What brake lube do you use?

[agaisin]

Prior to a family trip, I was doing a tire rotation and brake inspection and found that I had a seized/frozen sliding pin on my rear left brake caliper. I was able to extract the pin, clean and lube it. However, this led me to the FSM to determine what type of lubricant to use on the sliding pin. I happened to have Permatex Green on hand and used that, but given the info I found below I'll plan on using SylGlide when I rebuild the calipers. Coincidentally I had been chasing a pull to the right and a wobble when braking - both are gone now.

Ahhhh... the elusive Lithium soap base glycol grease...

I had been down this path before and ended up with my head spinning. I was determined to get more info this time and I'll summarize what I found for the convenience of others and maybe to get more definitive guidance and input from other more experienced members on the board.

Here are the products most talked about:
1) Sil-Glyde (technically there's AGS Sil-Glyde Lubricting Compound, AGS Sil-Glyde Brake Lubricant, and Napa Sil-Glyde Lubricating Compound).
2) Permatex® Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube (Green Label)
3) Permatex® Ceramic Extreme Brake Parts Lubricant (Purple Label)
4) Permatex® Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube Hi-Temp Silicone Formula (Red Label)
5) Anti Seize Compound
6) Toyota Rubber Grease Part# 08887-01206
7) Toyota Disc Brake Caliper Grease Part# 08887-80609

Here's what I've concluded based on everything I've seen:
1) Sil-Glyde seems to be a clear winner - can't go wrong with it. Have not seen anything negative about it, it seems to be tried and true, many people have been using it for decades without issue, and it is readily available at all the auto stores I've been to. Only question I have is the difference b/w the sil-glyde multipurpose "lubricating compound" vs. the sil-glyde brake lubricant - both say they're good for brake parts and rubber, but interestingly the lubricating compound says it's good to 600F and the brake lube says it's good to 425F+, and the MSDS and TDS on the AGS site for Brake Lube both point to the general purpose lubricating compounds MSDS. Seems like most people that use silglyde use the general purpose lubricating compound.

2) Seems like there are many reports of frozen calipers and rubber swelling when using the Permatex Green and even Permatex Purple despite the claim on the label that they're compatible with rubber and all brake parts etc. People point out how thick it is and that numerous folks have found pins dried up or calipers frozen when using the Green. Based on what I've seen I would not use Permatex Green or Purple on brake parts that contact rubber.

3) Seems like Permatex Red (Hi Temp Silicone Formula) should be good for our brake parts that contact rubber. However, it does not seem to be readily available at the stores I've been to, and I don't see many people using it.

4) There doesn't seem to be any definitive information on which Toyota part number is the Lithium soap base glycol grease - I have seen people claim that both 08887-01206 and 08887-80609 are the Lithium soap base glycol grease. I will point out that the 01206 is called rubber grease and the 80609 is called disc brake grease.

Our FSM clearly distinguishes b/w "Disc Brake Grease" which is to be used on the shims (and presumably pad ears) vs. the "Lithium soap based glycol grease" which is to be used on the parts that make contact with rubber. Both these TSBs http://www.toyotapart.com/BRAKE_PAD_CLICKING_NOISE_T-BR004-00.pdf and http://www.empirepao.com/tsb/T-SB-0392-09.pdf reference 08887-80609 and clearly indicate it should be used for the shims and pad ears. By process of elimination I have to conclude that 08887-80609 is the Disc Brake Grease referenced in our FSM for use on metal to metal like shims and pad ears, and that it is NOT the lithium soap base glycol grease. That would lead me to believe that 08887-01206 is the elusive Lithium soap base glycol grease. Can anyone confirm?

What do you use and have you had frozen calipers or other issues with the grease/lube you use?

Hope this is helpful to others.

 

[svrw]

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Someone from yotatech dot com posted the same question, here:

http://www.yotatech.com/f116/lithium-soap-base-glycol-grease-explained-244903/#post51902202

He too discusses Toyota's elusive "lithium soap base glycol grease." He describes how he found a Russian site that claimed the use of it to be a typo, something about how since it is water-based, it should not be used on rubber. The PDF he linked to the data sheet for the product is not working, so I can't inspect. To be honest, I think your analysis is sound in every respect and I came to the conclusion that I'm just going to go with Permatex Red. Finding the Permatex red stuff online should not be hard. Although I haven't called Permatex and asked them yet, I suspect the green may be for high-intensity trucking and construction-type vehicles and may not last as long as the red. I am thinking they put it in a synthetic base oil and not Silicone because in order to withstand those whacky extreme temperatures (+3000 F !!) silicone could never work. The green is the cheapest stuff, it also does not contain silicone, instead a synthetic grease, probably just to make it cheaper. If you compare all three Technical Data Sheets, you will find that the purple extreme stuff is physically described as a paste. The other two are physically described as oils. Basically I suspect a silicone based product is best for long life application, so my theory is that it's a tradeoff between the extreme temperature needs of trucking and heavy construction (purple) and the regular needs of the average driver (red). Permatex's T.D. sheets say all three products are compatible with every part of the brake system that is being discussed, so I'll take their word for it at that point. I don't want to go looking deeper into the debate, like the Russian site said, it might be a typo. But AFAIC, if Toyota never cleared it up definitively, then it can't be that important.

 

[Gumby]

I use purple Permatex extreme 24125 on the pins, anti-rattle clips and the backs of the pads on every brake job.

Anti-squeal is no longer recommended for the back of the pads from what I've been told.

 

[agaisin]

I should mention that another type of grease some people say they use in the parts where "Lithium soap base glycol grease" is called for is White Lithium Grease. My understanding is that is definitely not appropriate. Despite both having Lithium in the name, my understanding is that White Lithium Grease is not appropriate for contact with rubber and I imagine there are other good reasons not to use it on or near brakes. I'll leave the detailed explanation to the grease experts if they care to chime in. Is it true that White Lithium Grease is petroleum based and therefore would have damaging effects to the rubber?

Just want to make sure no one accidentally uses the White Lithium Grease and I forgot to mention it in my original post.

If anyone knows of any false or misinformation, please correct me. I'm not trying to spread confusion or inaccuracies, just trying to make this an easier and safer task for others doing their own brakes.

 

[jonharis]

I usually just grab the little packet from the auto-parts store. No idea what brand it is but I've used it for 10+ years and it seems fine.

 

[agaisin]

I usually just grab the little packet from the auto-parts store. No idea what brand it is but I've used it for 10+ years and it seems fine.

Have you used the random brake grease packets for any of: sliding pins with rubber boots, piston seals, piston boots (i.e. any rubber parts)?

OR just on the back of the pads, shims, pad ears where you only have metal to metal contact?

The metal to metal contact - any brake grease should be fine. The metal and rubber is where the questions seem to be, and where the claims are that the wrong type of grease could lead to frozen/seized caliper parts (piston or pins etc).

 

[scottm]

Silicone grease is generally good up to 400°C/752°F. It is sold as O-ring lube, dielectric grease, brake grease, and for many other purposes. It is generally very good for preserving rubber parts (but not silicone rubber), and very good for high temperatures. I've used straight silicone (dielectric and/or O-ring lube) grease for years on brake slide pins and such, no problems. The Permatex stuff must have additives, hard to know what those are compatible with. If it's just moly or graphite I'm sure it will work well. I used high-temp moly grease when I was younger, never had a problem with that either. I did have trouble with anti-seize, it dried and caked up on the guide pins.

I haven't seen lithium-soap thickened grease recommended for brakes, generally lithium-soap breaks down (drops) at 350°F. I'm pretty sure the CV (moly) grease I used to use was lithium based, and it held up well, except when my wife drove home with the parking brake on. Silicone grease wouldn't have helped that.

Silicone grease is also great for lubing coolant hoses - makes them easier to install and easier to take off years later.

 

[bjowett]

A bit late here, and this may have been answered elsewhere.... but I just came across the MSDS for the TOYOTA RUBBER GREASE, and it is in fact the elusive lithium grease you speak of. Made by Cosmo Oil Japan.

http://dolphinmsds.taiamerica.com/MSDSImage/907500/907769.pdf

 

[n55luvr]

I used this stuff recently to lube the pins and moving parts. Glad I did as the pins looked like they had not been lubed in 10 years.

It does say it meets Japanese rubber standards on the back.



I use a different CRC product (red stuff) on the back of the pad shims to prevent any chirping noises.

 

[unklwedy]

CRC spray can, dry film lube, works on sliding metal parts, and minimizes rusty bits, goes on like paint.