Talk me down...or up (1 Viewer)

[jatree]

So I’ve been off and on looking for a while now and came across this LX 450 at a used car dealership about an hour away from me. Well I spent the majority of the last couple days doing my due diligence and reading every single thread and resource I could find since I’m pretty green (thank you mud, slee and google). Then I went and looked at it in person today. This forum is a big source of inspiration for me so I thought I’d present it to the experts for some opinions, snide remarks, and the usual.

Here are the basics:

• 1997 LX 450 with 3-4 owners (according to CarFax and Autocheck)
• 195,xxx miles
• Black with gray cladding
• Brown leather interior
• No F/R lockers
• Factory roof rack

History (of present illness)
It started as a north Texas vehicle, had a lien on it and was repossessed and auctioned off after which it ended up in the PNW. Two owners up here. Then, according to the salesman, sold to a Nissan dealer which is apparently where they got it from. “Nissan didn’t want to sell a Toyota.” He was quite nice and helpful overall.

The only helpful pieces of history from the CarFax are:

• @169k: Drive belts checked. Oil and filter changed. Drive belt (s) replaced. Spark plug (s) replaced. Fluids checked. Tire condition and pressure checked
• @187k: Drive belt (s) replaced. Valve cover gasket (s) replaced. Crankshaft oil seal (s) replaced. Oil and filter changed. Engine oil/ fluid leak checked. PCV valve replaced. Brakes checked. Engine oil leak repaired. Fluids checked. Front crankshaft oil seal replaced. Tire condition and pressure checked

So that’s the extent of the history, not much and no owner to speak with (not my ideal situation, I usually only search for For Sale by Owner).

First Look
Fast forward to today. The plan was to see it, inspect and drive. Gauge if they’d come down to my price range and if those are all checkmarks, then pay for an inspection.

My first impression was pretty positive. I’ve only seen a few in person since becoming addicted but this had one of the cleanest interiors (apart from the beautiful JDM). The outside was ok, lot of little nicks and scratches. But no rust underneath! And the knuckles looked good, no caked on dirt and grease. Just a little fading on the hood. Both axles looked clean, no rust.

No rust bubbles in the usual spots. The windows were super slow and sticky but the moonroof opened fine. The wood grain was in tact. Leather in most places needed conditioning but no rips. No sign of sunroof or windshield leakage. Just tired rubber gaskets.

In the engine bay, I poked around but mainly just checked the oil before and after. One plastic receptacle up front (coolant?) was pretty much empty. I tried to visualize the PHH but the hood wasn’t staying up so gave up in the rain. Old battery. Seemed like a little oil dripping under the right side of the engine block (confirmed when I moved it out to drive).

Full size old tire as spare with some rusted out wheel underneath.

Now apparently it’s just been sitting for months so they had to jump it but then it started right up and began smoking up a storm for the next several minutes. The CEL was on. Salesman says it’s for an O2 sensor but I didn’t ask to run for the code right then.

I checked electrical inside, all lights and heater and AC worked. Even the radio despite the snapped antenna that didn’t go up or down.

Then I drove. It wasn’t a great place for a drive due to traffic but first impression was it felt unwieldy steering and soft suspension-wise. Probably original and I had factored in new springs a and small lift into my budget. It accelerated, shifted and stopped smoothly. Quieter than the two Toyota’s I drove.

I had zero issues while driving. Didn’t have room to go above 65 briefly but felt great. Sat in traffic without trouble. Rear heat worked to an extent but front was great along with defrosters. Overall, I enjoyed driving it once I got used to the body. I've driven larger trucks before but this took getting used to.

Unfortunately, the tale pauses there.

----

I went back to the lot and made sure they would be willing to come down from the $8k list price. Then I call the nearest mechanic, which happens to be a Lexus dealer, and they say come in now and we can do a used car inspection today. The valet was very excited to see a 450, said he thought it looked like I came from the desert. But when I show up inside, they say it’s too late in the day and they’re too busy. I call around to the local Toyota shops further away, all busy for several days.

I ask the guy if they’d be willing to do a combustive gas leak test on another day - nope, we never do those or compression tests, etc. I tried to squeeze it in today and was hoping I'd get a thumbs up from the mechanic and drive it straight home but no luck. Not sure how in-depth their inspection is anyway but it was better than I could do crawling on the wet cement without jacks.

I’m going out of town this weekend so now I have a week to ponder and wonder if it will even be available when I get back. But maybe it's not meant to be or maybe one of you bastards will get it. I've had that happen to me once before!

Context
I don’t currently have a garage I can work out of. I’m new to the area and live in the urban core. But that also means I don’t need a car for my day to day. Indeed I sold my last vehicle over two years ago. But I'm moving further out soon and like to get out on the weekends to hike and explore and want to start doing longer trips. So while I know it’s a risk to buy something that I can’t do allll of the work for, I am still mechanically inclined and would like to do what I can while learning along the way. If I can get this $2,500 under my budget, then I think that would go a long way towards getting the big stuff at this age taken care of so I can start the fun of building it up to explore/overland/camp. Knowing what I know currently, I would re-do the brakes, potentially new tires and wheels, and investigate whether front-axle needs re-building. Over the next year I would think about a preventative HG job. Beyond that I plan to build my own storage system and go from there.

So if you made it through all that rambling, I’d like to ask you experts the following. Really this whole post is to give you all something fun to read as you hit refresh on a Friday night And I do apologize for the length, I had a bit of travel so I'm writing this on my phone

1. Anything in the above set alarm bells off for you?
2. Did I miss anything?
3. Does the price sound fair? I’m sure some of you would drive it right off the lot with only your own inspection but I’m just too much a newb at this stage, maybe on my next one.

 

[Qball]

8k is a bit high, but if it’s well maintained and rust free then might be worth while. Bring a blanket or carboard and go under to look for RUST!

 

[chap79]

If the truck had any service performed at the Lexus dealership and you have the VIN you can register at drivers.lexus.com and view the service history. As for price, it's subjective. How much do you pay for jeans?

 

[YMT]

LC prices tend to vary by region. TX has higher resale prices than NM and AZ, for instance. From what little I've looked, the PNW is higher too.
That said, and based on your description, I think 8k is too high- with the miles, I'd want an immaculate body and/or interior. Have you check kbb.com or nadaguides.com for what you can expect to pay from a dealer? Often, since dealers are working for commission, they are more expensive than private party sales.
You could find a reputable shop, non dealer, to give it a once over. I'd suggest checking out the clubhouse pages, and someone on there will possibly be able to direct you to a shop that deals with LCs. Even a knowledgeable mud member might check it out with you (and show you the ropes).
Based on your test drive when you said it felt unwieldy, that could be something wrong, or just a difference in what else you've driven. I would check out the suspension to be sure- that me be the best avenue to haggle over price

 

[pgmatt]

Have you ever driven a FZJ80? I had not prior to buying my LX450 a decade ago. The stock suspension combined with not having driven a solid front axle truck in a long time made for a terrifying experience. It felt like a brick on jello. I would wait and try to get a compression test done along with a a thorough mechanical inspection as it could save you a major bill if the engine has issues and puts you in a good bargaining position given there will be in the least some minor issues.

 

[LINUS]

If it's on a lot in Aurora, run away.

That one used to alternate between 4999-5999 on CL, I'd scouted it 3-4mo back, has a HG issue (or did).
The jackass insisted it just needed Barr's in the radiator, I smiled, gave him a bewildered nod like I had zero clue what that is, and walked back to my Tundra (was playing 'ignorant' to see what slipped out of his mouth - so I didn't drive my 80 there) -besides that usually is a sign to those pricks something is going on.

1997 black/tan 450, had a receiver & no lockers, seems a scuff on a rear plastic bumper corner too. Or a slight dent in tailgate - something was a little booger'd in back, that I remember.

The one I saw had 209K on the odometer then IIRC.

I was scouting for a member in Nebraska, I told him flatly between codes (brought my reader) & the overflow bottle it just was suspect, not horrible but not pristine.

He didn't buy for whatever the lowest the lot went, plus he wanted to drive an 80 home.

There's a slightly rusty black 450 near me with just over 200K (I think) for $5K

I know little, never looked in person. I stopped texting him when he started giving 'the story' on the rust.

I'm in Skagit Co - if you're close enough I have seen a couple 80's & can give you a 2nd pair of eyes / let you drive my 80 & see what a solid one sounds & drives like.

LMK, doing boat work over weekend & it's cold AF - not what I want to be doing.

 

[IndecentExposur]

I've been watching the used market for 80's for a while. Still do for fun.

You should expand your search to other dry states (co, nm, az, nv). If you're okay with non lockers, there are lots of good options. Even here in CO, lots of really well maintained machines for less than 9k.

Lockers seem to pull a 3k-5k premium here.

 

[Aloha Jen]

No pictures = big yawn

 

[nukegoat]

No pictures = big yawn

Blacklx450.jpg

 

[ThomasMore66]

Needs pics, but you haven’t frightened me yet. Are you close to @torfab? I’m sure they’d inspect it. IME, the suspension on these things can all be fixed and you can drive them forever. That’s my plan. I have two.

 

[Maozebong]

For what it's worth, I was 80 shopping in the Puget sound last year. Every single 80 at a dealer came from an auction and they knew no history on it, and they had a myriad of problems if they asked anything less than 10k for it. Literally never trust a used car lot, I saw 15 different 80s last year over a 3 month period at car lots before I stopped going to them.

every single one had clicking birfs, mushy brakes, abs/engine lights on, low/no coolant in the overflow, and catastrophic leaks at the timing cover caked in 15 years of dirt and grime. Many lied about rust and said it had none when evap lines above the tank are rotting. The few i saw with lockers didn't even have them working. I saw a single one that didn't need any repairs at Lexus of Bellevue, listing in at 14k w/130k miles. If an established dealer wants 14k for a good one, imagine what a scumbag car lot will gouge you for a trashed one.

Moral of the story is buy from a private party. They are more likely to be honest, and they also are more likely to have cared about the vehicle and even kept records.

 

[ThomasMore66]

I bought one from a consignment shop. It was better maintained than the private party purchase.

 

[jatree]

Update, pictures and new challenger
So before I head back and attempt a real inspection, thought I'd update with some pictures. The main update I have is that I now believe I can get the 450 for significantly less than $8k...which changes things. Still open to mechanic recommendations in the Tacoma area.

Pictures in album here: https://forum.ih8mud.com/media/albums/potential-lx450.6123/

From first look:

• Interior is good
• CEL on
• Slight oil leak, not sure from where yet
• Doubt PHH done
• Brakes and Suspension need improvement
• Needs battery

I will also be comparing it to an FZJ80 that looks very dealer-detailed. I have not seen it in person but learned that it's had 6 owners! One area of rust bubble (under rear window) but the rest looks pretty good from the pictures for the price.

Thoughts?


@LINUS Thank you for the offer! It sounds somewhat similar to the one you describe but down in Tacoma. No rust, less miles (barely) but it did have the CEL on - I didn't have a scanner but guy claimed it was O2 sensor. That will be part of my inspection. How'd the boat work go?

Have you ever driven a FZJ80? I had not prior to buying my LX450 a decade ago. The stock suspension combined with not having driven a solid front axle truck in a long time made for a terrifying experience. It felt like a brick on jello. I would wait and try to get a compression test done along with a a thorough mechanical inspection as it could save you a major bill if the engine has issues and puts you in a good bargaining position given there will be in the least some minor issues.

A brick on jello is such a perfect description of my experience. I've driven a couple Land Cruisers (but only on test drives) - how much does an improved suspension and steering stabiliser improve that feeling in your experience? Did you get used to it?

No pictures = big yawn

updated!

For what it's worth, I was 80 shopping in the Puget sound last year. Every single 80 at a dealer came from an auction and they knew no history on it, and they had a myriad of problems if they asked anything less than 10k for it. Literally never trust a used car lot, I saw 15 different 80s last year over a 3 month period at car lots before I stopped going to them.

every single one had clicking birfs, mushy brakes, abs/engine lights on, low/no coolant in the overflow, and catastrophic leaks at the timing cover caked in 15 years of dirt and grime. Many lied about rust and said it had none when evap lines above the tank are rotting. The few i saw with lockers didn't even have them working. I saw a single one that didn't need any repairs at Lexus of Bellevue, listing in at 14k w/130k miles. If an established dealer wants 14k for a good one, imagine what a scumbag car lot will gouge you for a trashed one.

Moral of the story is buy from a private party. They are more likely to be honest, and they also are more likely to have cared about the vehicle and even kept records.

That sounds pretty bad - hope you were able to score one though? I definitely would prefer private party but don't seem to have much choice in the area. I am expanding my search as a poster above suggested but in many cases, the local buyer with cash is going to win out.

Come to think of it, the LX450 also had no coolant in the overflow (is that the plastic bottle to the left of the radiator?)

 

[jatree]

edit

 

[Red Merle]

It looks very clean. I would bet the motor has been detailed, but if it hasn't that is really clean. If it runs and drives well and is rust free, that one is worth anything under $8K and would be a good deal at that price.

The one in Portland looks solid too. Just know that you will have some costs once you obtain one but it's all just bolts and the parts aren't bad enough in price that tackling a few projects to improve somethings isn't unreasonable.

I bet both of those trucks need axle jobs and I bet there are other things that are getting long in the tooth that you'll note, once the Armor All starts to fade.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Definitely should not feel like a brick on jello.

Yeah, they are a big car, definitely not a sports car, but if the front end is tight, you should be able to drive confidently with 2 fingers on the wheel. Should not be a nerve wracking ride. May be as simple as loose wheel bearings, May be more to it.


The lx looks likely that it's all original underneath/front end. Black springs and shocks?

Given age, and miles, I'd factor in cost of doing the following in fairly short order.

- full knuckle rebuild, including tie rod ends, trunions, knuckle studs. Also consider new rotors and caliper rebuild.
-new springs and shocks, and steering damper
- new bushes in the suspension, radius arms, panhard rod
(Most of this can be done by a competent shade tree mechanic over a couple of weekends, if you have tools and somewhere to work)

Chugging smoke on start up, and empty overflow bottle is a red flag for me.
If it needs major engine work, it's going to be $$$ and time of the road even if you can tackle it yourself

 

[LINUS]

That 2nd one has been "shine sauced" but it doesn't look bad - I'd do the carfax & make the drive over it IMO.

Really slide under the truck, bring a flashlight, look all over the underside. They detail cars but generally not well enough for a determined guy who will slide under & look for issues.

I have a shakedown test I do that my brother inlaw hates - the full 50mph panic stop, etc - he knows we don't take the kids when we go car shopping.

Drive it like a rental for a 10 mile loop, that usually says it all.

Also, I'd play a little defense & kill the link to the CL one, buy yourself a little time to chase it.

 

[Dirty Koala]

I would expand your search to all of the states outside of the rust belt, get a trusted mud member to check it out, strike a deal and then either fly out and drive it home or pay someone to deliver it for you. I would rather pay a premium getting the right cruiser than settle for whatever is nearby.

All three of my cruisers have been cross country endeavors (South to North and West to East)

 

[TheAmerican]

Didn't read the whole thread but If you're around the Puyallup area feel free to pm me if you want to come drive mine for comparison. 2.5 lift, 35's etc

 

[pgmatt]

The stock Lexus shock valving was atrocious as they tried to make it super soft ‍ I also later found a broken spring Doing a full knuckle job, steering component replacement (tie rods etc) and in my case a Ironman 2” lift kit made a world of difference. The front end is generally a given to overhaul on any older vehicle so not a big deal. $500 ish in parts and a weekend getting familiar with the FJ80 front end