turbo or no turbo for expeds?

[e9999]

I don't know much about Diesels and Turbos.

Now, assuming I'd get a Diesel engine, say a Toy, in an exped vehicle intended for serious expeds as in US to Patagonia. Is it better in general to have a turbo on or not? I'm sure the turbo would help with power. But then if you're not in a hurry is it a good idea? Are turbos pretty reliable? And can you run a diesel engine fitted with a turbo if the turbo conks out in the middle of nowhere?

How about mpg?

 

[cruiser_guy]

Fuel mileage on a turbo'd diesel should be better unless you keep beating on the skinny pedal. Turbo's are reliable if you, the user treat them right ie: don't "run it hard and put it away wet" and it will treat you well.

Personally I would not be too excited about not having a turbo on my diesel anymore.

If you add a turbo to an engine that was naturally aspirated then naturally you can go back to a naturally aspirated engine. In my case a decent exhaust shop could probably bypass my turbo in a few hours and I'd be naturally aspirated again.

 

[e9999]

How reliable is reliable? As in doing 20,000 miles in the dust with a T-shirt as air filter kind of reliable?

or perhaps reliable as in much less likely to fail than an OEM head gasket on an 80 or a diff on a 100?

but could you still run the engine if the turbo would say freeze up in the middle of nowhere? Either just running it as is or taking "something" out with minimal hand tools?

I guess what I'm trying to find out is whether a Turbo is a liability for long-term expeds in third world countries. (Do they come standard in Africa, say?)

 

[cruiser_guy]

Often times in the third world vehicles are "used hard and put away wet" therefore the life expectancy is much less. If you take reasonable care of your vehicle there is no reason why the turbo will not be as reliable as the remainder of the vehicle. Just take the precautions necessary with a turbo (idle down after hard work and proper oil changes) and all will be well.

If you were to do 20,000 miles in the dust with just a "T" shirt as an air filter I tend to think that the turbo going out would be the least of your worries!!

In much of the third world turbo's are considered unreliable but in my opinion it is due primarily to poor maintenance and driving habits.

 

[roscoFJ73]

I guess what I'm trying to find out is whether a Turbo is a liability for long-term expeds in third world countries. (Do they come standard in Africa, say?)

The UN has 3000 landcruisers in Africa and none of them are turbo(except maybe the head man's).
You can buy a turbo diesel from an African dealer but like oz,they sell mainly non turbos.
If your bumping along on bad roads at 20-40 mph all day ,you dont need a turbo.
Handy to have if you plan on crossing high mountian ranges where the air will be thinner.

They will run with a bad turbo but use a LOT of fuel, run bad and probably a lot hotter.
But as Cruiser guy stated,they are generally reliable and if you remove it,you can contnue without it.

The 1HZ will have adequate power under most conditions and still cruise at 70 mph easily without a turbo.

EDIT . In oz ,europe and japan ,all landcruiser diesels are now single or twin turbo. The V8 diesel is not available as a non turbo,AFAIK.

 

[e9999]

The UN has 3000 landcruisers in Africa and none of them are turbo(except maybe the head man's).
You can buy a turbo diesel from an African dealer but like oz,they sell mainly non turbos.
If your bumping along on bad roads at 20-40 mph all day ,you dont need a turbo.
Handy to have if you plan on crossing high mountian ranges where the air will be thinner.

They will run with a bad turbo but use a LOT of fuel, run bad and probably a lot hotter.
But as Cruiser guy stated,they are generally reliable and if you remove it,you can contnue without it.

The 1HZ will have adequate power under most conditions and still cruise at 70 mph easily without a turbo.

EDIT . In oz ,europe and japan ,all landcruiser diesels are now single or twin turbo. The V8 diesel is not available as a non turbo,AFAIK.

good to know, and sobering too...

 

[Hilux]

I don't know much about Diesels and Turbos.

Now, assuming I'd get a Diesel engine, say a Toy, in an exped vehicle intended for serious expeds as in US to Patagonia. Is it better in general to have a turbo on or not?

Turbo = system. And systems CAN fail. (K.I.S.S) IMO the less systems you have the less the likelihood of getting in a pickle...WHERE you are when you get in this pickle is what would be on my mind.


Also, I like to think about...water. If you water cross like you see them in the "fun runs" IMO the sudden splash of water and the heat the Turbo has, (IMO) will increase the chances of warpage and cracking....not that it happens, just something to think about.

I'm sure the turbo would help with power.

Yes, very much. But as stated by someone else, bombing around at 40mph all day, and you'll never miss it.

But then if you're not in a hurry is it a good idea?

Yes, it will get better MPG at higher rpm's....(compared to the nat)

Also, nat aspirated Diesels are s.......l.........o....................w.....

Turbo'ed ones will go. Turbo Diesel: Faster, more powerful and BETTER mpg. But, it's at the expense of a....? Added system. And systems can what?

Are turbos pretty reliable?

Yes, very, but generally aren't the factory one$$$....

And can you run a diesel engine fitted with a turbo if the turbo conks out in the middle of nowhere?

Sure, if you like taking along another manni, and swapping it on the off chance it fails...sure. Take a down pipe along too, I don't think they'll interchange....and other, different, intake piping hoses.

(Just carry a spare Turbo )

How about mpg?

A nat will get less MPG than a forced...

 

[cruiser_guy]

Yes, very much. But as stated by someone else, bombing around at 40mph all day, and you'll never miss it.

Bombing around at 40mph on LEVEL ground you won't miss it, start climbing hills and you'll wish you had it!!

My trip from Vancouver, B.C. to Mexico in 2002 convinced me that a turbo was well worth the potential headaches and trouble and so far (200,000kms later) it has not let me down. Mexico City is at 8000 ft and ALL roads lead to Mexico City if you are going further south as we were. It was a SLOW trip up those hills! Now in Guatemala at 13500 ft (the high point of the Interamerican Highway) there is little noticable difference from sea level!

 

[Hilux]

True, very true. Because Diesels, like their junk(gas) counterparts require air(O2) to burn the fuel. And as the elevation increases, the oxygen level decreases making it harder to burn.

Yeah, you got me, I forgot to Top-o his route

 

[prado t]

A turbo should last the life of the block. Turbo Diesels in general last longer than non turboed. OF COURSE for any type of driving a turbo diesel is the only way.

 

[cruiser_guy]

Another thing that should be mentioned since I see it here in Guatemala all the time is that many folks with a naturally aspirated diesel will increase fuel delivery to "increase power" since we all know that if you can BURN more fuel you get more power.

The reason I mention this and use quotes and capitals is that, yes, you will increase power IF you can burn the fuel but that requires both additional fuel AND additional air. A non-turbo'd diesel CANNOT provide that additional air so the additional fuel INCREASES combustion chamber temperatures ONLY and thus causes premature engine failure and excessive fuel use, not to mention clouds of black sooty smoke! I have seen engines here that have been torn down where the rings are MELTED into the pistons!!

Basically, you'll be fine either way but in my opinion a turbo's benefits more than outweighs it's drawbacks.

 

[FJn00b]

True, very true. Because Diesels, like their junk(gas) counterparts require air(O2) to burn the fuel. And as the elevation increases, the oxygen level decreases making it harder to burn.

Yeah, you got me, I forgot to Top-o his route

The O2 level is 21% in every elevation but O2 pressure drops as you go higher.

 

[cmadness]

Turbos can fail on a regular basis. However, they can be rebuilt or replaced. If one does fail or seize, the motor will still run. The bigger problem is the extra hoses that are involved. There can often times be several and get expensive to replace. Also, if the hoses fail and start to leak you will have engine problems. It turns into more spare parts to carry in an expedition vehicle.

 

[tmarx]

My 105 has become exclusively my overlanding/expedition vehicle while also serving as my DD.(The 40 is for the short trails ). It started out as a NA but I added an aftermarket turbo & intercooler about 2 years ago. The main reasons were the fact that the vehicle is often loaded heavily for long trips and depending on destination I might even be towing my camper trailer. In general the 1HZ is ok but when you do overlanding around here you usually have long stints on good roads untill you get to the point where your "expedition" actually starts eg Moz, Kalahari, Nam etc. Once in the ruff stuff the NA 1HZ should in general(excluding very long dunes, very thick sand etc) be fine like Ross said, but you still have to get to the start of your expedition and afterwards get back home again. I found it was severy underpowered during those stretches to the extent that it was irritating. Now I have the best of both ie good consumption and relieable power. Turbos are relieable by nature but if you overdo things the engines are not. Monitor your egts & idle down and you will be fine

 

[sandcruiser]

I can't imagine that I'll ever want a NA diesel after having owned an hd-t.
sure, turbo adds some degree of complexity, but if you follow that logic far enough, you would be driving a 40 with an H motor, no power steering, no power brakes, no electricals. Because there are less things to fail.

 

[joshoisasleep]

Don't bother heading to Patagonia in a non-turbo'd diesel. Crossing the Andes is no fun without one, and you'll miss out on so much. I added a turbo in Ecuador when my 3b was VERY unhappy at 10,000 feet without one. At 15,000+ feet in Bolivia, I was laughing at all the 6 cylinder gassers as I sped past them, instead of having to avoid the country alltogether.

I've had problems with my turbo... the install and unit itself were both cheap and questionable, but it was still absolutely essential and I would not want to be without it on an expedition rig - especially if you're headed for Patagonia.

 

[lowndsy]

i consider myself a minimalist but the point made on the bare 40 series is very true. im currently building a 40 and yes, it has no carpets, no heater, running a 1f for less emissions stuff* on the engine, only put a booster on the brakes for a disc conversion as theyre simpler than drums to maintain. when its done i dont think il be taking it for drives over a few hours, its actually going to be quite useless, just a bit of fun really.

my experience with turbos extends to my old nissan silvia, and anyone who has worked on a JDM silvia would know a thing or two about blowing manifold and turbo gaskets. replacing the turbo gasket is actually as simple as un-doing four bolts and sliding the new one in place, but getting to those bolts takes HOURS of mental and physical pain. IMO turbos are great IF theyre designed to be servicable.

dont be stupid and over boost all day, warm them up and cool them down, if its a home job make sure you have the correct support systems. but saying that, there are times when the pedal shouldnt leave the floor, revs should scream and you should fear for your life, because IMO thats the fun of having a turbo- using it. in my experience they have a service life of about 100,000ks if regular oil changes are made with decent oil.

also make dam sure there is something filtering the line between the turbo and the TB(such as an intercooler), because if a stray bit of stuff* does somehow make its way past the airfilter and into the turbo mouth, it may shatter a fin which can in turn find its way into a combustion chamber or jam in valves.

what about LPG systems? i have driven a few LPG diesels and they really go, also fuel economy is about 25% better. just a bit hard to get hold of the stuff some places