Upgrading to 1-tons

[nukegoat]

So, here's my thought process. Track with me here.

1) I like the 80 platform overall. I think it looks sorta cool and I love being able to camp in the back of it.
2) I'd like to re-do my front suspension (again).
3) I'd like to get away from the deficient 8" high pinion ring gear
4) I'd like to run a wider axle - I'm using spacers now to keep my tires away from the frame and control arms but that creates an unpleasant scrub radius (steering axis inclination is too far inboard still)
5) I'd like to run hydro assist but I'm unconvinced my OEM knuckles will survive.
...
So you may ask: Why not a custom housing holding a 9.5" LP center, 80 balls with hellfire knuckles, and custom shafts? Well, it's not a bad idea. It restores confidence in the ring and pinion but it's by no means cheap and then I'm still concerned about twisting or breaking the 30 spline shafts in the rear. So that's another potential problem. And as much as people call it a hybrid toyota 1-ton axle, it's probably still inadequate for 40s.


So, what about taking a 14-bolt, shortening the passenger side and running a spare shorter driver side shaft on the passenger side? It would offset the diff over a bit to clear the gas tank. Shave it, run discs, stuff an ARB with 5.38s in it, and you've got yourself a slightly bizarre passenger-offset 14 bolt. Break a shaft and just carry a single spare since now they're the same shaft on the inside

For the front, you can either run a low pinion chevy dana 60 and upgrade it with 35 spline outers, or do something wacky and re-tube a super 60 from a 2005 ford to be a passenger drop and just run mostly the stock internals. Wider, high pinion, back to normal scrub radius, 35 spline all the way through, beefy enough for hydro assist, and similar gearing ratios as the (now domestic) rear.

The two big problems I see with these routes are
1) "the 80 isn't a crawler" - I'm not really as interested in these arguments. Yeah she's a big ol' beast compared to a JK, but I can't afford a JK and even if I could, I'd still be having to buy these same parts. I do need a cage though.

2) "Your gearing still sucks" - Yeah. But the drivetrain is predictable. Still holding out hope for a doubler at some point in the future and perhaps the 3.1:1 gears would make it a non-issue. I lurch along with the stock xfer case and 5.29s. It's not great but it gets me places.


Thoughts? I'm not interested in the Toyota fanboy arguments - literally just wondering if there's something I'm missing. I'd do this in stages if I thought the 5.29/5.38 ratios wouldn't make a difference but I fear they will.

 

[Booger weldz]

Ford DRW width 70u, cut down to the offset. Still sees ~67" WMS and compliments a gm 60 SRW front nicely. The 70u is smooth bottomed and shaped like a turnip.

The rest is golden, no arguement.

 

[VuickB6]

Thoughts? I'm not interested in the Toyota fanboy arguments - literally just wondering if there's something I'm missing. I'd do this in stages if I thought the 5.29/5.38 ratios wouldn't make a difference but I fear they will.

Haven't the mini guys been using 5.29/5.38 ratios with no problems for a while now? I want to say I've seen it plenty of times before on pirate.


I got nothing...

 

[maxamillion2345]

My buddy runs a retubed passenger drop HP king pin ford axle under his yota. I'm running a chevy 60, drivelines have been kinda a pain but yota CVs should work well with some conversion flanges on your tons.

I'm running a 14 bolt in the rear but decided to run a gas tank from a grand cherokee (and an np205). BUT I would just have someone re tube a 14bolt and then run dual splined custom chromo rear shafts, if that's what you're gonna do. Not likely to ever break em. 14 bolt shafts tend to break at the flange that bolts to the hub. Dual spline with drive slugs solves that, plus chromo. Might as well if you're going to a custom shaft anyway.

I went chevy 63" leaves in the rear for simplicity sake but if you cut into the cab you could run some coilovers and run opposing pan hard 3 link front and rear.

I really like the 14 bolt but you may also look into 35 spline dana 60s (and boring to 35 spline) as you can get a little steeper in the gearing. Maybe throw a set of 3:1 gears in the case and run it, I don't see why gearing would be an issue.

As for size. People wheel ZJ/WJs hard and they're only 6" shorter and weigh damn near as much as an FJ80 and they're unibody. I don't see a problem with building a capable 80 series.

A full built 9.5/80 hybrid with chromos will never be as strong as a king pin 60 with chromos. A 9.5 rear will never be as strong as a stock 14 bolt. Make them fit, run em.

 

[250f4life]

How many times have you broken front/rear end parts? I wouldn't hesitate to put hydro assist on. Upgrade the studs and go?

 

[nukegoat]

How many times have you broken front/rear end parts? I wouldn't hesitate to put hydro assist on. Upgrade the studs and go?

Not often. Yota stuff is good and I take my time. But I know it's not up to much more abuse and stuff does fatigue

 

[nukegoat]

My buddy runs a retubed passenger drop HP king pin ford axle under his yota. I'm running a chevy 60, drivelines have been kinda a pain but yota CVs should work well with some conversion flanges on your tons.

I'm running a 14 bolt in the rear but decided to run a gas tank from a grand cherokee (and an np205). BUT I would just have someone re tube a 14bolt and then run dual splined custom chromo rear shafts, if that's what you're gonna do. Not likely to ever break em. 14 bolt shafts tend to break at the flange that bolts to the hub. Dual spline with drive slugs solves that, plus chromo. Might as well if you're going to a custom shaft anyway.

I went chevy 63" leaves in the rear for simplicity sake but if you cut into the cab you could run some coilovers and run opposing pan hard 3 link front and rear.

I really like the 14 bolt but you may also look into 35 spline dana 60s (and boring to 35 spline) as you can get a little steeper in the gearing. Maybe throw a set of 3:1 gears in the case and run it, I don't see why gearing would be an issue.

As for size. People wheel ZJ/WJs hard and they're only 6" shorter and weigh damn near as much as an FJ80 and they're unibody. I don't see a problem with building a capable 80 series.

A full built 9.5/80 hybrid with chromos will never be as strong as a king pin 60 with chromos. A 9.5 rear will never be as strong as a stock 14 bolt. Make them fit, run em.

I would probably try to keep both diffs offset. I like hp in the front for driveline angles if it were built to take the load. How complicated was your buddy's retube? Does it work well?

 

[nukegoat]

Haven't the mini guys been using 5.29/5.38 ratios with no problems for a while now? I want to say I've seen it plenty of times before on pirate.


I got nothing...

Probably ok if I ran a part time case or removed the vc. But not ideal and wheel patterns wouldn't match

 

[ChiTown]

9.5 are technically a 1 ton axle. How many chromoly 30 spline Toyota full floater axles have you seen snapped?

 

[nukegoat]

9.5 are technically a 1 ton axle. How many chromoly 30 spline Toyota full floater axles have you seen snapped?

Enough

 

[Booger weldz]

Pretty sure he's going one ton for the potential aftermarket they offer, which far exceeds anything you can create with toyota parts in strength, even if you look at it sideways, or squint.

Threads gonna get derailed....

 

[Cruiserdrew]

A cut down 14 bolt is too narrow for an 80. Instead, see the old thread about how to Cut both sides, weld it over a sleeve and change the sides of the long and short side axle. Makes for a full width 14 bolt on the cheap. I doubt you will ever come close to breaking stock 14bolt shafts. Your gearing won't be that low and you're not racing KOH in an 80.

If cost were no object at all, a re-tubed hi pinion Ford D60 would be pretty sweet. For less $$ a Chevy D60 with 35 outers would work great.

 

[maxamillion2345]

My buddy stripped the axle, took it to the local axle guru in Reno and he flipped it all around for 200$

He's been beating on it a good while now, works awesome. I'm sure there is someone local to ypu who can do the same. Hes got an alignment bar and all that so it's legit.

I agree on retubing the 14 bolt too. I'm a little confused on your original plan but I'd retube it to the offset you need with custom shafts. Or if you can get away with flipping long side short side tubes/shafts thatd be cool too. Cant remember which side is offsey though.

As far as the front. A 9.5" front with chromos and a rhd arm (w/ arps) and hydro assist probably wouldnt give you much trouble but it'll never match a true 1 ton with chromos.

 

[nukegoat]

My buddy stripped the axle, took it to the local axle guru in Reno and he flipped it all around for 200$

He's been beating on it a good while now, works awesome. I'm sure there is someone local to ypu who can do the same. Hes got an alignment bar and all that so it's legit.

I agree on retubing the 14 bolt too. I'm a little confused on your original plan but I'd retube it to the offset you need with custom shafts. Or if you can get away with flipping long side short side tubes/shafts thatd be cool too. Cant remember which side is offsey though.

As far as the front. A 9.5" front with chromos and a rhd arm (w/ arps) and hydro assist probably wouldnt give you much trouble but it'll never match a true 1 ton with chromos.

There's a few ways to approach re-tubing the 14 bolt. I'm just looking for any way that ultimately gets me the width I want while leveraging only the available stock length of shafts out there. Even if that's not really doable in the end, cut-to-fit shafts aren't that pricey.

Example: Instead of the typical pairing of a 37 5/8 (passenger) with a 31 5/8 (driver), I'd shorten the passenger side and run a 33 3/8 from the driver side of a van 14 bolt. That moves the pinion over about 4" from center and gives me a 63.25" WMS 14 bolt. I could then run 8x6.5 to 8x170 spacers in the rear to add a few inches of width. Alternatively, if I want to go wider, I can start with a DRW 14 bolt and do something similar.

I'm not trying to oversimplify things, but just trying to think out loud here. I like the 14 bolt because I'd feel comfortable setting up the gears myself and it's a good beater axle.

Running a LP dana 60 in the front and a 70u in the rear allows me to run 6.17s, which would be a nice complement to larger tires like 40s or 42s... staying with a HP 60 or 14 bolt limits me to 5.38s.

 

[nukegoat]

A cut down 14 bolt is too narrow for an 80. Instead, see the old thread about how to Cut both sides, weld it over a sleeve and change the sides of the long and short side axle. Makes for a full width 14 bolt on the cheap. I doubt you will ever come close to breaking stock 14bolt shafts. Your gearing won't be that low and you're not racing KOH in an 80.

If cost were no object at all, a re-tubed hi pinion Ford D60 would be pretty sweet. For less $$ a Chevy D60 with 35 outers would work great.

It's ghetto but I like the internal-sleeve approach to retubing. The only problem is if the inner diameter isn't constant (the wall thickness seems to get thinner while the OD stays the same.) A short insert, alignment bars, and a bit of creativity woudl make it work, but if I can make the problem go away by paying someone, this may be a good case to outsource.

 

[Wrench]

I think going to stronger axles is inevitable. But one tons aren't the be all end all in axles. People are still breaking those. Dusty broke his. I think we might have to go to rockwells

 

[Krazytoy]

Axle tech 4000's! 42 degrees of steering, 6.38 gears, more clearance than a 14 bolt, both steering axles, and air lockers. A friend of mine sells them with wheels and tires (47 Michelins and steel 20" wheels) for under $3k. Can't beat that deal. Oh, and lots of company's are making brackets and steering arms for them now. Or, go drop out 14 bolts with Ruff Stuff housings. Orr, just call Spidertrax and get some Gearworks 10.5"s.

 

[Wrench]

Yeah baby!!

 

[itbrokeagain]

I have a sterling 10.5 sitting in my garage. It will probably end up in my 80 eventually. I see no issues with what you have planned. I think a full width 80 would look good

 

[maxamillion2345]

Bling axles are cool until you look at the cost.

The aftermarket for 14 bolts and 60s is awesome I mean if you're breaking a trussed 60 with custom inner/outer knuckles and 300m RCVs you're seriously partying. Same goes for a 14 bolt with 40 spline 300m 14 bolt shafts. Point is, you can go a long ways with tons before ever need 2.5 ton or whatever axles. And it's not likely anyone is going to run a full bodied 80 hard enough to ever need anything like that.