Timing mishap

[Alberta4x4]

Hello all,
I've been having some trouble with my recently purchased 97 lx450 have a noise which I thought I had traced to a bad water pump. The idle has become a bit hesitant and I had the typical oil leaks where everyone knows where they are.

So I thought after getting a lengthy parts list together I would begin baselining my rig... well
Didn't have much fun this afternoon.

First I pulled the spark plugs this is what they all looked like...

I replaced them all with OEM
Need some feed back on what's possibly going on with these.

Then I moved onto the distributor cap and rotor and o ring.

Pulled the distributor, double and triple checked all plug wires connected in the right order, tried getting everything lined up for the timing which was about 9 times.......... didn't find anything about the jumper wire until the last try... anyways got the timing set with a light finally at 3degrees. Let it sit and now the idle seems to sporadically go high around 1000rpms and then immediately go back to around 500rpms. Not sure If the IAC valve has gone too, maybe coincidence 🤔 maybe I've got something still wrong.

Also I still feel a hesitation in the idle when it is running normal at around 650 rpm

Everything just feels off still any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Chang739]

There might be more too it but the spark plug page of my Haynes Repair manual points to hot plugs, which is a fairly unique symptom with the white blistering.

 

[gummycarbs]

Also I still feel a hesitation in the idle

What?

The plugs look fine (well, not alarming) to me. You're burning some oil. I'd be more concerned with the amount of oil residue on the insulator of the two middle plugs. Your spark plug seals are probably as hardened as your valve stem seals...

 

[ColoradoBoy]

Hello all,
I've been having some trouble with my recently purchased 97 lx450 have a noise which I thought I had traced to a bad water pump. The idle has become a bit hesitant and I had the typical oil leaks where everyone knows where they are.

So I thought after getting a lengthy parts list together I would begin baselining my rig... well
Didn't have much fun this afternoon.

First I pulled the spark plugs this is what they all looked like...View attachment 2970141

View attachment 2970142

I replaced them all with OEM
Need some feed back on what's possibly going on with these.

Then I moved onto the distributor cap and rotor and o ring.

Pulled the distributor, double and triple checked all plug wires connected in the right order, tried getting everything lined up for the timing which was about 9 times.......... didn't find anything about the jumper wire until the last try... anyways got the timing set with a light finally at 3degrees. Let it sit and now the idle seems to sporadically go high around 1000rpms and then immediately go back to around 500rpms. Not sure If the IAC valve has gone too, maybe coincidence 🤔 maybe I've got something still wrong.

Also I still feel a hesitation in the idle when it is running normal at around 650 rpm

Everything just feels off still any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Have you checked for vacuum leaks yet? (sporadic idle RPMs) What is the PM history, if known? These rigs are quite sensitive to having a well-sorted vacuum system to run correctly. Between having the FSM and the good folks here on MUD, I was able to 'flatten the learning curve' when my rig was new to me. The more information you can share with the group, the better the focus to pinpoint a fix. LOTS of good info on this site- search, read, and ask questions; you/we can get it sorted out.
Cheers!
Welcome to MUD!

 

[Alberta4x4]

The rig has almost 200×××km I know nothing on the previous maintenance unfortunately. Unrelated but apparently the front axel assembly was rebuilt but the birf on the drivers side is chattering when I turn corners...

Back to the issue, So when I was trying to do the timing yesterday I did get a code p0340 but I assumed this was due to me being off a tooth on the Wizz gear of the distributor. I cleared the codes and have since not had it appear. There were no codes up to this point on the rig after a month of driving

 

[jpoole]

Those plugs may be ashy from oil consumption. The most common source of oil consumption with these tends to be valve stem seals on engines where they haven't been changed in a long time. There could be other causes for the ashy deposits as well as other sources of oil in the combustion chamber. A gunked up combustion chamber won't typically cause noises but can contribute to pre detonation / pinging when running hot and hard.

Those plugs are all pretty old, as shown by how eroded the electrodes are. The electrode top starts off flat with sharp edges all around and yours look like they've been run far longer than the recommended interval. That wear essentially increases the resistance in the circuit and can cause misfires and hard starting when it's humid or the fuel mixture is too rich, etc. New plugs should help the engine run better

 

[flintknapper]

Those plugs may be ashy from oil consumption. The most common source of oil consumption with these tends to be valve stem seals on engines where they haven't been changed in a long time. There could be other causes for the ashy deposits as well as other sources of oil in the combustion chamber. A gunked up combustion chamber won't typically cause noises but can contribute to pre detonation / pinging when running hot and hard.

Those plugs are all pretty old, as shown by how eroded the electrodes are. The electrode top starts off flat with sharp edges all around and yours look like they've been run far longer than the recommended interval. That wear essentially increases the resistance in the circuit and can cause misfires and hard starting when it's humid or the fuel mixture is too rich, etc. New plugs should help the engine run better

^^^^^

Again, all exactly right. 👍

 

[BILT4ME]

Only 5 spark plugs in that engine..........

Spark plugs were worn out as the others said.

Need to consider replacing the spark plug tube seals since that will cause a vacuum leak.

Need new cap, rotor, and plug wires. Use Toyota if you can, as they tend to give better performance.

Did you pull the EFI fuse to clear all codes and settings? It will adjust up and down on RPM for a while until it relearns.

 

[Alberta4x4]

Hahaha yes 6th plug was already in the garbage by then😅

Ran the rig to the gym and back about 15 mins. My idle seems to have stopped the random surging. What is typical warm up rpms on these engines? mine was at around 1100 to 1200 rpm before I dropped it into drive.

Also I may have found what my engine noise is... what I have researched is it may be the powersteering gear knock or the oil pump....

1FZ Power steering pump

Ok, in regards to my last thread about the engine knock, I have concluded that it is not something internal. I unbolted the crank pulley and the noise stops. Even though there is some slight wobble in my crank pulley, I don't believe it could be making that much noise. Also, I unbolted the PS...

forum.ih8mud.com

So if I run the engine with the belts off the crank pulley and the sound disappears it's one of the two? Running it for a quick short period won't hurt it right. That's what I'm assuming just to diagnose the sound

 

[Alberta4x4]

Only 5 spark plugs in that engine..........

Spark plugs were worn out as the others said.

Need to consider replacing the spark plug tube seals since that will cause a vacuum leak.

Need new cap, rotor, and plug wires. Use Toyota if you can, as they tend to give better performance.

Did you pull the EFI fuse to clear all codes and settings? It will adjust up and down on RPM for a while until it relearns.

So Far I have installed
New plugs oem
Rotor and distributor cap and o ring oem

Plug wires were 360 bucks from my Toyota in Alberta so I said to hold on those. anyone know where I can get oem wires cheaper ?

Also I did not pull the efi fuse just the battery. Should I pull it for it to relearn with the changes?

 

[flintknapper]

Hahaha yes 6th plug was already in the garbage by then😅

Ran the rig to the gym and back about 15 mins. My idle seems to have stopped the random surging. What is typical warm up rpms on these engines? mine was at around 1100 to 1200 rpm before I dropped it into drive.

Also I may have found what my engine noise is... what I have researched is it may be the powersteering gear knock or the oil pump....

1FZ Power steering pump

Ok, in regards to my last thread about the engine knock, I have concluded that it is not something internal. I unbolted the crank pulley and the noise stops. Even though there is some slight wobble in my crank pulley, I don't believe it could be making that much noise. Also, I unbolted the PS...

forum.ih8mud.com

So if I run the engine with the belts off the crank pulley and the sound disappears it's one of the two? Running it for a quick short period won't hurt it right. That's what I'm assuming just to diagnose the sound

Correct idle speed (engine warm is about 650 rpm....no A/C). Mine (on a cool morning) will start about 1,000 rpm and drop to 650 when warm (Trans in neutral). It is common to have the idle surge and hunt after a battery disconnect or EFI fuse removal. The ECU will 'relearn' the idle after a few start/stop driving events.

I've had mine jump up to high as 2,000 rpm upon start up after a battery replacement, kinda scary. But it quickly settled down.

IF you remove the drive belts and A/C belt and your noise disappears then look to one of the accessories (anything belt driven or a pulley/idler/tensioner).

Your Oil Pump and Power Steering pump are both gear driven by the engine and it would not be those items.

 

[South Texas 97]

Check all your vacuum lines, there are a bunch of them under the hood. As part of my base lining I replaced as many of them as I could get to. Many were pretty crusty. There are a couple under the intake manifold left to change, they are hard to get to. Cheap and quick to do, some piece of mind.

 

[Alberta4x4]

Correct idle speed (engine warm is about 650 rpm....no A/C). Mine (on a cool morning) will start about 1,000 rpm and drop to 650 when warm (Trans in neutral). It is common to have the idle surge and hunt after a battery disconnect or EFI fuse removal. The ECU will 'relearn' the idle after a few start/stop driving events.

I've had mine jump up to high as 2,000 rpm upon start up after a battery replacement, kinda scary. But it quickly settled down.

IF you remove the drive belts and A/C belt and your noise disappears then look to one of the accessories (anything belt driven or a pulley/idler/tensioner).

Your Oil Pump and Power Steering pump are both gear driven by the engine and it would not be those items.

So the noise ended up being my power steering gear

Only 5 spark plugs in that engine..........

Spark plugs were worn out as the others said.

Need to consider replacing the spark plug tube seals since that will cause a vacuum leak.

Need new cap, rotor, and plug wires. Use Toyota if you can, as they tend to give better performance.

Did you pull the EFI fuse to clear all codes and settings? It will adjust up and down on RPM for a while until it relearns.

Hey man just read over this post again, and I must have missed the spark plug tube seals causing a vacuum leak. That would probably give me idle issue there right?

 

[BILT4ME]

So the noise ended up being my power steering gear

Hey man just read over this post again, and I must have missed the spark plug tube seals causing a vacuum leak. That would probably give me idle issue there right?

Yes, the spark plug tube seals create a huge vacuum loss and is evidenced by the oil soaked spark plugs where the wires go.

 

[Alberta4x4]

Okay Perfect, and as far as valve stem seals. How long of a repair do you figure that is? Weekend type thing or longer? And if I'm taking the head off should I have it rebuilt?

 

[BILT4ME]

Okay Perfect, and as far as valve stem seals. How long of a repair do you figure that is? Weekend type thing or longer? And if I'm taking the head off should I have it rebuilt?

You can do valve stem seals without removing the head.

Probably a weekend job if you're organized and have done things like that.

 

[flintknapper]

You can do valve stem seals without removing the head.

Probably a weekend job if you're organized and have done things like that.

It could be done over a weekend (head on). 👍

Recommend having the seals on hand (intake and exhaust seals are the same I.D. but exhaust is a larger bonnet).

Purchase a 'good' pair of valve stem seal pliers and eat your wheaties before removing them. They are likely rock hard and don't just jump off of their seats. The new ones go back on easily though. A lot of oil gets past Old Valve Stem Seals. Typical indication is a white/blue smoke at first start up, then subsides.

 

[Alberta4x4]

Thanks alot guys! Really appreciate it!