a shop in Edmonton that will be rebuilding it tomorrow, I am hoping they can get it done in 1 day . . . she semeed to think it was probable.

All in all this is a nice mini-job to get me warmed up for the BEB's, probably next weekend . . .

Thanks again everyone!

James
 
So, is the fastest way to deal with this problem before it starts, to have the starter rebuilt? Or is there some simple maintenance that can be done to prevent this problem before it happens?
 
I didn't have to have the starter rebuilt i don't think, all they did was replace the contacts and clean it up/inspect it. If I were to do it over again i would buy the contacts myself (apparently about $15) and put them in - much cheaper tha the $100+ "rebuild".

All in all if you wanted to do the preventitive maintenance that's the route I would go.

James
 
Thanks. That's very helpful. I will add that to my seemingly endless list of things to do. It's like a hydra. Every time I lop something off the list, another pops up. :)
 
Here are two options, your a poor student and have no money, fix the contacts now as I have seen on this board and a few on the island go through this.

I will pull the starter for the 15 minutes it may take, clean it throw it on the bench pull it apart and replace the contacts, have a set of brushes handy to replace. Throw the armature in a lathe and smooth off the contact surface or in my case the poor mans lathe is s drill and piece of emery cloth.


Fellow in Victoria went through this last week, calls me on his cell and gets me to listen to the noise.

I gave the same advice, shut it off and tow it home or too a shop, he asked if it could be driven up to Nanaimo in this condtion I ANSWERED NOOO.........

Cost to him was 300.00 bones for a complete rebuild.

Rob
 
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