Gear noise after locker install

BJ 71 · 11-17-09, 08:02 PM

I recently had an ARB locker installed in the rear diff of my BJ74. The original 4.11 ring and pinion were used and a crush sleeve eliminator kit was installed.

I now have very noticeable gear whine. Is this normal? Should I be concerned? Will the noise decrease on it own? What steps can I take if any to quiet it down? Or should I be returning it to the installer to re set up the gears?

UpsideDown · 11-17-09, 10:35 PM

Gear noise is not normal on gears that have been set up properly. The pinion depth is likely not set correctly.... pull the gears out, check the pattern and see what the pattern is like.

Some gears, when old or when they have been allowed to run for a long period of time out of adjustment, will make some noise... however, if your gears were not making noise before, they should not be making noise now.

The hard spacers are much better than the crush sleeves, especially with lockers, but they also have to be set up a little more carefully than when using a crush sleeve.

~John

ringpinion.biz · 11-18-09, 02:09 PM

If you didnt have noise before, and you are using the same gears, you shouldnt have noise now. When do you hear the noise?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJ 71

I recently had an ARB locker installed in the rear diff of my BJ74. The original 4.11 ring and pinion were used and a crush sleeve eliminator kit was installed.

I now have very noticeable gear whine. Is this normal? Should I be concerned? Will the noise decrease on it own? What steps can I take if any to quiet it down? Or should I be returning it to the installer to re set up the gears?

BJ 71 · 11-18-09, 03:15 PM

OK i guess I need to back the story up a bit......

What happened was I gave a few shots of grease to the drive shaft before a trip to the mountains (not knowing it was basically full from previous services over the years). Drove fine on the way there but after a rather "flexy" trail, I thought something sounded a bit off on the slow drive back to camp. However I had also put a whole in the muffler and squished the tail pipe a bit, so I atributed the noise to that.

My girlfriend drove the cruiser the 2 hours home the following day. She mentioned after she got there it was quite loud compared to normal and most noticeable on deceleration. After a quick inspection I discovered the pinion yoke was sloppy (crush sleeve collapsed completely I assume due to the solid driveshaft created by too much greese). I took it to Toyota and their fix (unkown to me at the time) was to tighten the pinion nut, which of course did not cure the problem and simply set the pinion depth to shallow and made the gear noise even louder on the 10 minute drive home.

That is when I pulled the centre section out and sent it off to be fixed properly. I decided to add a locker at this time and the shop suggested the crush sleeve eliminator bushing as well. Upon disassembly they said the gears were still in good shape and re usable.

Sorry for leaving out these important details in my original post but I thought that since the gears were still re usable it was not relevant.

The noise is now fairly consistant but more noticable on acceleration starting at about 20mph and obviousley getting louder at higher speeds.

lshobie · 11-18-09, 03:48 PM

Stop driving it and get it fixed - pull it and see what is going on.

Jimmy B · 11-18-09, 05:38 PM

Any chance there might have been some damage to the rear output on the transfer as well from the solid driveshaft??

Radd Cruisers · 11-18-09, 06:54 PM

Tightening the nut does not change the pinion depth as the depth is set by shims. Doing up the nut - which the techs at the Stealership should know - will not hold torque and will probably over-preload the bearings.

The pinion bearings don't like to be too tight.

The driveshaft should be conservatively greased the spline and be relieved of grease from time to time by removing the grease nipple and collapsing the shaft to squish it all out if it's not doing that on its own.

Still, if the gears are noisy, they need to be removed and checked. It sounds as though they were not set up properly.

~John

BJ 71 · 12-09-09, 09:16 PM

So I pulled the 3rd member and sent it back to the installer. Turns out that the diff had been dropped on the companion flange when it was shipped back to me after the ARB install.

Besides bending the companion flange, the installer says the gear noise was a result of the impact, which changed the pinion depth. Does this seem like a likely result?

BJ 71 · 12-09-09, 09:27 PM

The new companion flange does not sit the same. Their is a much larger gap between the deflector ring and the diff housing. The deflector ring is also a larger diameter, which adds to the amount of gap. Should I be concerned that more dirt and debris will get in easier and possibly damage the seal? Maybe I should I get a different companion flange or possibly see if the machine shop could straighten the old one?

ringpinion.biz · 12-10-09, 08:42 AM

As long as the seal does not interfere and preload is set properly, the dust shield on the flange is nothing to worry about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJ 71

The new companion flange does not sit the same. Their is a much larger gap between the deflector ring and the diff housing. The deflector ring is also a larger diameter, which adds to the amount of gap. Should I be concerned that more dirt and debris will get in easier and possibly damage the seal? Maybe I should I get a different companion flange or possibly see if the machine shop could straighten the old one?

BJ 71 · 12-10-09, 08:51 AM

Thanks for the reply concerning the dust shield / deflector ring. How can I be sure their is no interference with the seal and the preload is set properly?

Toyota Kijang · 12-10-09, 09:29 AM

*sigh*

I hate it when this happens.

This is one of the disadvantages of putting aftermarket parts. But fortunately ARB is a famous brand for high quality aftermarket especially its Air Locker so there is nothing wrong with that.

So this goes back to the person who installed it, which I bet you anything, he is a self-proclaimed off-road expert. Right ? Be careful ! There are so many self-proclaimed offroad experts out there, they are phoney ! They are fake ! They are no pros. They are jack ass mechanic. Not all mechanics are created equal.

If I were you I would go back to that shop and try to get your money back or sue them in small claims court. That's it. Don't let them lay their fingers on your vehicle again. If they can't get it right the first time what makes you think they can get it right the second time ? Your Cruiser is not an experimental mouse. It's a valuable item. Don't let them use it as a means for their trial and error.

This is why I refuse to pay 60 grand for that phoney 70 Series pick up aka jeep brute. You just don't know what could go wrong with that thing, you know it's a fabricated jeep. No jeep is ever worth that much to me anyway never never ever ! I like OEM Toyota. I am an OEM type person because I trust Toyota.

just two cents

BJ 71 · 12-10-09, 11:54 AM

Toyota kijang, although I can relate to your frustration when dealing with some after market products and some shops, I think your frustration has blinded you to what is going on in this thread.

The ARB product has nothing to do with the issue. I was however questioning the replacement companion flange and deflector ring. I have included a pic showing the manufacture of this.

The gear noise turned out to be a result of a severe impact during shipping, as evident by the bent companion flange. I have also included a pic of the point of impact on the flange mounting surface.

My last questions about preload and seal interference were in response to ringandpinion.biz comments and were for my knowledge and peace of mind, so that I could verify a correct setup before reinstalling

UpsideDown · 12-10-09, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toyota Kijang

*sigh*

[...]

If I were you I would go back to that shop and try to get your money back or sue them in small claims court. That's it.

[...]

just two cents

Such a blatant example of the American mentality to solving things... how sad to see it here on 'Mud, and in the 70s section no less.

Usually a phone call will solve things, as will a civil conversation. It seems to have solved things here...

~John

ringpinion.biz · 12-10-09, 03:16 PM

As for interference, it would be obvious. Ive used the flanges like you have there, and had good luck.
Really you'd be fine with no dust shield at all too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJ 71

Toyota kijang, although I can relate to your frustration when dealing with some after market products and some shops, I think your frustration has blinded you to what is going on in this thread.

The ARB product has nothing to do with the issue. I was however questioning the replacement companion flange and deflector ring. I have included a pic showing the manufacture of this.

The gear noise turned out to be a result of a severe impact during shipping, as evident by the bent companion flange. I have also included a pic of the point of impact on the flange mounting surface.

My last questions about preload and seal interference were in response to ringandpinion.biz comments and were for my knowledge and peace of mind, so that I could verify a correct setup before reinstalling

lshobie · 12-10-09, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpsideDown

Such a blatant example of the American mentality to solving things... how sad to see it here on 'Mud, and in the 70s section no less.

Usually a phone call will solve things, as will a civil conversation. It seems to have solved things here...

~John

We have a saying here, "If you like my work tell everyone, if you don't like it tell me and I will make you happy."

Go back and figure out what happened and straighten things out. A diff should not be dropped - that is not right.

Radd Cruisers · 12-10-09, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lshobie

We have a saying here, "If you like my work tell everyone, if you don't like it tell me and I will make you happy."

Go back and figure out what happened and straighten things out. A diff should not be dropped - that is not right.

Have to totally agree with you.

pradocruzer · 12-10-09, 07:21 PM

Beep, Beep, Beep back this up!! "Besides bending the companion flange, the installer says the gear noise was a result of the impact, which changed the pinion depth. Does this seem like a likely result?"

Not at all. Pinion head+pinion depth shims+inner pinion bearing race+solidspacer+ solid spacer preload shims+outer pinion inner race+flange+ thick washer+pinion nut. It is completely solid from the pinion head to the flange. You could hit it with a 100 pound sledge and it is not possible to change pinion depth. I wish so, that would make it a easy to set up gear patterns.
Droping the third In my opinion could shock load the taper roller bearings pounding small roller bearing dents into the inner and outer races destroying bearings in a very short time. This will not change pinion depth.
When you received the diff back was there there paint showing the gear pattern on the gears??
I'am sorry this diff set up turned out so badly.
Years back I set up a diff and did it wrong. Within two weeks I was doing it again all at my cost. I sucked it up like a little princess, had some help from professional diff builder and have been building them right since. I would have a little chat with the diff builder. If no results maybe a fifty fifty split on costs??
A sloppy diff build maybe fine if it's only on road driven and you can get a few miles on it but the minute you pound the hell out of it off road it will sing and fail shortly. The tin shield on the flange won't be a problem. I wouldn't worry unless your a major mud bogger. Lots of flanges don't have dust shields at all.
Good luck

BJ 71 · 12-12-09, 03:49 PM

I did a test pattern on the gears before installation. The pattern does not look very good to me. Any thoughts if I should install these gears with this setup?? Or get them set up again?

pradocruzer · 12-12-09, 08:45 PM

Wow. I don't know what to say!! I hope you didn't pay for that. That is not a good gear pattern at all. Your call on installing that. I wouldn't. Are you paying for these attempts at installing gears? Send the pictures back to the installer and get your money back. Might be a good idea to find a better gear installer. Go to Toyota Gear Installs and check out professional gear installs that is how they should look.

Take care