The 80 is high!!!

[Walking Eagle]

This is a great idea. What would be the right drop on a 6" lift to keep caster angle at factory spec.?

check this thread - yellow chaos went even higher

on second thought, don't check out that thread, check out steve-o's link, the other one has too much back and forth crap.

 

[Steve-O]

This is a great idea. What would be the right drop on a 6" lift to keep caster angle at factory spec.?

We have 4" drop brackets for that, and then you would add caster correction bushings to the control arms to make up the other 2 inches. Seeing as how ground clearance is always an issue, we are coming out with even more options first of the year.

In case you missed our other drop brackets: http://www.man-a-fre.com/pa/4plus80seriesdropbrackets.htm

 

[fj803fe]

No worries, Steve-O. It's good to know what is going to be available and put it into context.

As for my rig, it handles better with the Js and no rear bar that it handled stock. The springs are stiff enough to make up for it, it just feels a little different. I know that people have said that the swaybars don't effect flex that much, but I really noticed the bind have the swaybar on when I was changing the springs...

IMO, though I have not been as nit picky to pull out the tape measure-mine flexes WAY better w/o bars. I believe it has totally changed my off-road quality-harder lines are a bunch easier now (jump into the technicals on this now 80s list-I know you can't wait-your fingers are sweating aren't they...). I keep them on for road driving though.

I did not use any 4-Plus parts and I currently do not have any castor correction. To be honest, it drives like @&@&@&@&, but that may not be all the castors fault. I have a bent tie-rod, 3 of my wheels are missing weights and 1 or my wheels is bent. The scary thing is it still drives better than my other wheelers...

HA! sound identical to mine at the moment. I ordered select brackets for mine (still need to send back a doubled up set of rear drop brackets SORRY STEVE-O!) But I found I was landing on the front upper control arm bracket WAY too much-so much so, sliders would only be for looks at that point.

As for the drop arms, I have decided that I didn't want to go that way. Eventually I'm going to build a long-arm suspension. I think I can get more flex out of it and keep my ride quality without lowering as little as possible.
.

I am in the process of designing some rear arms to hug the frame a little closer and then bend to the lower axle bracketry, but have the rear upper control arm drop brackets. In this sense, during articulation both will respons similarly w/o dropping my already mangled underside. I installed the upper brackets first off then found this sorta problem limiting flex;

Rear uppers present like so...--
Lowers present like...\

You can see the binding issue if you think about the axle during articulation. A VERY rudementry sketch below. Let me know what you figure out for the "long arm" suspension-these arms are relatively long to begin with (as opposed to heep)-and the frame starts to pinch as you get further forward/away from the rear axle.

4 link? 3 link even? I did not see a whole bunch of options w/o hacking some of the orig frame cross-members away to fab some type of member to accept longer upper control arms-that and the gas tank issue. Move a tank to the stock spare living space and rid yourself of the stock tank...hmmmmmmmm. Plenty of options though-I am in the "whats the most bang for the least buck" mindset right now. that and your best bet for a 4-link is to have the uppers as.../\ and the lowers as...\/. Or the opposite for that matter.

 

[CreeperSleeper]

I am in the process of designing some rear arms to hug the frame a little closer and then bend to the lower axle bracketry, but have the rear upper control arm drop brackets. In this sense, during articulation both will respons similarly w/o dropping my already mangled underside. I installed the upper brackets first off then found this sorta problem limiting flex;

Rear uppers present like so...--
Lowers present like...\
QUOTE]

I agree. I would like to come up with a way to run a bar on the top that mounts to the center of the axle and goes to roughly where the factory upper control arms mount and then run longer control arms on the bottom. I think with this setup I can ditch the rear panhard... However, this is just laying in bed thinking, I will have to study it out.

 

[Walking Eagle]

HA! sound identical to mine at the moment. I ordered select brackets for mine (still need to send back a doubled up set of rear drop brackets SORRY STEVE-O!) But I found I was landing on the front upper control arm bracket WAY too much-so much so, sliders would only be for looks at that point..

? Front upper control arm bracket? There is the front control arm bracket, the upper rear, and the lower rear - which one are you talking about?

I am in the process of designing some rear arms to hug the frame a little closer and then bend to the lower axle bracketry, but have the rear upper control arm drop brackets. In this sense, during articulation both will respons similarly w/o dropping my already mangled underside. I installed the upper brackets first off then found this sorta problem limiting flex;

Rear uppers present like so...--
Lowers present like...\

Yep. Won't work that way. You've changed the upper arm pivot point lower, but done nothing with the lower. What shape the arms have really doesn't matter - from a suspension movement point of view. They can be curved, or straight, or go straight down then over, and the suspension movement will be the same. It's a matter of where the two pivot points are. If you leave the stock upper mounting, then put your arc'd lowers on, then it will work properly.

Or you could take the upper, arc it so that it ends up the same distance horizontally from the frame mount, and say 4" lower than stock, and then do the same with lowers. It'll articulate like it has a "standard" 4" lift, but it will have more clearance to the trailing arms. Like this - blue is normal, red is the arched arms. Course, you could also just move all the brackets up on the axle - effectively moving it down. The problem you're seeing is you're talking about running the yellow top and red bottom.

 

[fj803fe]

? Front upper control arm bracket? There is the front control arm bracket, the upper rear, and the lower rear - which one are you talking about?



Yep. Won't work that way. You've changed the upper arm pivot point lower, but done nothing with the lower. What shape the arms have really doesn't matter - from a suspension movement point of view. They can be curved, or straight, or go straight down then over, and the suspension movement will be the same. It's a matter of where the two pivot points are. If you leave the stock upper mounting, then put your arc'd lowers on, then it will work properly.

Or you could take the upper, arc it so that it ends up the same distance horizontally from the frame mount, and say 4" lower than stock, and then do the same with lowers. It'll articulate like it has a "standard" 4" lift, but it will have more clearance to the trailing arms. Like this - blue is normal, red is the arched arms. Course, you could also just move all the brackets up on the axle - effectively moving it down. The problem you're seeing is you're talking about running the yellow top and red bottom.

Yeah, I don't know why I was thinking it would alleviate-but you are correct. Moreover, even as one pivot is "fixed" if the A to B length of the bar is the same bent vs. strait-their arch paths are as well. Just throwing some odd ideas in my head to escape from my mundane outdoor world and back into a mathmatical cubicle Fuggered-I thought that idea was so cool for a while-until I drew it out on paper after your post... Why this did not pop into my head earlier is beyond me, I could have fingered it in junior high for cryin out loud .

 

[CreeperSleeper]

Well, just came back from the alignment shop... looks like an order will be made soon:

Left front- .14* Camber, -2.99* Caster
Right front- .01* Camber, -2.97* Caster
Total toe- -.25* (bent tie rod)

Left rear- -.37* Camber, .36* Toe
Right rear- -.5* Camber, -.37* Toe
Thrust angle- .36*

Any suggestions on what parts to buy?

 

[concretejungle]

Steve-o, hi-jacking this thread even more, you guys should put a link for 80 series products only. It would be really cool and easier to spend money if you could just see everything offered with one click.

Also, i'm seriously considering putting the control arms on top of the axle, but cutting the brackets from the axle housing and rewelding them on top of the axle housing, then flipping the arm. Shedguy says it works great for 6 inch lift.

 

[landtank]

Well, just came back from the alignment shop... looks like an order will be made soon:

Left front -2.99* Caster
Right front -2.97* Caster

What are your plans? As once you rotate that axle and get some of the bow out of the springs from the perches being at an angle you'll further raise that front and loose more caster.


If you want to maintain this height by adding shims to compensate for the height lost from more weight, you need 7* of correction.


If you don't think you would compensate for the height loss than 6* would work better.


I'd also get a protractor at sears and try and get a handle on what the drive angle is now at the front diff to include that in your decision making.

 

[enutter]

How much did that cost you?

 

[C6H12O6]

House remodel done or not, you gotta let me help you with this. I would really love to see what you end up doing and I'd love to check out what you've already done. We should get together one of these warmer days and bang some of this stuff out. I need to replace some fluids, tune-up, and tear into my doors to try and clean/lube the window tracks.

Let me know what you decide to do to wrangle the caster back in. I'd say we could pull my front arms and you could drive it with my OME bushings, but that isn't going to get you even close. This will be a fun one either way.

Steve

 

[Walking Eagle]

Yeah, I don't know why I was thinking it would alleviate-but you are correct. Moreover, even as one pivot is "fixed" if the A to B length of the bar is the same bent vs. strait-their arch paths are as well. Just throwing some odd ideas in my head to escape from my mundane outdoor world and back into a mathmatical cubicle Fuggered-I thought that idea was so cool for a while-until I drew it out on paper after your post... Why this did not pop into my head earlier is beyond me, I could have fingered it in junior high for cryin out loud .

The arched lower arms is still a good idea. Someone offers them for Troopers, which have a simular set up, and suffer the same damage.

 

[e9999]

Well, just came back from the alignment shop... looks like an order will be made soon:

Left front- .14* Camber, -2.99* Caster
Right front- .01* Camber, -2.97* Caster
Total toe- -.25* (bent tie rod)

Left rear- -.37* Camber, .36* Toe
Right rear- -.5* Camber, -.37* Toe
Thrust angle- .36*

Any suggestions on what parts to buy?

wow!
-3 deg on the caster...!
that's pretty low with 3.5", isn't it? you must have been pretty low to start with...
even Christo's plates at 4deg may not be enough...
better start putting weight up front

 

[fj803fe]

wow!
-3 deg on the caster...!
that's pretty low with 3.5", isn't it? you must have been pretty low to start with...
even Christo's plates at 4deg may not be enough...
better start putting weight up front

Well, just came back from the alignment shop... looks like an order will be made soon:

Left front- .14* Camber, -2.99* Caster
Right front- .01* Camber, -2.97* Caster
Total toe- -.25* (bent tie rod)

Left rear- -.37* Camber, .36* Toe
Right rear- -.5* Camber, -.37* Toe
Thrust angle- .36*

Any suggestions on what parts to buy?

Heck, leave it. Fix if you want but I wouldn't get too wrapped up in obtaining the perfect degree. Anything to "bring it in range" of stock is going a long way. I've been on Js with spacers and no caster correction going on 4 years now. As far as I know ActionJackson is over 6" of lift w/ no correction either. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

[Steve-O]

Steve-o, hi-jacking this thread even more, you guys should put a link for 80 series products only. It would be really cool and easier to spend money if you could just see everything offered with one click.

Also, i'm seriously considering putting the control arms on top of the axle, but cutting the brackets from the axle housing and rewelding them on top of the axle housing, then flipping the arm. Shedguy says it works great for 6 inch lift.

Yeah I'm working on that, I wanted to have links for 40, 60, 62, 80, 100, etc. I just need to find time to do it. Maybe I'll start with the 80 section for you.

I have seen a few rigs with the control arms on top of the axle, personally I have never been in a rig with that set-up. I think its a good idea, but sounds like a lot of work.

 

[speyrod]

Chad, looks great although the 33's look a little small now.

 

[CreeperSleeper]

Perhaps, but I can still stuff tires at flex!

fj803fe- I've thought about that... now that the tires are rebalanced it doesn't drive that badly. However I know getting some toe-in would help with my wandering. Apparently I had two bent wheels and the other two tires had been spun on the rim. Add the missing wheel weights and it was like riding on a washing machine.

 

[concretejungle]

Thanks Steve, just a suggestions. I mean, you do want our money don't you?!

Yes, after reading and researching, knowing some day i'll go 6 inches of lift, seems like by using a dial protractor like the one pictured below, so long as you remained in a flat garage so the variable of surface pitch/tilt remained constant; plan is to measure the castor using the protractor before cutting the bracketry off, then after it's been cut off, line the front axle back up and have it on jack stands. Then tilt it until it gets to the same angle as the previous readings before hacking off the brackets. Once you get it angled (for castor) just right, tack the brackets, then lay some bead. Flip the arms over and you are good to go.

This should take out any work of trying to dial the castor in using different plates, drop brackets and arms. Plus it should give a little extra ground clearance also.

 

[C6H12O6]

Time for beadlocks? Did you get rid of your stock rims already? Might be a good idea to run a mellower tire on the street on DOT-legal rims and Your 37" Gumbo Swampers on beadlocks. Although that would mean a lot of wheel swapping for you.

Anybody tried or heard much about the Staun internal bead locks? Probably not DOT approved, but how would anybody know?

 

[CreeperSleeper]

Actually I think they are DOT approved... For my, however, I like to do things ghetto... I'm going to use sheetmetal screws.