Awesome. I'm in South AL and have an 04 LC, but I can make the drive if needed!
100 Series NAV Delete – Standalone HVAC Solution (OEM+)
- Thread starter Anarchy
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At $1100, I’m on the fence leaning toward no. I’ve already got a Teyes unit that controls climate, albeit not well. Tough sell for me to spend twice as much on my AC controls as I did on the Teyes unit. At one point you had thrown out the idea of a “less polished” option. I could probably get onboard closer to $600. Still following this thread with a lot of interest.
- Thread starter
- #523
I understand the price concern. Not targeting this response at you, Jon, just speaking generally. Teyes and others can spread engineering, tooling, software, manufacturing and support costs across tens of thousands of head units and hundreds of vehicle applications. We simply don’t have those economies of scale with a niche subset of 20-year-old land cruisers.
If somebody can build this to the same standard, at this volume, retail it for $500 and support it long-term, they’ve solved an economics problem I haven’t. If the right manufacturing partner comes along who can genuinely scale production, maintain the standard and materially lower the cost, I’d be very open to that conversation.
On the development side, in-vehicle testing is going extremely well. Since the first test, temperature synchronization, a runaway issue, mode display behavior, system on/off logic, AUTO behavior, and recirculation behavior have all been corrected/updated. Serial firmware loading has also been added through the controller for easier firmware updates and serviceability.
Testing is now down to very small edge cases. Things like an occasional missed temperature-knob detent, matching Toyota’s exact MAX COLD/MAX HOT behavior, and a subtle rhythmic flicker in the display when the headlights and factory dimmer are active. Things most owners might never even notice, but they are still being chased down because good enough isn’t the target.
The production harness is being worked through in much more detail now, including exact branch lengths so nothing is stretched or unnecessarily bundled behind the dash, along with proper protective sleeving/abrasion protection, strain relief and retention. The goal is for it to sit cleanly, stay secure, and survive years behind the dash without rubbing through, pulling on terminals or working itself loose.
On the mechanical side, a newly vapor-honed 3D-printed piece arrived today, and is being evaluated to push the prototype closer to a proper OEM-style appearance and texture.
As for timing, the goal is to finish the remaining tasks over the next couple months and move into the first production run this fall/winter... if production takes a little longer than planned, this becomes less of a product launch and more of a case study in how far one man can take a minor inconvenience.
If somebody can build this to the same standard, at this volume, retail it for $500 and support it long-term, they’ve solved an economics problem I haven’t. If the right manufacturing partner comes along who can genuinely scale production, maintain the standard and materially lower the cost, I’d be very open to that conversation.
On the development side, in-vehicle testing is going extremely well. Since the first test, temperature synchronization, a runaway issue, mode display behavior, system on/off logic, AUTO behavior, and recirculation behavior have all been corrected/updated. Serial firmware loading has also been added through the controller for easier firmware updates and serviceability.
Testing is now down to very small edge cases. Things like an occasional missed temperature-knob detent, matching Toyota’s exact MAX COLD/MAX HOT behavior, and a subtle rhythmic flicker in the display when the headlights and factory dimmer are active. Things most owners might never even notice, but they are still being chased down because good enough isn’t the target.
The production harness is being worked through in much more detail now, including exact branch lengths so nothing is stretched or unnecessarily bundled behind the dash, along with proper protective sleeving/abrasion protection, strain relief and retention. The goal is for it to sit cleanly, stay secure, and survive years behind the dash without rubbing through, pulling on terminals or working itself loose.
On the mechanical side, a newly vapor-honed 3D-printed piece arrived today, and is being evaluated to push the prototype closer to a proper OEM-style appearance and texture.
As for timing, the goal is to finish the remaining tasks over the next couple months and move into the first production run this fall/winter... if production takes a little longer than planned, this becomes less of a product launch and more of a case study in how far one man can take a minor inconvenience.
No offense taken at all. Totally get it. I'm in the process of building & selling some one off electronics. It's tough to scale (I'm printing off a single 3d printer at my desk LOL). I imagine the real issue has got to be the custom board work you need.
I'm not out, just contemplating. You are doing some kick ass work. I'm in awe.
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It sounds like this will be an extremely polished product and worth the price tag for those of us who have been searching for a solution for years (well, one that is better than, "it mostly works"). That said, I'm still not sure when the time comes if I can justify $1100 price tag. Then I have to find a nice head unit too. I wouldn't regret making the purchase, but damn it's going to be hard to pull the trigger on a "nice to have" even though it would probably be the nicest mod I could make to my LC.
Any idea how long you will offer the product for? Or should I be prepared for a limited run/group buy situation?
Anyone comparing this to a Teyes is insane, completely different aspects here. $1100 is still cheaper and this will be much less labor than sourcing non-nav parts overseas and replacing.
Why is that insane? Both take control of the the factory HVAC system. This system is a lot more elegant and looks more like an OEM product but what am I missing?
Because Teyes is the headunit, you get what you get, and lots of us here do NOT like it.
This is a HVAC controller much similar to the post 03 non-nav replacement. It’s all OEM parts sourced from oversea, it’ll set you back 1200-2000 in parts alone. And you didn’t even get to the wiring mess.
but correct me if I'm wrong, the Anarchy unit is but one element - albeit a game-changing element - of the system. We still need to buy a head unit, TBD-sourced bezel, wiring harness, brackets, etc. So really, this is a $2,000++ system. Right?
Parts alone for OEM HVAC delete only are 1200-2k…. Also no headunit, also many hours of splicing.
I would rather spend $ on a well made product from a Mud member then support a cheaply made Teyes unit that still doesn’t work with LCs.
I would rather spend $ on a well made product from a Mud member then support a cheaply made Teyes unit that still doesn’t work with LCs.
This is my understanding as well. So realistically I would expect $1500 at a minimum with an inexpensive double din unit and we’ll see what’s available for a dash kit.
Crazy to me that people are nit picking the product and complaining about price. Its insane to me someone would even go out of there way to make this let alone manufacture and sell it. I am still just in amazement that Anarchy is doing this, its a real service to the community.
As far as pricing goes I guess it just depends on how much you are into your truck and your place in life. I purchased Slee Formed Step Sliders for my 100 Series and those were $1,750.00 shipped.........this seems like a bargain compared to that lol There are people out there that are looking to buy the best or get exactly what they want and this is for them. People looking for a cheap, bargain fix to the head unit issues, maybe just buy a BT45
As far as pricing goes I guess it just depends on how much you are into your truck and your place in life. I purchased Slee Formed Step Sliders for my 100 Series and those were $1,750.00 shipped.........this seems like a bargain compared to that lol There are people out there that are looking to buy the best or get exactly what they want and this is for them. People looking for a cheap, bargain fix to the head unit issues, maybe just buy a BT45
Formerjeeper
SILVER Star
This is my daily driver and I hope it will be for another 200K+ miles. I appreciate Anarchy tackling this and it will make my LC way more finished, modern and functional. Absolutely fine with the price and just eager to see the timeframe to adapt to a 2005 LC.
Count me in 
$1100 bucks is not out of the realm of reality. When I did the Nav delete, I had to source the parts from Pakistan, ship them, buy all the stuff to go along with it. One particular connector is extremely hard to find and the 3d print file is s***. The price turned out to be similar to this option. If ANARCHY is offering this as a plug and play, that worth its weight in gold because the NAV delete is a little bit of a hassle since you have to make the proper harnesses and find the proper wires to mate to. You are really hitting the easy button with this.
Another thing, if you are just tooling around town and are listening to podcasts, the Teyes unit is probably okay. I had one and that prompted me to do the Nav delete because it is such a piece of s*** for off roading and I don't have an android phone. I hated it.
This project is really the best way to go if you want a quality head unit with better features, quality and output. If I hadn't done the Nav delete, I would go with this. I might still buy one of these just to have if the other system craps out.
IMHO, if you are complaining about the price, then you probably aren't off roading since everything is expensive on these things, as most of you know. That's cool. To each his own. Ill never tell another man how to play with his pee pee or how to spend his money.
This project is definitely worth what ANARCHY is asking. It is correcting a problem Toyota should have never created.
This is my mantra: Good gear ain't cheap and cheap gear ain't good.
Another thing, if you are just tooling around town and are listening to podcasts, the Teyes unit is probably okay. I had one and that prompted me to do the Nav delete because it is such a piece of s*** for off roading and I don't have an android phone. I hated it.
This project is really the best way to go if you want a quality head unit with better features, quality and output. If I hadn't done the Nav delete, I would go with this. I might still buy one of these just to have if the other system craps out.
IMHO, if you are complaining about the price, then you probably aren't off roading since everything is expensive on these things, as most of you know. That's cool. To each his own. Ill never tell another man how to play with his pee pee or how to spend his money.
This project is definitely worth what ANARCHY is asking. It is correcting a problem Toyota should have never created.
This is my mantra: Good gear ain't cheap and cheap gear ain't good.
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100% worth the price. Add the cost of time and effort to make it in such small numbers and that price is a bargain.
Consider Factory retrofit costs around 1500-2000+ plus wiring and installation and this is really a no brainer. look at double din radio prices, they're through the roof. if alpine, kenwood and pioneer can't keep costs down, how can one guy?
i'm excited to try this out in my second 100. My other already has the oem retrofit.
Consider Factory retrofit costs around 1500-2000+ plus wiring and installation and this is really a no brainer. look at double din radio prices, they're through the roof. if alpine, kenwood and pioneer can't keep costs down, how can one guy?
i'm excited to try this out in my second 100. My other already has the oem retrofit.
I haven't seen anyone complaining or nitpicking. At worst, there's some discussion that the Anarchy component is a component, so comparing it to (more) compete setups isn't apples to apples, i.e. we're looking at a $2,000-2,500 all-in swap.
I'm stoked. I've been using a Grom for years... and have been ready to ditch it for years.
I'm stoked. I've been using a Grom for years... and have been ready to ditch it for years.
Do we know @Anarchy ‘s day job is? I’m assuming engineer of some sort, but just curious. I’m impressed with this project and will likely be a buyer
- Thread starter
- #539
Small update:
Prototype #1 is in my LX for continued real-world testing and firmware refinement. The next step is getting Prototypes #2 and #3 assembled and installed in additional vehicles.
Testing across a second and third truck is important because this is where the last mechanical and installation details start to show themselves. Actual installations expose things like locating-tab alignment, panel curvature, clearances, retention, harness routing, and the small tolerance differences from one vehicle to another. The focus is now shifting toward refinement and repeatability: making sure the same hardware can go into multiple trucks, install cleanly, operate exactly as intended, and deliver the same result.
Functionally, the controller is 99% if not 100% complete. If it wasn’t already obvious, the original problem has been solved. The 100 Series factory NAV/HVAC system has officially been defeated.
@willc My day job is unrelated to this. I just prefer to keep that side of my life private and keep the focus here on the project.
Prototype #1 is in my LX for continued real-world testing and firmware refinement. The next step is getting Prototypes #2 and #3 assembled and installed in additional vehicles.
Testing across a second and third truck is important because this is where the last mechanical and installation details start to show themselves. Actual installations expose things like locating-tab alignment, panel curvature, clearances, retention, harness routing, and the small tolerance differences from one vehicle to another. The focus is now shifting toward refinement and repeatability: making sure the same hardware can go into multiple trucks, install cleanly, operate exactly as intended, and deliver the same result.
Functionally, the controller is 99% if not 100% complete. If it wasn’t already obvious, the original problem has been solved. The 100 Series factory NAV/HVAC system has officially been defeated.
@willc My day job is unrelated to this. I just prefer to keep that side of my life private and keep the focus here on the project.
Random question @Anarchy but you weren't at SAS this year, were you?