Oil pan arch seal

[alia176]

I tackled re-sealing the famous arch seal this weekend. This project is a little involved but fairly straight forward. While I had the engine raised, I took the opportunity to replace the motor mounts. I'm an ameteur so I'm sure there're more efficient ways to do this! I'd say this to be job.

It went something like this:
- wash the underside of your vehicle thoroughly at a car was. You'll thank yourself later!
- park on top of 4x4 or 6x6 wood or a set of ramps. Just make sure that you can still reach everything w/o tiring yourself
- wear safety glasses to prevent oil & crud going into your eye
- drain engine oil
- remove the oil filter (facilitates access to motor mounts)
- remove hood (mark everything!)
- remove the radiator cooling fan from the water pump and push it aside
- raise the engine as much as possible. An overhead hoist stays out of your work area the best.
- remove the two nuts per motor mount x 2
-remove two connectors (one is oil low level, the other one is for a sensor pickup)
- remove the front sway bar completely. You can keep it in there but just ain't worth aggravation or head bonking!
- remove the lowest (smaller) oil pan. The longer you let the oil drain, the less mess for later!
- remove LOTS of bolts and four nuts from the higher oil pan. Make careful note of what bolts go where. I used a old shipping box to place the bolts as they came out of the engine. There're several lengths/sizes/grades of bolts.
- make sure to remove the four bolts that are INSIDE the large oil pan.
- work the FIPG loose by working the larger oil pan. This will take some elbow grease and maybe some heat from a propate/butane torch. Resist the urge to use a chiesel/screwdriver/pry bar to separate.
- work the large oil pan out while paying close attention to the oil pickup screen.
- Place the large oil pan such that the oil pickup screen isn't distrubed.
- clean off the old sealant on both surfaces.
- Apply new sealant or FIPG and wait for it to become less tacky. If it's too tacky, then you'll smear as you install the large oil pan.
- Reverse the above steps for installation
- Clean off old FIPG from the smaller oil pan. There're grooves in this oil pan that needs to be cleaned out well before the new FIPG is applied.
-Install the smaller oil pan
-Add oil, filter, tighten motor mounts, install fan, hood, etc.

Gotchas to avoid:
-Protect the oil pickup screen
-while cleaning old FIPG, be sure to pick up bits and pieces from the large oil pan as you're working. I used a shop vac.
-keep the dust level down while everything exposed. Don't sweep the shop floor!
-have assitance for hood removal. It's not heavy but can be unwieldy!
-I try not to use air tools to remove the bolts, don't want a broken bolt head here!
-have LOTS of clean rags. This is not the place to be reusing old, dusty rags.
-pay close attention to the torque values of the various bolts. Don't confuse IN-LBS with FT-LBS numbers in the FSM.


Pics to follow. Let me know if anything seems unclear to you!

Ali

[alia176]

Close up views of the leaky areas of the pan.

Notice how I'm resting the foreward end of the oil pan on 2x4s to protect the oil pickup screen.

[Beowulf]

Thanks Ali, nice write-up.

Did you have a motor mount break?

-B-

[alia176]

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Thanks Ali, nice write-up.

Did you have a motor mount break?

-B-

Thanks.

No, the mounts are intact However, Dan and I noticed that the engine seems to rotate more than normal upon starting and power braking. I'm also chasing another issue and that is the movement of my Transmission shift lever under load. The tranny *maybe* is moving fore/aft.

Upon visual inspection, both mounts seem fine but I bet the driver side is softer. At least I hope so anyway

This was a classic *while I'm in there...* move!

Ali

[LX_TREME]

Nice, Im going to do exact same thing within 3 weeks from now.When you mention replace the engine mounts.How many are they? Also do you have part # for it? Got more pics?

[alia176]

Originally Posted by LX_TREME

Nice, Im going to do exact same thing within 3 weeks from now.When you mention replace the engine mounts.How many are they? Also do you have part # for it? Got more pics?

there are two motor mounts. Have Dan quote the price/pn info. I can't remember what I paid since i bought them long time ago. I tend to store up on parts and then do a big project. Unfortunately, I tend to lose smaller parts this way

I don't have any pics of the motor mount project but it went somethig like this:

- have an assistant
- remove motor mount nuts (four total).
- remove radiator fan and push it aside
- loosen four bolts per motor motor mount brackets x 2. On the driver side, removal of the oil filter will improve access to the bolts
- raise engine
- start on the passenger side. One person moves the engine from side to side while another person is playing with the motor mount from underneath. This alone took about an hour or so! Install new motor mount.
- driver side - remove the tranny oil dipstick bracket (push it aside )so that you can back out one of the four bolts out of the block.
- move the engine to the driver side while the assistant works the motor mount out. Install new motor mount.
-tighten the motor mount to engine bracket nuts (four total)
-Torque everything to spec.

[terry.mc]

GAACK.

I might just buy a lower miles cruiser

Nice writeup, thanks for taking the time to document it for the rest of us.

[LX_TREME]

Well i just made quick phone call to my guys (local Toyota parts) now according to what they said it would be better if i also replace the trans mounts? so 3 totals?
- 2 engine mounts and the part # 12361-17011 -$ not cheap.
- 1 trans mounts also the part # 12371-66030 -$ more than you thought.
(P.S)- sorry i dont quote/ post the parts price here.

So is that right?

[alia176]

I don't know if the p/n s are right but you do need three total for the vehicle.

[alia176]

Originally Posted by terry.mc

GAACK.

I might just buy a lower miles cruiser

.

Yes, you can do that but she's gonna be a high mileage cruiser eventually and guess what?

This is a routine PM that needs to be done just like the head gasket r/r. Unless you can stand to see your 80 leak oil for the rest of her life!

Ali

[landtoy80]

WOW, that looks like a lot of work!
I am surely glad that the RotellaT Syn 5w40 somehow sealed up my arch pan leak, "knock on fake wood dash "

[Rookie2]

What's that hoist setup.. is that steel beam in your garage?

[Riad]

Nice work Ali. So you raised the Engine to replace the motor mounts or that is required to change the seal as well? How does the Arch seal look like? Is it a RTV type material or a gasket? Also is it required to take out the #2/small oil pan to do this job?


Thanks

[alia176]

Originally Posted by landtoy80

WOW, that looks like a lot of work!
I am surely glad that the RotellaT Syn 5w40 somehow sealed up my arch pan leak, "knock on fake wood dash "

Funny you mention that...I looked around after completing the job and not one case of Rotella. I have all sorts of syn 5w30. Off to Wally world I went!

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by Riad

So you raised the Engine to replace the motor mounts or that is required to change the seal as well? Also is it required to take out the #2/small oil pan to do this job?

I'll try to answer for Ali. You must remove the lower oil pan before you can remove the upper oil pan. You must raise the engine slightly to enable removal of the upper oil pan.

C-Dan had to remove the upper oil pan before he could remove the front timing chain cover and therefore had to do all of the steps in Ali's post; plus some.

-B-

[Rookie2]

Originally Posted by Riad

So you raised the Engine to replace the motor mounts or that is required to change the seal as well?

Yes

Originally Posted by Riad

How does the Arch seal look like?
Thanks

?? incomplete sentence??

Originally Posted by Riad

Is it a RTV type material or a gasket?
Thanks

Formed in Place Gasket (FIPG) sealer on both the upper and lower oil pans.

Originally Posted by Riad

Also is it required to take out the #2/small oil pan to do this job?

He's sealing the upper pan arch, so both pans have to come out. There are some hidden bolts under the lower pan, that you have to get to in order to take the upper pan out, so you couldn't just pull them as a unit.


Rookie2

[Riad]

Thank you Rookie2. So that's what FIPG stands for . I wanted to see what this FIPG looks like is.

Thanks

[Rookie2]

Originally Posted by Riad

Thank you Rookie2. So that's what FIPG stands for . I wanted to see what this FIPG looks like is.

Thanks

It looks a lot like 3M weather striping adhesive. Comes in a toothpaste like tube. You just squeeze it on, and it sets up in about 15 minutes, cures within 24 hours.


Rookie2

[lowtops]

alia176,
Great write-up on a job I have been putting off for some time. My driveway is starting to look pretty bad so I plan to do this soon.

I have been thinking this whole project over and have a question. Would it be feasible to just drop the front axle to remove the pan instead of unbolting the motor mounts? I plan on installing a lift in the near future and this would be a perfect way to kill two birds with one stone.

[Rookie2]

Originally Posted by lowtops

I have been thinking this whole project over and have a question. Would it be feasible to just drop the front axle to remove the pan instead of unbolting the motor mounts?

Several comments on this, and in addition a search would yeild others experiences with this item as well.

First off: the 20 plus nicely bulletized items listed above don't do this job justice. It's a PITA. If you've got a "seep" with little to no drip accumulating on the driveway, you're going to be kicking yourself in butt for messing with this once your asses and elbows deep into it.

Second: There's no guarentees it's the pan arch, although percentages have shown it to be the most common out of it vs. rear main seal. I found it really hard to tell by doing the mirror investigation.

Now to answer your question: Everybody that's done this (including C-Dan) has had to raise the motor some to get the pan out. When I did mine, I put the frame up on 3 tons jacks on a very high setting, and dropped the axle down onto 3 ton jacks on the lowest setting, then removed the DS sway bar bracket, and that was enough to get it to clear (this took me about 6 hours to find the right combination). I did not need to remove the fan and fan clutch, although it's probably not a bad idea. Loosening the fan shroud, and jacking the motor about a 1" to 1 1/2" is enough (mine started lifting the whole front end at this point, I'm assuming the bell housing was engaging the body so there is a limit to the amount you can lift the motor). If you've using a standard engine hoist, there's no need to remove the hood.



Rookie2

[Doc]

Shouldn't you be holding a baby or something cleaner than a dirty old oil pan?

You need a cleaner hobby dude.

[Darwood]

Originally Posted by lowtops

Would it be feasible to just drop the front axle to remove the pan instead of unbolting the motor mounts? I plan on installing a lift in the near future and this would be a perfect way to kill two birds with one stone.

From my understanding (both from what others have said and after visual inspection) the problem is that the bar that braces the panhard mount is in the way which is why the engine needs to tilted up. This bar is welded to the frame and as such isn't going anywhere.

[alia176]

Sorry, I was unavailable yesterday for your questions! This baby thing sure is time consuming

On to answer some questions that may not have been answered:

Rookie2
>What's that hoist setup.. is that steel beam in your garage?

Yes, that's an I beam in my garage. Mighty helpful for doing this type of work!

Darwood
> From my understanding (both from what others have said and after visual inspection) the problem is that the bar that braces the panhard mount is in the way which is why the engine needs to tilted up. This bar is welded to the frame and as such isn't going anywhere..

I know others have chimed in on this particular point but here's a picture detailing the problem child, aka the BAR! This *&^(^% bar doesn't move with the front suspension. Simply raising the engine as far as it'll go is enough to give you enough clearance to work the oil pan #1 (large oil pan) out. You DON'T have to drop the front suspension if you don't want to. Also, this is dependent on your lift/tire size.

> Would it be feasible to just drop the front axle to remove the pan instead of unbolting the motor mounts? I plan on installing a lift in the near future and this would be a perfect way to kill two birds with one stone.

As others have stated, no it's not that easy! However, having a 3" lift wtih 35" tires did give me some wiggle room under the vehicle. Still, I placed both front tires on a stack of 4x4 and 2x4 pieces of wood to allow more room to maneuver myself under there. Depending on your lift and tires, you may opt to drive up on a set of ramps before starting the tear down process. If I did that, I would have to reach very high to access the engine and that makes for a tired upper body.


Riad
>Is it a RTV type material or a gasket?
check out the picture! As they say, it's worth a thousand words.

Doc
>Shouldn't you be holding a baby or something cleaner than a dirty old oil pan?

Can't wait for warmer weather to arrive so that the Pack and Play can be in the garage and I don't have to keep running into the house to take care of the baby! I'll have a complete toxic diaper disposal and changing station in there!

Cheers,

Ali

[Riad]

Thanks Ali. I got it. I wonder if my local dealer has this FIPG. I guess I have to call Dan if they don't.

EDIT: Just called the dealer and they have it. Man I guess I got lucky this time. They usually don't have %#&*. I guess I'm gonna pick it up tonight and start thinking about dping this next weekend.

[alia176]

Riad,

PM me if you have any issues/problems with this project. Plan on a long day! You'll need an inch-lb torque wrench for the smaller 8mm bolts. My old FIPG didn't want to release so I used a ratcheting strap to put constant tension on the oil pan while I worked it loose.

Good luck.

Ali

[Rookie2]

Originally Posted by alia176

Rookie2
>What's that hoist setup.. is that steel beam in your garage?

Yes, that's an I beam in my garage. Mighty helpful for doing this type of work!

Nice! It's hard to tell how you've got it supported. Is it bearing on masonry walls each end, or are you somehow hanging it from the floor or roof system above?


Rookie2