Where hooks the glow controller into the harness?

[bj40green]

Goodmorning (my time) lostmarbles,
I'm not reluctant to say what plugs are in, I just have to take them out but today is a busy day for me, so I will do that later.

Good to know that there are errors in the book. I"ll already noticed the strange values on the next page compared to the (per) plug current. I'll let you know.

Time for breakfast............

 

[lostmarbles]

Goodmorning (my time) lostmarbles,
I'm not reluctant to say what plugs are in, I just have to take them out but today is a busy day for me, so I will do that later.

Good to know that there are errors in the book. I"ll already noticed the strange values on the next page compared to the (per) plug current. I'll let you know.

Time for breakfast............

Morning Rudi. I'm having breakfast myself now.

Heavens ... You get up at 3am!

Had a search for those controller numbers and can only find 46021 (which is the correct controller for yours and my BJ40 as far as I can see).

So I guess the 87303 controller could be responsible for your shortened glowtime (if you're running the correct 8.5V plugs). But somehow I doubt it.

Always nice to get involved in a thread on another BJ40 similar to my own!

PS. With the correct components, you're glow system on that BJ40 should be indestructible so you shouldn't need to worry about anyone glowing it for longer periods than you do.

 

[bj40green]

Good afternoon Tom or is it evening already for you. I calculated a time difference of 5 hours, right?

This morning I had some time to look at the glow plugs and the results are not what I like.
I took out the bus bar and starting testing the 4 plugs on resistance.
Where shall I start? With the errors in the FSM or the readings of the plugs?
The readings of the plugs are from radiator to firewall:
1st OPEN 2nd 2.2 ohm 3rd 1.2 ohm and the 4th 1.2 ohm. So #1 is fried, #2 is on his way to heaven and #3 and #4 are okay so the planning is to replace them all for fresh one's. Sounds good to me.

The text on the plugs: JAPAN and 6.8V. I don't think they are OEM but thats a guess.
Here I need help to figure out the correct plugs. The books says 19850-56022 but toydiy.com shows no price so...... I'm afraid that I'm gonna end up with aftermarket plugs.
Now the questions is; What should the text on the label say? HELP!
I read the thread from Falco80 last september https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/312042-i-guess-explains-hard-starting-my-b-diesel.html and all the hassle about good brands and replacements but I'm in Costa Rica so I have to deal with what's available here.
The second question is about the voltage stamped on the plug. The system is 12 Volt but due to the controller they are fed 5 to 7 Volt. What should be on the plug? 8V as I've read in the other tread?

About the FSM.... thanks for the advice LOSTMARBLES. I discovered 2 typo's on the next page too. When I'm ready with the plug exchange program I'll correct the text in FSM and post it here so everybody can use it.

 

[amaurer]

The voltage dropped across the controller varies with load - so with the wrong plugs currently fitted and one of them blown, measuring 5-7 V at the bus bar currently that doesn't mean very much.

12V trucks with a manual glow system (yours) need 8.5V plugs.

The EPC is also f*ed up in this case - you'll note the page you're looking at shows an H (6 cyl) engine and quantity of 6 for the p/n you mentioned... so don't fret, that part number is probably not the one you want. Marble's is better than I at finding the right p/n, I'll let him take the cake.

 

[lostmarbles]

Good afternoon Tom or is it evening already for you.

Still morning.

BTW, New Zealand leads the world as far as time is concerned. We get the new day before anyone else!

I think you are 19 hours behind us.

....This morning I had some time to look at the glow plugs and the results are not what I like.
I took out the bus bar and starting testing the 4 plugs on resistance.
Where shall I start? With the errors in the FSM or the readings of the plugs?
The readings of the plugs are from radiator to firewall:
1st OPEN 2nd 2.2 ohm 3rd 1.2 ohm and the 4th 1.2 ohm. So #1 is fried, #2 is on his way to heaven and #3 and #4 are okay so the planning is to replace them all for fresh one's. Sounds good to me.

The text on the plugs: JAPAN and 6.8V. I don't think they are OEM but thats a guess.
Here I need help to figure out the correct plugs. The books says 19850-56022 but toydiy.com shows no price so...... I'm afraid that I'm gonna end up with aftermarket plugs.
Now the questions is; What should the text on the label say? HELP!
I read the thread from Falco80 last september https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...guess-explains-hard-starting-my-b-diesel.html and all the hassle about good brands and replacements but I'm in Costa Rica so I have to deal with what's available here.
The second question is about the voltage stamped on the plug. The system is 12 Volt but due to the controller they are fed 5 to 7 Volt. What should be on the plug? 8V as I've read in the other tread?

About the FSM.... thanks for the advice LOSTMARBLES. I discovered 2 typo's on the next page too. When I'm ready with the plug exchange program I'll correct the text in FSM and post it here so everybody can use it.

Firstly. The only use for an ohmmeter (in my opinion) with glow plugs is for determining "continuity". So it is best to just ignore your resistance readings and ignore the ohm figures given in the FSM.

So you obviously have one blown plug and all the others are the wrong specification! (And here you are blaming your poor for putting your BJ40 in harm's way! ..... Heavens above!!! ... )

That 5-to-7 volt figure you measured is entirely dependant on current flow ... which is dependant on the voltage specification of the plugs you have fitted and also dependant on how many of them are actually working. In other words, if you had the correct 8.5V plugs fitted and all were in good working order I believe you'd measure around 8.5V there.

So the plugs you're after must have 8.5V stamped on them and you need to look for any of the following part numbers:
Toyota 19850-68030
NGK Y-128T
Nippondenso 067100-1350
HKT PT104
VSP PT104
APS 5013
EIKO GT208
JKT PT104
MAY PT104
Champion CH121
Bosch GPT208

Even in Costa Rica you must surely be able to find a set from one of these brands.

And if you can do overseas transactions they're definitely readily available on the Internet.



PS. Damn! I took so long making this post that Drew's beaten me by 22 minutes.

 

[bj40green]

Glow plugs

Hi Drew and Tom,
Wow you guys are fast. Thanks for the education and explication about glowing systems. Another lesson learned.
Thursday ( for Drew thats the day after tommorow and for Tom thats tomorrow) I'm off at the big city where all the part dealers are. By now I'm a regular customer so I'm going to ask them for a special discount LOL.
After that I'm 4 days out "in the middle of nowhere" to help a friend with some woodwork, electric and other stuff, and when there is time left we gonna do some work on his '76 BJ40, so I'll be back here monday or tuesday I think.

Talk to you later,

Rudi

 

[lostmarbles]

I've been thinking about those 6.8V glowplugs you have Rudi.

It struck me as a very odd voltage specification.

Any chance of posting some photos of them when you get back?



(Or perhaps you misread them as 6.8V and they are really 6.0V .... or maybe you just mistyped 6.8 for 6.0?. )

 

[bj40green]

I've been thinking about those 6.8V glowplugs you have Rudi.

It struck me as a very odd voltage specification.

Any chance of posting some photos of them when you get back?



(Or perhaps you misread them as 6.8V and they are really 6.0V .... or maybe you just mistyped 6.8 for 6.0?. )

Next week I'll take them out when I put the new ones in. I'll take pictures of all 4 of them to show you.
I'm sure I read 6.8 but I'm not surprised if I find different readings on the other 3. I didn't take them all out.
To explain a little bit of the lifestyle here in CR..... You ask for back-up light switch for a '78 BJ40 and they come up with a box containing a switch with a sticker wich matches your data.
I hand it over to the mechanic and he calls back that it's the wrong switch. OK I go back to the shop now with the old part in hand and ask for the one I have in my hand. No problema señor, and "kapoof" there is the right one. Solved. The trick is that the diy people here are using what they can get. So if the right one is not available, or they don't show the original, fat chance that you get a similar or look-a-like part. I think that's what happened. Another example is this one: I need a battery for a watch type is LR44. The guy start searching and after 7 minutes show up with a LR42 and a LR45. He explaines to me that it is almost the same. I explain to him that if it was the same it should have the same number. Yeah.... but..... Anyway, I go shopping tomorrow, with your list in hand because I trust your knowledge more then that bunch of idi**s here.

Thanks for the time you put in. I really appreciate it.

Rudi

 

[bj40green]

Ready for installing the new glow plugs

Last thursday I was at the parts shop, list in hand, and bought the new glow plugs.



All went well until #4 wouldn't come out.


I sprayed some WD40 on it, waited an hour, tried, sprayed some more, tried but no way it would turn. I'm afraid to use to much force so the truck goes to my mechanic tommorow.

So now I'm driving with 3 new ones and one old one. The glowing time is still the same. After 6 seconds I can read the paper by the glow of the controller so I have to visit the Toyota dealer to check on the right part# for the controller. The part# is 28550-46021 but they sold me 28550-87303 as replacement.

I read about an EPC (Electronic Part Catalog) in some postings.
Can somebody tell me how I can acces that?


Thanks for all the input and I'll keep you posted.


Rudi

 

[lostmarbles]

#4 wouldn't come out. but no way it would turn. I'm afraid to use to much force so the truck goes to my mechanic tommorow.

I've heard of people being unable to get them out before Rudi. But in every case the plug would unscrew and it was a swollen or exploded tip that simply stopped it from being lifted out.

This is crazy!

...So now I'm driving with 3 new ones and one old one.

Plugs should only ever be replaced as as a complete set Rudi.

(Personally, I wouldn't have test-glowed the new plugs until I had succeeded in fitting all four.)

.... After 6 seconds I can read the paper by the glow of the controller so I have to visit the Toyota dealer to check on the right part# for the controller. The part# is 28550-46021 but they sold me 28550-87303 as replacement. ...

Certainly sounds like that 87303 controller is the culprit but I think you should wait untill you have all four of your new EIKO plugs fitted before coming to this conclusion.

...I read about an EPC (Electronic Part Catalog) in some postings.
Can somebody tell me how I can acces that? .....

Run a search and you should find a thread full of info on downloading the EPC Rudi

 

[bj40green]

Tom, you are fast as usual. Thank you.
First thing in the morning I'm gonna take him for a 4km ride to the mechanic so I wont change the plugs back.
Then I start doing some research on the glow controller and after that we'll see what Eric (the mechanic) comes up with.

Hey, this is Costa Rica! No worries.

Rudi

 

[bj40green]

project finished

Today I finished the "Glow" project.
Eric (my mechanic) solved a oil leak problem and took care of #4 glow plug.
After that I replaced the "new"controller with the strange p/n 28550-87303 for a OEM Toyota controller with p/n 28550-46021.
Now everything is working fine. The controller almost doesn't lite up after 20 seconds but the truck starts perfect.
Maybe I'm gonna check that later tonight in the dark.

I took a picture of the 2 controllers side by side. Do I need to tell more?



To everybody who gave their comment and input.... Thanks guys!!!!
Whitout you guys I was still trying to figure out the non functioning S terminal on the glow relay.

Rudi

 

[bj40green]

Pic's of the old plugs

I promissed to put up pic's of the old plugs so here they are (the old plugs).

As you can see #1 was out of order, #2 has a 9 times higher resistance (should be 0.2Ω), #3 was OK and #4 was damaged on 3 locations.

That's it for today and for this thread.
What shall I do next????

Rudi

 

[alltoyotalexus]

Toyota Car Parts

First off, im new here, i love the site so far, its saved my time.

Just keep the 100 amps on the engine side.don't overtake it into the car!!!

 

[lostmarbles]

I promissed to put up pic's of the old plugs so here they are (the old plugs)......Rudi

Thanks Rudi.

Any chance of a closeup photo showing the voltage rating of those old plugs? (I'm puzzled because I've looked through the entire Bosch catalogue and nowhere can I find reference to any 6.8V plugs.)

And that odd 87303 controller ...... I find it interesting that it looks the same as your original one that burnt out...... Which makes me think that you had a "Costa Rica adaptation of some sort" (that was perhaps locally-matched to those old plugs giving you a speeded-up glowtime).

And if your 46021 controller doesn't glow as brightly as mine does after 20 seconds I suspect you may have one or more "poor connections with the busbar" or perhaps "dirty relay contacts" in your Glow Plug Relay.



PS1. At least with the 46021 controller and correct plugs you now have a bullet-proof Toyota-designed glow system. So you needn't worry anymore about your leaving the plugs glowing for too long.

PS2. I got the impression all Toyota glow controllers were unobtainium because, as I recall, Henry James the 47th posted that result for his 2H engine. (This just proves the danger of "jumping to conclusions".)

PS3. BTW - How much did the 46021 controller cost if you don't mind me asking?

 

[bj40green]

Thanks Rudi.

Any chance of a closeup photo showing the voltage rating of those old plugs? (I'm puzzled because I've looked through the entire Bosch catalogue and nowhere can I find reference to any 6.8V plugs.)

And that odd 87303 controller ...... I find it interesting that it looks the same as your original one that burnt out...... Which makes me think that you had a "Costa Rica adaptation of some sort" (that was perhaps locally-matched to those old plugs giving you a speeded-up glowtime).

And if your 46021 controller doesn't glow as brightly as mine does after 20 seconds I suspect you may have one or more "poor connections with the busbar" or perhaps "dirty relay contacts" in your Glow Plug Relay.



PS1. At least with the 46021 controller and correct plugs you now have a bullet-proof Toyota-designed glow system. So you needn't worry anymore about your leaving the plugs glowing for too long.

PS2. I got the impression all Toyota glow controllers were unobtainium because, as I recall, Henry James the 47th posted that result for his 2H engine. (This just proves the danger of "jumping to conclusions".)

PS3. BTW - How much did the 46021 controller cost if you don't mind me asking?

Thank you Lostmarble for all your help and advice.
@ PS1; Yes I'm a very happy Mudder now, knowing that my plugs are protected by a functioning controller. When I glow, the voltage goes from 5 Volt to 8.2 Volt after 8 seconds and stays there no matter how long I keep glowing. The engine starts after 8 seconds so there is no need to glow the full 20 seconds but one night I'm going out to see what happens after 20 seconds of glowing.

@PS2; I'm going to figure/find that one out as soon as I know what unobtainium is / means ???

@PS3; The 46021 cost me ¢23,000 which is a little bit less then US$46 not to bad I think.

In short; a verry happy Mudder

 

[lostmarbles]

.... When I glow, the voltage goes from 5 Volt to 8.2 Volt after 8 seconds and stays there no matter how long I keep glowing. ...

Well if you're reaching 8.2 V at the busbar ..... that sounds like everything is working fine as it is Rudy. (So I don't think you have any poor connections or dirty contacts in your glow system anymore.)

Don't be afraid of glowing for longer periods now though.

I think I mentioned before that I accidentally left my glow system energised/glowing for more than 20 MINUTES without incurring any damage.

...@PS2; I'm going to figure/find that one out as soon as I know what unobtainium is / means ??? ...

Sorry Rudy.

It is a made-up word (used a lot on MUD) meaning "cannot be obtained".

...@PS3; The 46021 cost me ¢23,000 which is a little bit less then US$46 not to bad I think....

That is cheap! Gosh! I paid around that much for a second-hand one that I hold a spare. (I didn't realise I could buy one new )

 

[bj40green]

The final conclusion

I just realised (only 6 months late) that there is no real end to this thread.
The last question was; why is my controller not glowing bright but just a tiny bit, only visible in the evening, after more then 20 seconds of pre glowing.
The answer is; because I bought "energy saving" glow plugs which doesn't draw enough current to make my controller glowing. This "manual glow" system was developed for glow plugs drawing 10 Amps each. So in my case 4 cil. times 4 = 40 Amps which would make the controller glow up. Unfortunately the glow plugs I bought draw only 8 Amps each so that makes 32 Amps which is 25% less then needed and that is why the controller doesn't lit up.

Rudi

 

[Racer65]

Waking up this old thread (ensuring there's no end ).
Does anyone know the resistance across the terminals of the 12V glow plug controller (28550-46021)? If not, does anyone have one that they can measure?

 

[bj40green]

The value is super low and is mentioned somewhere in this tread: Which plugs should I be running - B, 2B, 3B, H and 2H diesels - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/which-plugs-should-i-be-running-b-2b-3b-h-and-2h-diesels.471567/