100 series pads and new OEM rotors
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100 series pads didn't fit on my 80 today.
I have no service records from the PO, bought it at 200,000 miles. I've done the front axles (new everything). Wheel bearings working great, repacked once, looking good. I'm 99% positive that everything is assembled to spec. (Can't be 100% positive, since I am human after all...)
I bought new rotors, 100 series pads, and caliper rebuild kit from CDan. The inboard pad didn't fit, and the outboard pad had some extra room. (No anti rattle pads.) Since a few others have noted a problem, I'd like to offer my hypothesis that this problem is caused by reman'd calipers. Let me explain futher.
I don't know what OEM calipers look like, I've only seen the ones on my truck. But, the left and right weren't a perfect match. Subtle differences, for example in how the two caliper halve's fit together. Also little differences in the machining around the piston bores. In addition, the piston bores were quite corroded on one caliper, but not on the other. Finally, 6 of the pistons were the same, two had different marks on the backside. None of these little differences are likely in OEM parts, thus I conclude my calipers are aftermarket or reman'd.
The rebuild kit worked great though, so that was a positive.
Based on the range of years that this mod works for, it seems that OEM parts, installed to spec allow the 100 series pads to work. There can't be variations within OEM parts, so it seems to me that the variation must be in non-OEM parts. The only non-OEM parts in my case are the calipers.
I considered putting a shim between the caliper and the knuckle. Moving the whole caliper inboard would have allowed me to fit the 100 series pads. I didn't do this because I wasn't sure if it could come back to bite me, and it's the brakes after all. Curious to hear any opinions as to whether this would have been a good idea or not.
I ended up putting in 80 series pads, because this is a DD, and it's got to be on the road tomorrow at 0-dark thirty. It works fine, but I'm bummed that I couldn't do the 100 series mod. It does trouble me that the two calipers are different. I have a thing about symetry, and - again - it's the brakes after all. Maybe I'll end up getting OEM calipers down the road...
I have no service records from the PO, bought it at 200,000 miles. I've done the front axles (new everything). Wheel bearings working great, repacked once, looking good. I'm 99% positive that everything is assembled to spec. (Can't be 100% positive, since I am human after all...)
I bought new rotors, 100 series pads, and caliper rebuild kit from CDan. The inboard pad didn't fit, and the outboard pad had some extra room. (No anti rattle pads.) Since a few others have noted a problem, I'd like to offer my hypothesis that this problem is caused by reman'd calipers. Let me explain futher.
I don't know what OEM calipers look like, I've only seen the ones on my truck. But, the left and right weren't a perfect match. Subtle differences, for example in how the two caliper halve's fit together. Also little differences in the machining around the piston bores. In addition, the piston bores were quite corroded on one caliper, but not on the other. Finally, 6 of the pistons were the same, two had different marks on the backside. None of these little differences are likely in OEM parts, thus I conclude my calipers are aftermarket or reman'd.
The rebuild kit worked great though, so that was a positive.
Based on the range of years that this mod works for, it seems that OEM parts, installed to spec allow the 100 series pads to work. There can't be variations within OEM parts, so it seems to me that the variation must be in non-OEM parts. The only non-OEM parts in my case are the calipers.
I considered putting a shim between the caliper and the knuckle. Moving the whole caliper inboard would have allowed me to fit the 100 series pads. I didn't do this because I wasn't sure if it could come back to bite me, and it's the brakes after all. Curious to hear any opinions as to whether this would have been a good idea or not.
I ended up putting in 80 series pads, because this is a DD, and it's got to be on the road tomorrow at 0-dark thirty. It works fine, but I'm bummed that I couldn't do the 100 series mod. It does trouble me that the two calipers are different. I have a thing about symetry, and - again - it's the brakes after all. Maybe I'll end up getting OEM calipers down the road...
Mine aren't fitting either. Just finished birfield repack and new rotors, but 100 pads no-go. All races are completely in, preloads all check out, no shims. Pads seem too big to fit. Pistons appear fully retracted, they are at least flush with the boots, if not slightly recessed. The outer pad will just barely slide in, but rotor rubs it. Plastic backing of the pad is practically touching the outside metal wall of the caliper. The inside isn't close to fitting.
Looking at the slot at the bottom of the caliper that the rotor passes through, there is approx. 1mm of space between rotor and caliper on the inside and approx. 2mm on the outside.
I purchased at 87k. PO/original with thorough records, lived on a steep hill and had alot of brake work done over the years, but no record of calipers. However, aftermarket calipers is the only explanation I can come up with at this point. Both calipers are stamped with "S13WC" on the engine side, on the outside, the DS is stamped with "35", and the PS "25".
Does anyone know if these are the markings of OEM or aftermarket? I'll be checking with Dan in the morning.
Looking at the slot at the bottom of the caliper that the rotor passes through, there is approx. 1mm of space between rotor and caliper on the inside and approx. 2mm on the outside.
I purchased at 87k. PO/original with thorough records, lived on a steep hill and had alot of brake work done over the years, but no record of calipers. However, aftermarket calipers is the only explanation I can come up with at this point. Both calipers are stamped with "S13WC" on the engine side, on the outside, the DS is stamped with "35", and the PS "25".
Does anyone know if these are the markings of OEM or aftermarket? I'll be checking with Dan in the morning.
touching the rotor is not a problem. It will not effect driving. I had to tap in my 100 series pads with a mallet and they were very tight on the inside and they contacted the rotors, but they went in and they were fine. Did you try removing the caliper and fitting the pads and caliper at the same time?
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=7874&highlight=100+caliper
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=7874&highlight=100+caliper
semlin said:
My inner pad was too thick by over 1mm. I tried tapping it in, but was destroying the pad. Pistons were fully retracted, pressed in on the bench during the rebuild, no fluid back in them.
Besides the temptation to put in a shim, I was also tempted to grind the pad thinner. But I wasn't sure I could do it really flat, and wasn't sure what the consequences would be.
However, I take consolation in the fact that at least the brakes work better tonight than last night.
I tried that first and there appeared even less room. But I might not have had the pistons fully retracted at that point...can't remember. Good to know that it is ok if the rotor rubs. But if its all OEM, shouldn't they fit withour rubbing?
Were yours noisy in the beginning since they were rubbing?
Were yours noisy in the beginning since they were rubbing?
There should be clearance behind the piston for it to retract further so that the pads do not bind on the rotor when the brakes are not applied.
One possibility is that the current replacement factory rotors are slightly different than previous versions, such that 100 series pads, which were previously a tight fit are now a too tight fit.
One possibility is that the current replacement factory rotors are slightly different than previous versions, such that 100 series pads, which were previously a tight fit are now a too tight fit.
I wasn't able to get the pistons back any further, than about flush with the boots, slightly recessed. When the outside pad is in, it is up against the rotor and the boots. Is this what others have experienced? Even if this is ok, the inners are still way off.
Hey guys, don't get too wound up if the pad isn't ground 100% flat. You'll have reduced braking on that one caliper for a couple of miles but the friction surfaces will make a perfect match of pad to rotor pretty quickly. Unless the surface you grind is GROSSLY out of whack you're not even going to notice.
Shimming the caliper isn't the best idea as you'll be adding to the stresses on the bolts under braking. The amount would be pretty minimal but with the shims in there you're changing the way the stress is handled between caliper and the mounting surface and introducing the possibility of unwanted movement.
Shimming the caliper isn't the best idea as you'll be adding to the stresses on the bolts under braking. The amount would be pretty minimal but with the shims in there you're changing the way the stress is handled between caliper and the mounting surface and introducing the possibility of unwanted movement.
Rich said:
I suspect that the current pad part number, 04465-60220, may possibly be a bit thicker than the original 04465-60151. The 60220 replaced the 60151 last October. I have located a set of 60151 pads and as soon as they arrive I will compare them to the 60220 pads that are the only game in town at the moment.
D-
I just did this on Saturday with new rotors...and no problem.
Not that that helps you or anything, but it wasn't even a very tight fit.
Not that that helps you or anything, but it wasn't even a very tight fit.
Did you use 60220 pads?
Sorry, I guess that would have helped. I did use the 60220s, but the rotors were "OEM" from Marlin Crawler. I say OEM because they say they are from the same manufacturer that makes them for Toyota in Japan, but I didn't measure them before putting them on. So I guess I'll just go back to being no help at all. 
Were you able to measure them Dan?
Were you able to measure them Dan?
I will have the 60151 pads on Wednesday. The rotor has not changed so it's either the pads or some calipers are not retracting fully.
If you got yours after mid October they were 60220's.
D-
D-
UPDATE:
I was able to obtain two sets of 04465-60151 pads that were left in one of the PDC's. They are virtually identical in appearance and are exactly the same height as the 04465-60220 current offering. The only aparent difference is the finish appearance of the paint on the backing plates. They are even the same color. The backing plates are both marked "N B K" and "PN540H-FG". The only other difference is the 60220 has an instruction sheet enclosed.
So, the tight fit thing has got to be something else.
D-
I was able to obtain two sets of 04465-60151 pads that were left in one of the PDC's. They are virtually identical in appearance and are exactly the same height as the 04465-60220 current offering. The only aparent difference is the finish appearance of the paint on the backing plates. They are even the same color. The backing plates are both marked "N B K" and "PN540H-FG". The only other difference is the 60220 has an instruction sheet enclosed.
So, the tight fit thing has got to be something else.
D-
I ended up grinding my 100 pads approximately 1/16" to get them to fit. They were still slightly contacting the rotor, but not enough to create any noticeable friction. I could barely wiggle the pad between the rotor and caliper, and all pads were contacting the boots. All pistons were at least retracted to the boots if not a little recessed in.
If pistons were indeed fully retracted, than the only other explanation I can figure (now that Dan has ruled out size difference between changing part number), is an aftermarket caliper?? Maybe I'll try giving my PO's mechanic a call to see if there's any record of caliper replacement.
Truck is braking much stronger than before, and without any squeal.
If pistons were indeed fully retracted, than the only other explanation I can figure (now that Dan has ruled out size difference between changing part number), is an aftermarket caliper?? Maybe I'll try giving my PO's mechanic a call to see if there's any record of caliper replacement.
Truck is braking much stronger than before, and without any squeal.