Rear Hub issue (1 Viewer)

[beejay42]

Today while grabbing some tools out of my truck I noticed some grease splattered around my rim- and then I noticed the missing bolts on my hub
Every single bolt was finger loose. I tightened up the bolts that were left- tightened them a hell of lot which pulled the whole face plate thing in- and drove home.

here is the offending hub

and the grease

and here is the hub on the other side.

Questions-

I feel like a fool for forgetting about it and not looking further into it- but when I bought it I noticed that there were different bolts on one side than the other. I also noticed one loose bolt which I tightened.
What might be going on here with the different sorts of bolts on each hub?
And... err... what is going on here in general I've tried searching here, and googling but haven't got much of an insight into these hubs yet- plus I am buggered from work and covered in paint and gap-filler.

Finally, as I just got a roadworthy test done in order to register this truck- should I be suspicious that the mechanic left bolts loose? As I said, every single bolt on this side was finger loose. It couldn't have taken much longer for before they all fell out- and the plate came off.

oh yeah, and finally- is this ok to temporarily drive like this- I am doing a job a decent drive away at the moment and have to be there first thing in the morning...

Thanks for any advice (while I continue to google and search)

 

[vk7ybi]

The axle flange should be fastened with studs, cone washers, flat washers and nuts.. Looks like the two spare holes that are drilled and tapped in the axle flange have been plugged, to aid in future removal.. As to why the studs have been removed and changed to bolts is anyones guess.. Some do it because it speeds up chaning broken axles on the trail.. Some think theyre stronger.. Some do it when all the studs have come out and been lost.. Two causes of loose nuts I've seen are failing to retorque after the initial torquing, when a new gasket has been installed.. Secondly, bad hub bearings.. Excessive play in the hub can cause loosening of the nuts on the studs..

I'd suggest you check the wheel bearings preload.. Pull the axle shaft, jack the weight off the wheel so its clear of the ground.. Give it a good shake, holding each side of the tyre, see if it sloppy.. If so, might be a good idea to check the condition of the bearings and replace as necessary.. Otherwise source some replacement studs, cone washers, flat washers and nuts.. Torque spec on the nuts is 31Nm.. If the bearing preload isnt right, you might be able to get by with resetting it till you have time to fix it properly..

 

[beejay42]

thanks heaps for that vk7ybi,

here is a zoomed in and sharpened version of the other hub- does this look like it is normal- ie stud and nut fastened?

This is what had me confused- that one side (the bad one) appears to be bolted from the outside (with a couple of odd bolts), and the other one seems to have nuts on the outside...

I have no garage so I can't tinker with it tonight. I'll see if the last drive home loosened the bolts at all in the morning...

what's worst case scenario here if I drive it tomorrow like this- siezed wheel bearing?
Cheers.

 

[vk7ybi]

I see no zoomed and sharpened version..

The bolted version is wrong..

I guess the worst that can really happen is that the bearings become depleted of all their grease, they seize, the inner race starts to spin and causes irrepairable damage to the spindle necessitating replacement of the whole rear housing.. This ofcourse is unlikely.. Whats more likely is that you lose an axle or cause more damage to the bearings, assuming they have no preload.. The wheel shouldnt fall off if the locking arrangement on the nuts is doing its job, but I have seen sheared locking pins too..

 

[67azcruizr]

looks like someone ass-rigged that leaky side with bolts. Get youself a six pack of studs, cones and washers along with a gasket set and fix it right in about 30 minutes or less

 

[vk7ybi]

I see the zoomed and shaarpened image now.. Thats how its should be..

The empty tapped holes near the top and bottom nuts are used to screw an over length bolt into to remove the axle.. The bolt bottoms on the hub body and as its tightened, extracts the axle.. When I rebuilt my last rear axle, I put some shortened bolts in there with some sealant so they dont get full of crud.. When theyre full of dried mud and rust, theyre useless..

Looking at the top pic again, the tapped holes are vacant, but the two dowells have been replaced with bolts too.. If it were me, I'd change the hub and axle, but I'm picky..

 

[andrewfarmer]

Chek the dowels are there and the holes for them are not stretched. This is the most likely cause of the bolts coming loose.
As previously suggested, use OEM studs, cone washers and nuts.
The 'faulty' side has bolts in the threaded holes - these are only used to pull the axle off - if bolts are there this would casue strange loading on the rest of the system and also be a possible cause of failure - these should be removed.

Replace the axle seal while the axle is out - running loose has probably wrecked it anyway.

And then put a stud set on the other side as well

 

[beejay42]

Thanks everyone.
I just got my internet working again.
So I have a bit of work to do... again.. but before that I have to try to understand it all, and source my needed parts.
Is this written up in the manual at all- diagrams etc? I will have to check it out when I have a minute.

Gotta pass out now for work in the morning.
Gnight.

Thanks again,

 

[amaurer]

I see the zoomed and shaarpened image now.. Thats how its should be..

The empty tapped holes near the top and bottom nuts are used to screw an over length bolt into to remove the axle.. The bolt bottoms on the hub body and as its tightened, extracts the axle.. When I rebuilt my last rear axle, I put some shortened bolts in there with some sealant so they dont get full of crud.. When theyre full of dried mud and rust, theyre useless..

Looking at the top pic again, the tapped holes are vacant, but the two dowells have been replaced with bolts too.. If it were me, I'd change the hub and axle, but I'm picky..

Chek the dowels are there and the holes for them are not stretched. This is the most likely cause of the bolts coming loose.
As previously suggested, use OEM studs, cone washers and nuts.
The 'faulty' side has bolts in the threaded holes - these are only used to pull the axle off - if bolts are there this would casue strange loading on the rest of the system and also be a possible cause of failure - these should be removed.

Replace the axle seal while the axle is out - running loose has probably wrecked it anyway.

And then put a stud set on the other side as well

I think vk7ybi is right and andrewfarmer is mistaken. It looks to be like the threaded holes for pulling the axle shaft off are still there (and empty), while the extra bolts are in the holes where the dowel pins should be.

You need to replace that hub and probably the axle shaft. The studs are only supposed to hold the axle in place, its the dowels that transmit the torque from the shaft to the hub. As was said, its fairly common that the dowels become loose and their holes elongated, which causes the other studs to loosen and eventually the dowels can fall out. I suspect yours had loosened badly and the holes are wrecked so the PO put in bolts instead. Not only are the bolts not strong enough for dowel-duty (which were hardened) but they're apparently also doing a bad job of keeping the other studs from loosening. Anything other than a new hub (and axle shaft, probably) would be half-assing it, IMO.

 

[beejay42]

Thanks Amaurer.

Righto- off to work now, and later I will start trying to source the hub and axel shaft.

I'll check in tonight.
Cheers everyone- MUD rocks! It's like an addiction support group or something- they help you stay addicted

 

[andrewfarmer]

Yes he's right I've just double check mine - the dowels have been replaced with the bolts. New axles and hub is the answer - or you could take the set to an engineer and get them modifed for oversize dowels which would probably be a cheaper solution and should work just as well. Or even get new standard size dowel holes made in the spare gap between the stud holes. Better still - do both and it should never move again

 

[beejay42]

Well, now that I have read through the appropriate section of the Chassis and Body manual- it is all making a little more sense to me.

Ahhhg. I'm tired.
Need to get some parts.

 

[amaurer]

Well the good news is that rebuilding a full floater is actually kinda fun, in my opinion anyway. The things that usually frustrate people aren't an issue (no draining the diff, c-clip removal, or welding in the bearing like on a semi float, and no knuckle grease/shim/preload nightmare like up front).

 

[mustardfj40]

I have been running ARP studs both in front axle and rear full floating axle, stronger than stock:

Front Range Off-Road Fabrication

Good luck.

/td

 

[beejay42]

For this brief moment that my internet is working again (99% of the time right now it isn't), I'll try to fill the thread in.
Spent the day today at Matt's house replacing bits.

New bearing kit installed, replaced hub, replaced drum with a freshly machined one (was a chip in the old), and replaced axle shaft (though everything else seemed OK about it, the dowel holes in my axle flange were over-drilled for the bolts that were in there- and thus were a loose fit for the new dowels on the new hub).

It all looks and feels good now- and not a moment too soon. Yesterday just carefully driving around buying parts I sheered another stud so was down to one original stud, and two overdrilled, tapped and bolted holes- NO ORIGINAL DOWELS. It was spraying oil and had ground up the axle seal pretty good- was getting a bit messy.

So,
Big thanks to everyone who has offered advice on this thread so far- and once again a special thanks to matte.mcinnes- thanks mate, you're a legend.

Hans.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Well the good news is that rebuilding a full floater is actually kinda fun, in my opinion anyway. The things that usually frustrate people aren't an issue (no draining the diff, c-clip removal, or welding in the bearing like on a semi float, and no knuckle grease/shim/preload nightmare like up front).

More time for beer

Big thanks to everyone who has offered advice on this thread so far- and once again a special thanks to matt.mcinnes- thanks mate, you're a legend.

Hans.

Too easy mate

 

[lcwizard]

I always drill out the studs to the next size up, 10mm in your case, 3/8" in usa.
I've been running floaters in the rears for for quite some time and have sheared too many
8mm studs to remember. Granted, I'm running chevy V-8's, with transfer doublers and 35" +
tires. On the ARCA competition truck we actually ran 7/16" studs. Even if we torqued the 8mm studs
between every obstacle they would still shear. We were running a v-8 to a SM420 with 4.88's and 39"
super swampers in that one.
Bobby Long sells a drive flange you can use as a drill guide to ad 4 more dowels, six dowels plus six studs. I'm guessing others have had the same problems

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Hann's is only running a 3B with stock drive train, 33"x12.5"x15' More to do with the previous owner making a mess of the hub.

New hub, Connies, axle and brake drum (had a chunk missing), bearing kit and all Torqued to spec. Matt has a little more space in the shed now

The Beige one up front. (3B heaven)

 

[beejay42]

Great shot Matt.
Your driveway is always a surprise- like some sort of 40 series tetris game never know what new blocks are going to be there.
Space in the garage? isn't that like space in the beer fridge? Soon to be amended no doubt

Everything is driving and feeling great now. Many thanks again.
btw- That photo really makes me want to pull off those big fiberglass flares. Next day off I am going to get some black rubber to match the front- and then do the other bearing kit. Actually am quite looking forward to it.

Cheers,
Hans.

 

[vk7ybi]

Hann's is only running a 3B with stock drive train, 33"x12.5"x15' More to do with the previous owner making a mess of the hub.

New hub, Connies, axle and brake drum (had a chunk missing), bearing kit and all Torqued to spec. Matt has a little more space in the shed now

The Beige one up front. (3B heaven)

Completely OT and thread revival, but what are those rear flares?