UZJ Oil Filter study teaser (1 Viewer)

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Thanks guys, and my truck thanks you!

For some reason I seem to remember CDan saying that the -20004 was being superceded by the dinky filter, and was no longer going to be made? I know when our local dealers look up filters for the 1FZ-FE and the 3FE (in the 91-92 80 Series), you get the dinky filter.

I think you're thinking of the old-style, HUGE filter used on the 60/80 series? The 20004 is the same size as the YZZD3, but the insides are completely different.

cary said:
The 20004 is no longer imported, but still made. Somehow C-dan has managed to get his hands on a pallet of them, so if you want some, he is the sole source.

CDan is the only one in this country who carries the 20004 now. The filter is still made and sold in Japan for 2000 yen ($16 USD). He told me he ordered 500 of them last year directly from Toyota in Japan, got them by ship in December. When I ordered more last week, he had about 170 left. Gents, better order while supplies last, as it takes months to get them by boat! The mud price was $8 and change, half the Japanese price despite being shipped half way around the world!!
 
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Very interesting thread. I had not seen this. What was the consensus regarding the actual filtration capability of the 20004? Is this still the preferred filter? Has any new technologies come to the market?

BTW, gotmud - love the avatar - Top Gear rocks!

Jonathan
 
Why a Mobil1 M1-302 in the pic? I'm pretty sure that one has 13/16"-16 threads instead of the 3/4"-16 threads on Toyotas...

The "standard" for a UZJ is a M1-102, is it not?

I was messing around in a local auto parts store about 4 years ago, looking at the filters for my 4Runner with the 3.4L 5VZ-FE, taking them out of the boxes, etc. I came across one that matched perfectly with the small toyota replacement filter that was the same diameter, same thread pitch, but 50% longer. I did a cross-reference for the number, and it's the filter for a V6 Taurus.

Anyway, it turned out to be a Mobil1 M1-209. Same exact filter and specs as the "standard" replacement, but with 50% more filter media surface area.

That's what I have been using ever since - in the UZJ too...

Here's what I posted on another forum in 2006:

For my 5VZ-FE (3.4L), I use a filter for a 1995 3.0L Taurus. yes, for a FORD.

3.4L Toyota Filter Specs: (according to http://www.napaautoparts.com)

Item#: FIL1348

Price: $5.79
tax and shipping not included

Attributes:
Gasket I.D. (Inches):2.43
Gasket I.D. (mm):61.72mm
Gasket O.D. (Inches):2.734
Gasket O.D. (mm):69.44mm
Height (Inches):3.404
Height (mm):86.46mm
O.D. (Inches):2.921
O.D. (mm):74.19mm
Style:Spin-On Lube Filter
Thread Size (inches):3/4-16

3.0L Ford Filter Specs: (according to http://www.napaautoparts.com)

Item#: FIL1516

Price: $5.99
tax and shipping not included

Attributes:
Gasket I.D. (Inches):2.43
Gasket I.D. (mm):61.72mm
Gasket O.D. (Inches):2.734
Gasket O.D. (mm):69.44mm
Height (Inches):4.828
Height (mm):122.63mm
O.D. (Inches):2.921
O.D. (mm):74.19mm
Style:Spin-On Lube Filter
Thread Size (inches):3/4-16

the ford filter is $0.20 more, but has ~50% more filter media...

another candidate is the filter for a 3.0L Mazda, but I don't know what year range.


Item #: FIL1512
Attributes:
Gasket I.D. (Inches):2.43
Gasket I.D. (mm):61.72mm
Gasket O.D. (Inches):2.734
Gasket O.D. (mm):69.44mm
Height (Inches):5.842
Height (mm):148.39mm
O.D. (Inches):2.95
O.D. (mm):74.93mm
Style:Spin-On Lube Filter
Thread Size (inches):3/4-16

This one has ~70% more filter media than the standard OEM toyota filter!


...

Another interesting fact is that the V8 engine in my UZJ-100 Land Cruiser (V8) takes the same filter as the 4Runner, which is a prime candidate for the larger Ford filter since it also takes quite a bit more oil. the more media, the better...

The idea is to look at your filter side-by-side with other filters of the same diameter. Find on that has the same gasket diameter and same thread diameter/pitch, but with more filter media (overall longer).
 
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Very interesting thread. I had not seen this. What was the consensus regarding the actual filtration capability of the 20004? Is this still the preferred filter? Has any new technologies come to the market?

Jonathan

This is a bit old, but i have an answer to your question.

My parts guy at the local Lexus dealership was very impressed/curious/amazed by the 20004 filters and the fact that I actually am able to get any (thanks CDan!).

Anyways, he contacted one of the Toyota/Lexus engineers that he knows and asked about the filters, like why they are there when they leave the factory, but never used again in the U.S.

It turns out that the 20004 filter is designed to filter at a lower micron rating (smaller particles), than the YZZD3 filter. They use the filter from the factory in order to make sure that any particles resulting from engine break in are removed. So the 20004 is a better filter than the YZZD3 filter as far as cleaning ability goes.

The engineer also said that the reason Toyota does not import them into the U.S. is cost. American car owners would rather buy a $6 filter over a $14 filter, regardless of the difference in filtration ability.

Another point of interest is that the 20004 filter does cause higher oil pressure as a result of the better filtration, but the engineer said that the increased pressure is not enough to cause damage to the oil pump or anything else.
 
interestingly, on my 80 where I use only the 04 filter, the combination of that filter and a 15w-40 oil does indeed result in pressures high enough that the relief valve actuates. It's all good...
Oil analysis was excellent.
 
Very interesting. Thanks for the update pman!
 
FWIW, I have the 20004 filters for sale as well. 'Mud price is $9.99/each or 89.99/case of 10 - Shipped free of course.

I prefer the 20004 due to its size. Much easier to pack spares!
 
Just a quick question... If this raises oil pressure to the point of actuating the relief valve, how would this affect longevity on oil pump/sending hardware on some of our higher mileage rigs?
 
Just a quick question... If this raises oil pressure to the point of actuating the relief valve, how would this affect longevity on oil pump/sending hardware on some of our higher mileage rigs?

It won't. The relief valve will trigger within the safe operating pressure of the system.

It will totally bypass the filter negating any benefit to a superior filter and essentially allow the system to operate without any filtration. (probably only until the oil reaches operating temp)

E9999 is commenting on the effect in an 80 series with a heavier weight of oil not recommended in the 100. I would guess that even with a 15W-40 it only has that effect on cold starts and the filter is not in bypass at operating temp. If you had lots of cold starts and ran short trips this might be a poor choice but if you had few cold starts and ran longer average trips where the oil got to temp and was effectively filtered it might be irrelevant. Bypassing basically clean oil for a few minutes each trip would have no real negative effect.

Running 5w-30 oil in the 100 (Toyota recommendation worldwide and board consensus for 100s) it is very unlikely that the filter will ever go into bypass.
 
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I use the heavier weight oil (the great Delo400) cuz I do some desert runs at relatively high temps and the truck never sees freezing temps. To me, the better lubing is worth more than the (perhaps) slightly reduced mpg.
The bypassing only shows up at high rpms (which I rarely do anyway). You can tell (I think) cuz the pressure increases with increasing rpm for a while and then stops going up even if you increase the rpm further. (at 2/3 of the gauge range in my case).
I think it's a non-issue and I like to use good oil and good filters.
I would not be surprised if the current low weight oil recommendations by manufacturers have more to do with CAFE averages and marketing than with good engine practice.
 
I suppose 1000x photos or SEM photos of the media are out of the question?
It's hard to say a whole lot without inspecting each layer of media under really intense magnification I would think. I think peoples oil analysis results are where the real data lies. The methods and materials of construction are very interesting however.
Remember perfect filtration and reduced flow will cause engine wear. We really need adequate filtration with lots of flow and pressure, too much filter gets in the way.
The engineers comment that the 20004 is used for break in makes a lot of sense. Do we know what filters are used for regular changes in Japan? Do they just start with the 20004 and switch over to the YZZ later like we do or do the even sell the YZZ in Japan?
I have for years now just used factory filters in all my stuff assuming that was best... but the things the manufactures find to save money on don't always yield the best life span or owner experience... so does Toyota Japan really want us to have the best filter to make the motor run 500k or would a nickel in the bank and a 200k engine life be better for the coorporation?
Ex: Why is the vinyl and foam in our 1990 mini truck with 220k in such better condition than our 2001 Tacoma with 92k?
Just remember the manufactures are in a very competitive business and aside from the enthusiasts, nobody else can even tell you what brand of filter is on their junk, let alone why.

Yep, I'm a ramblin....
 
I suppose 1000x photos or SEM photos of the media are out of the question?
It's hard to say a whole lot without inspecting each layer of media under really intense magnification I would think. I think peoples oil analysis results are where the real data lies. The methods and materials of construction are very interesting however.
Remember perfect filtration and reduced flow will cause engine wear. We really need adequate filtration with lots of flow and pressure, too much filter gets in the way.
The engineers comment that the 20004 is used for break in makes a lot of sense. Do we know what filters are used for regular changes in Japan? Do they just start with the 20004 and switch over to the YZZ later like we do or do the even sell the YZZ in Japan?
I have for years now just used factory filters in all my stuff assuming that was best... but the things the manufactures find to save money on don't always yield the best life span or owner experience... so does Toyota Japan really want us to have the best filter to make the motor run 500k or would a nickel in the bank and a 200k engine life be better for the coorporation?
Ex: Why is the vinyl and foam in our 1990 mini truck with 220k in such better condition than our 2001 Tacoma with 92k?
Just remember the manufactures are in a very competitive business and aside from the enthusiasts, nobody else can even tell you what brand of filter is on their junk, let alone why.

Yep, I'm a ramblin....

As far as I know, the 20004 filter is used in other parts of the world even after break-in, it doesnt reduce oil flow/increase pressure enough to damage engine. If it did they wouldnt put it on new engines leaving the factory. I think the YZZ filter is mainly for the North American markets.

As far as what Toyota Japan wants..........they want to sell parts to make $$$

The vast majority of new car buyers in the states, sell their car after 5-7 years, meaning most never get past 100k miles. Similarly most people dont know about or care about the difference a good filter makes. To them all that matters is the price of the filter, the cheaper the better.

Knowing that, Toyota sells the cheaper filter in the states so that they dont lose filter sales to cheap aftermarket filters.
 
analysis results

It would be great if some original owners who had used one filter or the other for 100k or so and had analysis done on the used oil. If we had several such data points for both filters and some idea of maintenance and use we could really get to the bottom of how much of a difference on Toy filter vs. the other could make.

Would be hard to get enough data that really lined up I would guess unless you are a Toyoda family member, or Toy lube engineer
 
I've decided to go with the M1-209 filter.

With the size of this filter, it seems like it takes a bit for the system to come up to pressure. Would it be wise to pre-fill (partially) the filter before installing? I can't think there would be any risk in doing so.
 
I've decided to go with the M1-209 filter.

With the size of this filter, it seems like it takes a bit for the system to come up to pressure. Would it be wise to pre-fill (partially) the filter before installing? I can't think there would be any risk in doing so.

No downside to prefilling. In fact 9 of 10 auto enthusiasts with lubrication related OCD already do and the one will fret about his missed opportunities once he knows about it.

You could end up spilling some of your $10/quart super oil but that's the cost of doing business.
 
Thanks NM. Now I have one more thing to obsess about.
 
As far as I know, the 20004 filter is used in other parts of the world even after break-in, it doesnt reduce oil flow/increase pressure enough to damage engine. If it did they wouldnt put it on new engines leaving the factory. I think the YZZ filter is mainly for the North American markets.

As far as what Toyota Japan wants..........they want to sell parts to make $$$

The vast majority of new car buyers in the states, sell their car after 5-7 years, meaning most never get past 100k miles. Similarly most people dont know about or care about the difference a good filter makes. To them all that matters is the price of the filter, the cheaper the better.

Knowing that, Toyota sells the cheaper filter in the states so that they dont lose filter sales to cheap aftermarket filters.

There is good logic here.

The 90915-YZZD3 is used on every V6-V8 Toyota made before the 3UR-FE. Most of the spin-on stuff is -YZZD3. You can even throw it on a 22RE and it will work fine.

All of the newer stuff is going to the 04152-YZZAx oil filters--non-spin-on. The 5.7, all of the new Corollas, new Highlanders, new FJC's, new 4Runners, new Prius, new Tundra with the 4.6L V8, etc.

Size of oil filter, as always, is determined by displacement.

Still, for the 100 series, the 90915-20004 "factory" filter is the best you can get without going with a custom oil filtration system.
 
Still, for the 100 series, the 90915-20004 "factory" filter is the best you can get without going with a custom oil filtration system.

Are you guys still keeping a stash of these available?
 

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