The other day I noticed both my front wheel bearings were loose. So, I went and bought myself a fishscale, and a 2-1/8" Craftsman socket from Sears. I pulled everything apart and proceeded to adjust the preload on the bearings. First thing i noticed is that the inner and outer nut were both loose, and the washer flaps hadnt been bent around to keep them in place. It looked like some yahooo had been in there. There were also some small knicks on the nuts from where it looked like someone didnt have the hub socket and tried to do their best with a hammer and a flathead screwdriver to tighten them up (wasnt tore up too badly, though I read if this happens to replace). My question/problem is that for me to get the required 6.4-12.6 lbf with my spring gauge (fishscale), I need to put far more torque on the adjusting nut than 48 in. lbf (which I gather is about 4 lbf). Im having to use the ratchet in the hub socket with much force, versus what sounds like everyone else is basically hand tightening, to get this required preload. Does this mean my bearings are toast? They feel smooth when turned, and I currently have them set at 12 lbf off the lug nut, but am bothered at how much force it took to get them there after all the reading Ive done on how it is supposed to be done. Ive been driving around town for a couple days and everything seems fine, but I'm afraid to jump on the freeway and havent really got up over 45-50 mph, until I feel more comfortable about my situation. They do feel a little warm (nowhere near hot) after driving around town, but I live in a very hilly area and use alot of braking. Do I need new bearings, or am I just being paranoid?
Wheel bearing question
- Thread starter Land Bruiser
- Start date
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Land Bruiser said:
What you need is the factory service manual so you can see how to set up the hubs, because it involves applying three different torque levels on the inner and outer nut. The 48 inch pounds you are referring to is AFTER you apply 43 and 48 foot pounds to the inner nut while setting preload. If you want to know if you need new bearings, the only way to tell (without waiting until you break one and then you'll know for sure) is to go ahead and pull the hub off and inspect them. I'd park the truck and order the manual today. You'll have it a few days and can do it all the right way. Or find someone here who can fax or pdf it to you.
EDIT: From this thread https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=70312&page=2&highlight=lbs, post #44 here are the basics:
1. Install axle hub with disc to spindle. Install outer bearing. Install thrust washer amd tighten nut to 43 ft lbs.
2. Turn the hub right and left 2 or 3 times. Torque the nut again to 43 ft lbs.
3. Loosen the nut until it can be turned by hand. Then torque it to 48 INCH POUNDS (aka 4 foot pounds, not 10.)
4. Check preload. Ideal reading is between 6.4 and 12.6 lbf. (NOTE>> In the absence of a preload gauge, my advice to you is to get 10-12 pounds of some material and put it in a paint bucket with a handle. Run something like a steel rod horizontal through the wheel studs across the face of the rotor disc and hang your can on it. Keep messing with the outer nut until you can hook the can on the rod and cause it to pull the bring the wheel down ever so slightly. This is better than guessing, IMO. ***And FYI, the hub will not be able to "free-wheel" at those 10-12 ft. lb. settings. It will feel tight, such that if you grab with both hands and spin hard, it might turn 1/3 to 1/2 of a turn at best.
5. Install lock washer and nut. Torque outer nut to 47 ft. lbs. (not 43 or 45). Check preload again using same range. If its not within range, go back in and adjust it with the inner nut (not the outer nut.)
6. After range is set, secure lock washers by bending one tab in against inner nut and one tab out against outer nut.
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Cruiserdrew
On the way there
As long as you got the preload right, I think you are fine. 48 inch pounds is 4 foot pounds, but I usually average closer to 10 foot pounds on the adjuster nut. If you have no slop, and your preload is as specified, you have done it right.
- Thread starter
- #4
I have a FSM, and followed it, and what I've read on here... Also, I did pull the bearings out, and they "visually" looked good. It just seems like I had to put a whole hell of ALOT of force on the adjusting nut to get the 12 foot pounds of torque off the lug...
Land Bruiser said:
You mean you had to apply more than 45-48 ft lbs to get the 10-12 lbs of preload?
- Thread starter
- #6
No, I applied about 40+ pounds to the adjusting nut to get the 12lb preload off the lug stud. From my understanding I should only be using about 4 pounds on the adjusting nut, correct? I thought you only applied the 48 ft lbs to the adjusting nut when you first seat everything, then you loosen it back up to hand tight and then apply about 4 pounds (48 inch pounds) to the nut to get the 12 pounds off the lug stud with the spring gauge.. Im having to use over 40 ft lbs on the adjusting nut to get my 12 ft lbs off the lug stud...
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Land Bruiser said:
There are two torque steps on the inner nut, one to set the initial torque and another to confirm it after you rotate the wheel 3-4 times. Don't leave that step and move on to the outer nut until you have your preload set correctly. The magic of Toyota's equation is....if you cannot get the preload set within the prescribed range using those specified torque values, then you have excessively worn bearings or races or both. (Theoretically your spindle could be an issue too, though it should be visibly worn if it's a factor.) If you can get to the right preload using those torque values, then go ahead and do the outer nut. Typically, I end up around 8.5 to 9 preload on the inner nut, and after adjusting the outer nut, I end up with 10-11 total. This is using new bearings and the exact torque specs in the FSM.
Well .. maybe I'm doing those things wrong .. but adjusting my wheel bearings is a feeling .. never use any tool ( lbs measurement ) to do that .. I start a dialog with my land cruiser ( cray .. ? yes maybe ) and adjust this bearings .. 
Land Bruiser said:
No. I have no way of knowing how many bearings and races you have looked at in your life to gauge whether or not they are really worn. Assuming your bearings and races are not worn from running loose like you found them, you should be able to apply 43 (not 40) ft. lbs of torque with a good torque wrench and find that preload in the range specified with no trouble. If you don't get there without having to go up to 50+, then your tolerances are out because of wear, and then you have a decision to make about replacing the bearings and races.
But based on your question, you should have to apply around 40-45 ft. lbs to get within the preload range.
Tapage said:Well .. maybe I'm doing those things wrong .. but adjusting my wheel bearings is a feeling .. never use any tool ( lbs measurement ) to do that .. I start a dialog with my land cruiser ( cray .. ? yes maybe ) and adjust this bearings ..
There have been a hundred posts and threads here about "feel vs. the gauge," but what I want to know is, unless you own a preload gauge and have done enough of these with said gauge to establish the proper "feel" for when its right, then how the hell can you do it by feel? Yes, you can do it by feel and I am sure for the most part that Toyota's over-engineering will keep you from having a bearing melt-down. But if you want to run 100K miles on bearings and spindles and know that they will never, ever fail you, then my preference is to use my trusty little force gauge. I have said it before....this is not a hay baler. I am herding this behemoth at 75mph in 120 degree weather across the barrens of Texas with my family inside. My peace of mind comes from using my $25 eBay force gauge. I leave my talent of "feel" for girls and geetars.
-El Mariachi.
p.s. I can do mine by feel too, but only after having used the gauge for so long. Even still, I use the gauge.
I'm having kind of the opposite problem in that on mine it was difficult to get the preload low enough without play. IIRC I had to accept about 14 on the right side, but got to 12.2 on the left. This sound like worn bearings/races, grease issue, ???
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Probably a grease issue. Cold weather seems to really increase the turning resistance as measured by a scale. It's probably tempature sensitive, but not presented that way in the book. Brand new seals also increase turning resistance. I think it was Landtank who thought that touque on the adjuster nut, was probably a more uniform way to set wheel bearing preload, and I'm inclined to agree. Try setting the adjuster nut torque to 4 foot-pounds, and see where that leaves the preload. If it's in range, tighten up the lock nut and drive. If you're worried, recheck in a week or two when warm.
Yeah, I did just do a birf/bearing repack with new seals at the end of December. Last weekend I checked them and the left wheel had play while the right was fine, so I opened up the left side and seated it back down. Guess I'll just have to check it every couple of weeks until it settles down. Thanks for the assist.
with a combined mileage of over 300k on both my LandCruisers with no bearing issues at all, says I'm ok with out the fish scale.
Tapage said:Well .. maybe I'm doing those things wrong .. but adjusting my wheel bearings is a feeling .. never use any tool ( lbs measurement ) to do that .. I start a dialog with my land cruiser ( cray .. ? yes maybe ) and adjust this bearings ..
calibrated wrist method. I've done that many times.
landtank said:
I am getting you a scale for Christmas, because your luck is running out.
elmariachi said:Texas with my family inside. My peace of mind comes from using my $25 eBay force gauge. I leave my talent of "feel" for girls and geetars.
Yea I know what are you talking about .. in mylast long trip ( last november ) beck to my home I feel my steering erratic .. so I stock and off course, bad wheel bearing ( right )
So before this trip I check all and I " feel " this one maybe come worst throught teh trip .. but haven't chance to change it ..