IH Travall bigger and badder than the Turd.
The climax of 4-Wheel-Drive ...
- Thread starter Asiarider
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Rokon Ranger is the most capable offroad vehicle ever offered to the American public. OK, it's a 2wd motorcycle with a low CG, fatty tires and super low gears, but it still wins IMHO.
Next in trail prowess:
Jeep Rubicon. Sorry, but it's got three factory lockers, excellent approach/departure angles, short wheelbase, tires and gears.
Next would be the FZJ80 with its three lockers and excellent articulation. Trail limiters are overhangs and size. And remember ya gotta rate it with the factory LTX tires..
Next would be the G Wagon with its three lockers and excellent articulation. Loses to FZJ barely due to smaller less torquey engine - talking the older models before M-B started importing them with the 60 series street rubber. Slap real tires on a current model with the honkin V8 and it would jump to #2, but that would violate the "stock from the factory" standard here.
Of course if you lose the "stock" aspect of the debate, then there's no point in asking because with enough money I can make a '69 Cheby Nova better on the trail than my #1 pick.....
DougM
Next in trail prowess:
Jeep Rubicon. Sorry, but it's got three factory lockers, excellent approach/departure angles, short wheelbase, tires and gears.
Next would be the FZJ80 with its three lockers and excellent articulation. Trail limiters are overhangs and size. And remember ya gotta rate it with the factory LTX tires..
Next would be the G Wagon with its three lockers and excellent articulation. Loses to FZJ barely due to smaller less torquey engine - talking the older models before M-B started importing them with the 60 series street rubber. Slap real tires on a current model with the honkin V8 and it would jump to #2, but that would violate the "stock from the factory" standard here.
Of course if you lose the "stock" aspect of the debate, then there's no point in asking because with enough money I can make a '69 Cheby Nova better on the trail than my #1 pick.....
DougM
I couldn't ever bring myself to submitting to buying a Jeep. I could never deal with the harassment from all of my friends and family members. I could probably be convinced to buy a Defender 90. I could yank the motor and electronics and get rid of those problems and I'd only be stuck with the corrosion issues. I really could buy into the Geladewagen thing or even better a Unimog. The downside of the Unimog is that it wouldn't fit on any of our local trails. I could very easily be swayed to a Nissan Patrol but we didn't get those over here. If I couldn't have a Cruiser, I'd probably buy a 4Runner. 
Read an article about our new governor (Arnold). Knew he has a H1 but he also has a tracked vehicle. Can't remember the brand, but something with tracks sounds mighty capable to me.
Ed
Ed
Just Googled Arnold's vehicles. It's a Pinzgauer. Not tracked but a 6 wheeler. 6X6!
Check it out at www.socalpinzgauers.com
Ed
Check it out at www.socalpinzgauers.com
Ed
>> Its 4Sale, first $1600 gets it <<
Kurt,
I'm interested. Does it leak? (... when full of all the vital fluids of course...)
-B-
Kurt,
I'm interested. Does it leak? (... when full of all the vital fluids of course...)
-B-
as far as 4 door wagons the G-wagon, 80 series and Defender are all fairly equal off road, all 3 are solid axle, coil sprung. The 80 and G are built to a better(much) standard then the Defender. THe Defender has a aluminum body as a +, so less rust. The G does not have the articulation of the 80 or Defender, but has diff locks(standard, with a few exception on older G's) so the G uses it's traction to make up for the articulation, 80 had diff locks as option. A diff locked 80 vrs a diff locked G.....the 80 would prolly be a bit better off road.
Parts are gonna be less and easier to find for the Cruiser, Defender is 2nd.......G is 3rd. Reilabilty........80 and G are prolly tied.
G has a beefier frame than the others. Defender......well it's English........nuff said
the Patrol is a good rig, similar to the above 3
Pajero is IFS, not in the same catigory.
Sami does not compare.
Rubicon, Hzj74, G-wagon 2 door and Defender 90 are similar, I would take the 74 anyday of the week, the G would be 2nd......not sure about the others 2....no interest.
Hummer.....too bloody wide but good for what its made for.
Unimog.......IMOP it's not in the same class, its bigger(thinking of a 416) than the above, in some cases a better wheeler.....if it fits, not nearly the comfort of the 3 above.
Tantra!!! now thats a badass machine!!! if you like 8 wheel drive and articulating cab
there are some Inveco's that are interesting but MUCH bigger than a 80.
am sure I fogot something.....
the above in just MY opinion A cruiser or a G are what I would take......looking at the G-wagon this weekend.....might be in my stable or not?
John H
Parts are gonna be less and easier to find for the Cruiser, Defender is 2nd.......G is 3rd. Reilabilty........80 and G are prolly tied.
G has a beefier frame than the others. Defender......well it's English........nuff said
the Patrol is a good rig, similar to the above 3
Pajero is IFS, not in the same catigory.
Sami does not compare.
Rubicon, Hzj74, G-wagon 2 door and Defender 90 are similar, I would take the 74 anyday of the week, the G would be 2nd......not sure about the others 2....no interest.
Hummer.....too bloody wide but good for what its made for.
Unimog.......IMOP it's not in the same class, its bigger(thinking of a 416) than the above, in some cases a better wheeler.....if it fits, not nearly the comfort of the 3 above.
Tantra!!! now thats a badass machine!!! if you like 8 wheel drive and articulating cab
there are some Inveco's that are interesting but MUCH bigger than a 80.
am sure I fogot something.....
the above in just MY opinion
A cruiser or a G are what I would take......looking at the G-wagon this weekend.....might be in my stable or not?John H
[quote author=Beowulf link=board=2;threadid=8137;start=msg68996#msg68996 date=1070077324]
>> Its 4Sale, first $1600 gets it <<
Kurt,
I'm interested. Does it leak? (... when full of all the vital fluids of course...)
-B-
[/quote]
Dose a bear eat in the woods
Only the intake,,,,oil gad and some exhaust!!!!
>> Its 4Sale, first $1600 gets it <<
Kurt,
I'm interested. Does it leak? (... when full of all the vital fluids of course...)
-B-
[/quote]
Dose a bear eat in the woods
Only the intake,,,,oil gad and some exhaust!!!!
Darn.
Well, I may still be interested. Would you mind taking a thermometer and measuring the air temperature coming out of the A/C vents and the heater vents? I'll also need you to get some of the Chevy guys (10 or 12) to measure their temperatures so I can compare and be assured that the TURD is putting out the optimum air temperatures.
Thanks, I knew you wouldn't mind.
-B-
Well, I may still be interested. Would you mind taking a thermometer and measuring the air temperature coming out of the A/C vents and the heater vents? I'll also need you to get some of the Chevy guys (10 or 12) to measure their temperatures so I can compare and be assured that the TURD is putting out the optimum air temperatures.
Thanks, I knew you wouldn't mind.
-B-
I guess that was a little vague.
Kurt... I'll send you PM with the precise instructions. Where to set the temp controls, what ambient temp you should shoot for, exact location for the temperature probe, etc.
And anyone that says 98.6 gets slapped.
-B-
Kurt... I'll send you PM with the precise instructions. Where to set the temp controls, what ambient temp you should shoot for, exact location for the temperature probe, etc.
And anyone that says 98.6 gets slapped.
-B-
Land pimp. i say get the G. G's are so sweet but in my opinion the older 4door g's arent as good loking as an 80. so if the 80 were locked i'd take the 80, and its probably cheaper but the 2 door g's definately look sweet. what do you think would be better offroad. the 2 door or 4 door G ? or even this. what do you think is better, a 2door g or an fj40. i'd be torn if i had to make that choice. or g's reliable as cruisers though and what is the aftermarket stuff like, seems like its hard to find lifts and such for g's....but hey if it wasnt a matter of money a G500 would be awesome...thats a beautiful truck right there.
thorvald
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havent seen pintos mentioned yet, WTF? 
landcruiser 40, 60, 80 or any other series, just havent tried any of the other numbers yet
landcruiser 40, 60, 80 or any other series, just havent tried any of the other numbers yet
Should also mention that I've owned and wheeled the following:
'90,91,92 4Runner
92,93 LandCruiser
Gen 1 and Gen 2 Montero/Pajero
And I've wheeled the following:
Hummer (orig H1) on AM General's factory obstacle course.
'01,02 Isuzu Amigo/Rodeo Sport - 10 days worth in Moab on 3-4 rated trails.
The Hummer was sensational - largely owing to the diesel. You bums overseas really have an advantage with those offroad. They simply idle over obstacles while threading the brakes where we gas-impaired types have to use the loud pedal as well. Many other limitations though, such as size and articulation. I also kicked a military version's butt in a snowy hillclimb challenge with my Montero (rear locker). Wasn't even close.
On the Defender 4 doors (110 model), I agree they're nice but would not put it with the G and 80 as its lack of lockers drops it well out of range.
Overall, I think the Rubicon can easily get more places than either the locked 80 or locked G, but I agree with John's placement of the G under the 80 closely. John, are they significantly less in absolute articulation, or do they simply have heavier springs and not use their articulation range as well as the 80? I've always felt the 80 was one of the best for using its full range of flex.
DougM
'90,91,92 4Runner
92,93 LandCruiser
Gen 1 and Gen 2 Montero/Pajero
And I've wheeled the following:
Hummer (orig H1) on AM General's factory obstacle course.
'01,02 Isuzu Amigo/Rodeo Sport - 10 days worth in Moab on 3-4 rated trails.
The Hummer was sensational - largely owing to the diesel. You bums overseas really have an advantage with those offroad. They simply idle over obstacles while threading the brakes where we gas-impaired types have to use the loud pedal as well. Many other limitations though, such as size and articulation. I also kicked a military version's butt in a snowy hillclimb challenge with my Montero (rear locker). Wasn't even close.
On the Defender 4 doors (110 model), I agree they're nice but would not put it with the G and 80 as its lack of lockers drops it well out of range.
Overall, I think the Rubicon can easily get more places than either the locked 80 or locked G, but I agree with John's placement of the G under the 80 closely. John, are they significantly less in absolute articulation, or do they simply have heavier springs and not use their articulation range as well as the 80? I've always felt the 80 was one of the best for using its full range of flex.
DougM
[quote author=Cruiserhead05 link=board=2;threadid=8137;start=msg69020#msg69020 date=1070081189]
Land pimp. i say get the G. G's are so sweet but in my opinion the older 4door g's arent as good loking as an 80. so if the 80 were locked i'd take the 80, and its probably cheaper but the 2 door g's definately look sweet. what do you think would be better offroad. the 2 door or 4 door G ? or even this. what do you think is better, a 2door g or an fj40. i'd be torn if i had to make that choice. or g's reliable as cruisers though and what is the aftermarket stuff like, seems like its hard to find lifts and such for g's....but hey if it wasnt a matter of money a G500 would be awesome...thats a beautiful truck right there.
[/quote]
I think the fj40 is one of the most beautifull 4x4's ever made, better looking than a G by far, but if you took a stock 2 door G against a stock fj40......I'm fairly sure the G would kick its butt off road. Personaly I am not wild about the looks of the 2 door G wagon.
A 2 door G would compare closely to a bj74. long wheel base G vrs short wheelbase G......both would have advantages off road, just like a 80 vrs a built 40, sometimes the long wheelbase is a real advantage......sometimes its a liabitlity. So hard to compare I think.
from what I can tell there isn;t much out there aftermarket wise for the G wagon, what there is is spendy! If I pick up the G-280.......its gonna stay stock.......but i have said that about quite a few cruisers before
Honestly I need the G wagon like a hole in my head, it really would acomplish very little for me......but its would be "cool" What I really need a 100 series, that makes sense, it will tow what I need(and I have nothing that can tow over 3k now) it will haul my clients in comfort. Its safe, has good suport, and its almost 20 years newer, and it's a Cruiser and I know Cruisers. yes a 100 is gonna cost me more but it really makes much more sense. The G-280 is gonna be old and slow. I WILL NOT get a G and a 100, it just makes no sense(in so many ways). If I got both.......something else needs to go away.....and I can't think of a Cruiser I really want to part with.......so you can see I still LOVE my Cruisers
So even if I love and want the G 280.....I might not get. Agreed a G-500 would be sweet, but 90k is just out of the question.
Land pimp. i say get the G. G's are so sweet but in my opinion the older 4door g's arent as good loking as an 80. so if the 80 were locked i'd take the 80, and its probably cheaper but the 2 door g's definately look sweet. what do you think would be better offroad. the 2 door or 4 door G ? or even this. what do you think is better, a 2door g or an fj40. i'd be torn if i had to make that choice. or g's reliable as cruisers though and what is the aftermarket stuff like, seems like its hard to find lifts and such for g's....but hey if it wasnt a matter of money a G500 would be awesome...thats a beautiful truck right there.
[/quote]
I think the fj40 is one of the most beautifull 4x4's ever made, better looking than a G by far, but if you took a stock 2 door G against a stock fj40......I'm fairly sure the G would kick its butt off road. Personaly I am not wild about the looks of the 2 door G wagon.
A 2 door G would compare closely to a bj74. long wheel base G vrs short wheelbase G......both would have advantages off road, just like a 80 vrs a built 40, sometimes the long wheelbase is a real advantage......sometimes its a liabitlity. So hard to compare I think.
from what I can tell there isn;t much out there aftermarket wise for the G wagon, what there is is spendy! If I pick up the G-280.......its gonna stay stock.......but i have said that about quite a few cruisers before
Honestly I need the G wagon like a hole in my head, it really would acomplish very little for me......but its would be "cool" What I really need a 100 series, that makes sense, it will tow what I need(and I have nothing that can tow over 3k now) it will haul my clients in comfort. Its safe, has good suport, and its almost 20 years newer, and it's a Cruiser and I know Cruisers. yes a 100 is gonna cost me more but it really makes much more sense. The G-280 is gonna be old and slow. I WILL NOT get a G and a 100, it just makes no sense(in so many ways). If I got both.......something else needs to go away.....and I can't think of a Cruiser I really want to part with.......so you can see I still LOVE my Cruisers
So even if I love and want the G 280.....I might not get. Agreed a G-500 would be sweet, but 90k is just out of the question.
Asiarider,
[quote author=IdahoDoug link=board=2;threadid=8137;start=msg68969#msg68969 date=1070074188]
Rokon Ranger is the most capable offroad vehicle ever offered to the American public. OK, it's a 2wd motorcycle with a low CG, fatty tires and super low gears, but it still wins IMHO.
...
[/quote]
I have ridden a Rokon it is a tractor. I can get my Yamaha WR250F to more places though. Carrying speed is crucial to traversing many trail obstacles on a 2 wheeled vehicle - and in that respect, the Rokon does not cut it.
BTW: The G wagon is the only vehicle from the list that you can shift from high to low on-the-fly.
Rokon Ranger is the most capable offroad vehicle ever offered to the American public. OK, it's a 2wd motorcycle with a low CG, fatty tires and super low gears, but it still wins IMHO.
...
[/quote]
I have ridden a Rokon it is a tractor. I can get my Yamaha WR250F to more places though. Carrying speed is crucial to traversing many trail obstacles on a 2 wheeled vehicle - and in that respect, the Rokon does not cut it.
BTW: The G wagon is the only vehicle from the list that you can shift from high to low on-the-fly.
I'm sure the Rokon can hit 45mph - how much 'carrying speed' do you need? If you're traversing obstacles at speed, I'd say you're not really on the type of obstacles serious 4wd trail work is associated. Think living room furniture size rocks.
Having said that, I'm sure there are a lot of obstacles a modern trail bike will traverse while leaving the Ranger behind, and fewer the other way around. The guy we watchd in Moab could get up a series of 12-18 inch steps and such but honestly was displaying skills that bespoke of a professional. Idling up that stuff at 3mph is not for the faint of heart as falling would mean quite a tumble for man and machine. I'm a competitive mtn biker and wouldn't consider it.
DougM
Having said that, I'm sure there are a lot of obstacles a modern trail bike will traverse while leaving the Ranger behind, and fewer the other way around. The guy we watchd in Moab could get up a series of 12-18 inch steps and such but honestly was displaying skills that bespoke of a professional. Idling up that stuff at 3mph is not for the faint of heart as falling would mean quite a tumble for man and machine. I'm a competitive mtn biker and wouldn't consider it.
DougM
Hitting 45 (if you select the high gear before you start) is a LOT different than carrying speed. My WR can hit 75~80MPH but it rarely does - it can also crawl at 1 MPH without stopping inbetween. If you try to take the Rokon over even a light rock field you will have to go SLOW as the only suspension is the tires themselves. Don't even think of jumping the Rokon, or even lofting the front wheel over an obstacle. There is a good reason that I have never seen one enetered in a Harescramble. That said, the rule of thumb on off-road motorcycles is 99% rider, 1% motorcycle - so I guess anything is possible.
A cool vehicle? Absolutely. "the most capable offroad vehicle ever offered to the American public"? Sorry.
A cool vehicle? Absolutely. "the most capable offroad vehicle ever offered to the American public"? Sorry.
