WTB new or NOS 2f Igniter and coil or DUI dizzy (2 Viewers)

[LAMBCRUSHER]

Oh, as to compression.
I'm pulling 15"hg vacuum at idle which is about normal for 7000' elevation.
When I whack the throttle open and quickly let off, it drops about 4-5"hg.

Again all within spec per:

dynamic compression v static compression....you trouble is cause by lack of the static type...which can't be seen with the engine running...

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

read the gauge when cold start cranking without ether...that will give you an idea of how much pull the cold block can put on the carb...

 

[freepowder]

well now that we have answers to most of our questions, I will stop repeating them...maybe there is something going on with the spark, but I doubt it's the ignitor. if the ignitor were going, your truck would pop and fart intermittently the whole time it was on...if there were a problem with the ignitor, you wouldn't have a decent running truck after getting it to start. this is a vacuum signal issue...

-hope is not checking is not ruling out too tight valves... No but checking the behavior of the in-cab vacuum gauge tends to rule it out.
-consistent spark- it is not an ignitor problem Ok, so then. . .
-Not being a fuel problem does not make it a spark problem Ok, so then. . .
-This bit also say."it's not spark"...unless everything you put in after the symtpoms were exhibited were already dead- possible, but unlikely Ok, so then. . .
-if the rig stays running one started, THEN IT IS NOT BAD SPARK Ok, so then. . .
-didn't ask [about headers] caus eyou hadn't mentioned it. 10th post down page 3: "Headers, exhaust installed about four months ago. Header/intake gasket has since been replaced and torqued as that was the last mod."
Also everything I've got on the rig is listed in my signature line.

Do you think there could be a problem with the spark?

So the answer to my "Ok, so then. . . " would be a vacuum signal issue?
I don't recognize the term. What would that look like on the gauge?

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

as I said, your condition is due to the static compression of a cold engine. possible causes are barely too tight valve lash, sticky rings, vacuum leaks. I suppose weak spark, but then you haven't tried a known working coil, but my thought is that due to the consistency of spark, and claimed decent running post coaxing to start, that it is not an ignitor issue...maybe a coil, maybe a bad ground could cause a weaker spark...whaere is the timing set to? if it gets to freezing over night, maybe there is some condensate caught in the pcv that is freezing it open till the engine runs for a bit...can you plug a block heater into it overnight and try a "cold" start w/o ether?....have you tried capping the vacuum sinks to rule them out(gauge, advancer, and I guess no choke breaker...is there a half full glass in the cold mornings? I totally get frustrated...and since you have the dui on the way, I am curious to see what happens...your gauge might not tell you if the valves were in a magic place where they're too tight to cold start, but not tight enough to make any noise on the meter when warm...when my ignitor went, it just cut out several times on the way to work. I cursed the carb and then she shut off...like I'd turned the key off, and wouldn't start back up...I had what I would have called a weak spark, but mine was also inconsistent to non existent as I cranked away to find the dead spot..Cruiserfj45 came to the rescue- literally right then johnny on the spot drove to me with a spare ignitor and it fired right up...Like I say, it went from A spark, to some spark, to no spark...your issue isn't like that- knowing ymmv- I get that, but you are stubborn...check the valves.

 

[freepowder]

as I said, your condition is due to the static compression of a cold engine. possible causes are barely too tight valve lash, sticky rings, vacuum leaks. I suppose weak spark, but then you haven't tried a known working coil, but my thought is that due to the consistency of spark, and claimed decent running post coaxing to start, that it is not an ignitor issue...maybe a coil, maybe a bad ground could cause a weaker spark...whaere is the timing set to? if it gets to freezing over night, maybe there is some condensate caught in the pcv that is freezing it open till the engine runs for a bit...can you plug a block heater into it overnight and try a "cold" start w/o ether?....have you tried capping the vacuum sinks to rule them out(gauge, advancer, and I guess no choke breaker...is there a half full glass in the cold mornings? I totally get frustrated...and since you have the dui on the way, I am curious to see what happens...your gauge might not tell you if the valves were in a magic place where they're too tight to cold start, but not tight enough to make any noise on the meter when warm...when my ignitor went, it just cut out several times on the way to work. I cursed the carb and then she shut off...like I'd turned the key off, and wouldn't start back up...I had what I would have called a weak spark, but mine was also inconsistent to non existent as I cranked away to find the dead spot..Cruiserfj45 came to the rescue- literally right then johnny on the spot drove to me with a spare ignitor and it fired right up...Like I say, it went from A spark, to some spark, to no spark...your issue isn't like that- knowing ymmv- I get that, but you are stubborn...check the valves.

I have a magnetic pan heater on it, been plugged in through most of this, not sure it's working though.
It has a known working coil in it. It runs. I tested the resistance, it's within spec, the only one of the 4 that did.
The float bowl level is right in the middle before I start and after it starts.
When my old igniter went, there was no warning, it just quit. Then the truck ran fine with one of the used ones from the junkyard. Then it wouldn't start cold.

It didn't start again this morning. So much for the power of prayer.
It's Christmas. I haven't ordered the distributor. Spending the money on my kids.
Since I'm not going order it until I assess the Christmas damage to the finances:
I'm going to try Jim C's test of spraying some gas down the primary barrel.
If it starts I'll probably rebuild the carb.
If it doesn't start I'll compression check it and if that's bad I'll save up and rebuild the engine.
If the compression checks in spec and doesn't start I'll adjust the valves.
If it doesn't start I'll pull all the vacuum lines and plug them.
If it doesn't start after that I'm going to figure it's a spark problem and order the DUI distributor.

You win.

 

[Mace]

since when has this been a "you win/ I win situation"

I think you need to reevaluate why you ask questions on this forum. People are not trying to beat you, they are trying to help you..

 

[freepowder]

Ok

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

happy thanks givings day!

 

[freepowder]

And a happy Thanksgiving to all that particpated in this thread.

 

[freepowder]

Regarding my original question, "Anyone know where I can get [a stock igniter]?"

Got confirmation from Autozone the 2f igniter is no longer available from them, nor are there any left in stock.
Beno says they're no longer avalilable from Toyota, again no backstock there either. Puts an end to that quest.
Someone had mentioned iginters from other Toyota vehicles that are 2F compatible but I have no other information on that and didn't think to ask Beno. Regardless, it would seem that in the future OE ignitions will become increasingly more difficult to maintain.

As regards DUI ignitions, there seems to be a dichotomy in opinions on these. Some like 'em some don't but much of the discussion seems apocryphal. I've started a DUI review thread (DUI Acutal Owner Reviews) so if you've had one please weigh in on your experience, good, bad or indifferent. Only owners of actual DUI ignitions made by Davis please, no converted GM or other brands. Thanks.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

There are several other companies making ignitors/modules...MSD, Accel, Mallory are some that come to mind...each of these are an ignitor type of module that bypass the OE ignitor, some require use of high performance coils, each should be able to use the stock diz. Spike Strip had mentioned the toyota minitrucks ignitor are compatible....look at Toyodiy to see if the PNs jive...

 

[Mace]

msd (and mallory hyfire) ignitions work fine with the electronic ignition cruisers. I ran them for years.

I would be surprised if the mini ics's had the same part #. But they work fine.

Happy thanksgiving to you amigo. And I hope this works itself out soon!

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2002
Member # 12758
Location: Park City, UT
Posts: 4,698

Hey Sean,
Start small and move up from there... Sounds like you did lose your ignition though, assumming it will keep on turning the engine but it won't fire on. No rough running, hesitation, symtoms of "possibly" firing up...?
1) Make sure all the plug wires etc are all plugged in right... My coil to cap plug would always wiggle loose and do what you are describing.
2) Check cap and rotor but that is probably not it.
3) Most likely either ignitor/coil or the electronic ignition system in dizzy. But most likely coil or ignitor...
4) There is a cheap fix to the ignitor, read below as posted in archieves... Hope it helps Sean...

Also Kurt probably has an ignitor lying around somewhere (if that is where your problem is... And also check your fuses, maybe one of them blew simple problem fixed...

________________________
For the coil and ignitor (for a '78 or later distributor without points) I've used a mini truck coil and ignitor combo, they are a dime a dozen and work just as well as a cruiser setup if not better because they are very water proof. Same wiring colors too if you can find the old ones that should be on your firewall
somewhere, thick black with yellow stripe is the hot, pink is the ground, yellow goes to a tach if you are equipped.

There is also a cheap Chrysler ignitor that works just as well as OEM, Part number through Napa is Napa/Echlin part # TP50, $30 new...

This is from Pirate from a mini truck guy but it is the same setup as a cruiser...

Hope it helps!
Andre


instead of paying for a used ignitor and coil that will probably go out just like the one i had or paying 300$ for a new one i opted for the "easy" gm conversion . like seabass did but instead of using a 1000 ohms resistor and the stock coil i bought a coil for a 1973 chevy truck 350 v8 (or any round coil with negative/positive terminals on it) (11.99 autozone) and a "ignition module" from a 1985 chevy k10 350 v8 truck (14.99 autozone) . your igntion hot wire (or any hot wire if you wanna have a toggle switch hidden some where) goes to the b terminal on the gm ign modu then from term b run a wire to the positive term on the gm coil. then run a wire from the c term on the gm ign mod to the negative term on the gm coil. then the g and w term on the ign mod go to the two wires coming out of the distributor cap. just use trial and error hooking them up, if you hook em wrong it will idle real high and fast rough, if you hook em up right itll run perfect. theres
only two wires so its 50/50 not too hard. soddering would be best on all the new connections along with grease, also on the bottom side of the gm ignition module is metal that is your round to bolt it or wire that to your old ground on the fender .


all this from this thread...http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-land-cruiser/212181-no-spark-help.html

 

[FJ40Jim]

The reason the ignitor is NLA from Toyota is because they never sold any. Why? Because they never fail. I can't remember ever seeing a bad one on a cruiser. They do get cooked in the hot, hardworking engine bay of a V6 4runner automatic, but that's about it for common failures that I have seen. Not saying the running issue is not a bad ignitor, but it would be an amazing coincidence if freep had 4 bad ignitors in his hands.

Wait, no, I take that back. All your ignitors & coils & distributors are bad. Please mail them to me promptly. I'll even pay for shipping, cause I'm a nice guy.

Freep, with a cold engine, try pulling the air cleaner lid off and work the throttle lever, see if the accel pump gives a long, steady squirt of gas into the top of the primary barrel.

 

[freepowder]

There are several other companies making ignitors/modules...MSD, Accel, Mallory are some that come to mind...each of these are an ignitor type of module that bypass the OE ignitor, some require use of high performance coils, each should be able to use the stock diz. Spike Strip had mentioned the toyota minitrucks ignitor are compatible....look at Toyodiy to see if the PNs jive...

Any info on which MSD, Accel, Mallory units work?

There are several other companies making ignitors/modules...MSD, Accel, Mallory are some that come to mind...each of these are an ignitor type of module that bypass the OE ignitor, some require use of high performance coils, each should be able to use the stock diz. Spike Strip had mentioned the toyota minitrucks ignitor are compatible....look at Toyodiy to see if the PNs jive...

Mini truck igniter P/N are different and the units are quite different physical configurations. They sell for a over $500.
Looking into MSD and others now.

 

[Mace]

A solution looking for a problem..

Listen to Jim..

 

[freepowder]

The reason the ignitor is NLA from Toyota is because they never sold any. Why? Because they never fail. I can't remember ever seeing a bad one on a cruiser. They do get cooked in the hot, hardworking engine bay of a V6 4runner automatic, but that's about it for common failures that I have seen. Not saying the running issue is not a bad ignitor, but it would be an amazing coincidence if freep had 4 bad ignitors in his hands.

Wait, no, I take that back. All your ignitors & coils & distributors are bad. Please mail them to me promptly. I'll even pay for shipping, cause I'm a nice guy.

Freep, with a cold engine, try pulling the air cleaner lid off and work the throttle lever, see if the accel pump gives a long, steady squirt of gas into the top of the primary barrel.

The one that I believe was bad has been sacrificed on the altar of the GM module conversion as described above in Lambcrusher's post. That didn't work, still not sure why, still have that. Tried it in all this, no joy.

Anyway. No you can't have my igniters 'cause I'm still not sure what I'm going to do here. If I keep the stock system I'll be wanting them for spares. Besides, I paid through the nose for 'em at the local junkyard.

At this point having been firmly informed many times by many people it isn't a spark issue (I can be taught) I'm considering igntion options for the future when stuff inevitably begins to break down in a spare-part desert.

I'm gonna play with the accel pump and a squirt bottle of gas as you described before but there's been some other stuff going on yesterday and today that precluded it. Other stuff ongoing extraneous stuff so it may be a bit before I get 'round to that.

In the interest of saving time and bandwidth when I do both of those things, what is the next step in all the various potential outcomes. I have my theories but I'm doubting my troubleshooting abilities rather strongly just now and would hear it from you.

Now for something completely different: I might be able to lay hands to an OE 2F dizzy. What's the going rate for used distributors?
What would it cost to have that re-curved for total de-smog use?
How much additional for a full rebuild if needed?
This in the interest of the spare parts situation to which I alluded earlier.

Thanks.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

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[LAMBCRUSHER]

Napa want 375 for the 88 pick-up ignitor....

 

[freepowder]

Import Direct Ignition - Ignition Control Module
$139.99 Each

Didn't think about aftermarket. Lots better price, any idea if the quality is comparable?

Thanks.