steering problems

[notaf-ingjeep]

All right, I've been on this suspension and wanted to upgrade my heims. This got me going on my steering, as my heims would make a good unit there. I got some free 1.5" solid aluminum hex I can make some new tie rods with.

I have had the "death wobble" I added that to bad alignment. I am using the cruiser power steering, with the push-pull box in the fender. That little bearing case that is mounted in the front d.s. frame rail and crossmember, has the 2nd pitman arm, is broken. My spring hits that tie rod end, under heavy articulation, and broke or bent that unit. I think a heim there would give me close to an inch of clearance, but a whole new steering system would be better. I'm looking for a new "bearing case" locally, hopefully super cheap, just as a bandaid for now.

I don't know I really dont want a scout box, or some kind of a mopar unit. No on a full hydro system, I don't like that idea, if my engine dies, no steering! Hydro assist would be cool but not the priority right now. So I'm thinking either a Chev saginaw box, or a better Toyota unit. An ifs would be cool, heard an fj60 unit would be good. I might be very interested in an fj60 box, not familiar with it. I have allways been torn on this decision, that is why it's never been done. Any suggestions?

I am running the front fj40 springs, my hanger is the stock, mounted flush at the end of the frame. I want a box that will be in the best position to avoid this problem. Also quickest and cleanest to install. I could change the suspension a bit, but it is just right as is. Well..... other than this problem hitting the tie rod end on the pitman arm. I am gonna' do some new steering arms, mounting the tie rod behind the axle, above the springs. Just want the best setup to fix my problem, hate the "death wobble". I need a solid steering, with no slop in the wheel, or wander.

 

[inkpot]

Howdy! I don't know if you could do in on a 40 series with a 2F, but I have a Saginaw box inboard mounted. Right where that bellcrank assembly is, I mounted the box from a 77 Chevy full size sedan. I also used a BTB drop pitman, and I have no clearance problems, even when I stuff the front DS tire all the way. John

 

[Mace]

All right, I've been on this suspension and wanted to upgrade my heims. This got me going on my steering, as my heims would make a good unit there. I got some free 1.5" solid aluminum hex I can make some new tie rods with.

Heims suck compared to TRE's for steering. They work, but are not nearly as safe. 1.5 AL hex would be a good Drag link and Tie Rod

I have had the "death wobble" I added that to bad alignment. I am using the cruiser power steering, with the push-pull box in the fender. That little bearing case that is mounted in the front d.s. frame rail and crossmember, has the 2nd pitman arm, is broken. My spring hits that tie rod end, under heavy articulation, and broke or bent that unit. I think a heim there would give me close to an inch of clearance, but a whole new steering system would be better. I'm looking for a new "bearing case" locally, hopefully super cheap, just as a bandaid for now.

DW is because of loose "stuff" among other things. Loose TRE's can easily do it. Keeping the intermediate box (that pivot on the DS framerail) is not a good idea on even a mild rig...

Sell your stock PS system. You can sell it for about the same price as all of the replacement parts to redo your steering.

I don't know I really dont want a scout box, or some kind of a mopar unit. No on a full hydro system, I don't like that idea, if my engine dies, no steering! Hydro assist would be cool but not the priority right now. So I'm thinking either a Chev saginaw box, or a better Toyota unit. An ifs would be cool, heard an fj60 unit would be good. I might be very interested in an fj60 box, not familiar with it. I have allways been torn on this decision, that is why it's never been done. Any suggestions?

Go saginaw (gm car, or scout) or go FJ60. It is all debatable which is better. IFS toy would not be cool. The arm swings the wrong way.

BTW, Full hydro has steering if the motor dies, it is just hard. And hydro assist is not overly tough (or expensive) if you watch for deals and do things yourself.

I am running the front fj40 springs, my hanger is the stock, mounted flush at the end of the frame. I want a box that will be in the best position to avoid this problem. Also quickest and cleanest to install. I could change the suspension a bit, but it is just right as is. Well..... other than this problem hitting the tie rod end on the pitman arm. I am gonna' do some new steering arms, mounting the tie rod behind the axle, above the springs. Just want the best setup to fix my problem, hate the "death wobble". I need a solid steering, with no slop in the wheel, or wander.

There is no "best" box. GM SAg, Scout 2 sag and FJ60 all work very well. Just design it well and DW will be gone (also address the alignment issue and make sure everything is tight).

 

[inkpot]

I agree with Mace , but I'm confused on how you can get any steering on full hydro when the engine is dead. There is no physical connection between the steering and the axle. ??? John

 

[Mace]

The fluid still flows. It sucks, but it does work.

 

[mookie]

i think it depends on your orbital valve, some have some kind of a back-up that pushes the fluid inside of them, others won't do anything when the motor is dead.....mine has it and it's brutally hard but it does work

 

[Mace]

You are referring to load reactive and non load reactive.

Both do have steering if the motor dies..

 

[notaf-ingjeep]

All of my rod ends were tight it was just that pivot box that seems to cause the slop in the wheel. You can see it move side to side. I think I will look into the fj60 box more, the gm seems like a good choice. My stock steering box is tight, so I might sell it.

Would the p.s. pump I have work with the fj60 box? I don't know if it is an fj40 part or an older mini truck part. It was on there when I bought the cruiser.

Are you sure about the ifs box, turning the wrong way? I Know that my friends used an Ifs box on their mini trucks. One even had the same over-under steering arms I have. He just had to weld the little bracket to the frame for mounting the box. I just can't see how it would differ from what I would need. His steering was just like mine would be.

 

[Mace]

All of my rod ends were tight it was just that pivot box that seems to cause the slop in the wheel. You can see it move side to side. I think I will look into the fj60 box more, the gm seems like a good choice. My stock steering box is tight, so I might sell it.

Would the p.s. pump I have work with the fj60 box? I don't know if it is an fj40 part or an older mini truck part. It was on there when I bought the cruiser.

Are you sure about the ifs box, turning the wrong way? I Know that my friends used an Ifs box on their mini trucks. One even had the same over-under steering arms I have. He just had to weld the little bracket to the frame for mounting the box. I just can't see how it would differ from what I would need. His steering was just like mine would be.

To make a minitruck box fit a FJ you would have to mount it right behind the front bumper with the steering shaft running through a hole in your front bib for the steering shaft.

PS box will most likely not work all that well with hydro assist.

 

[Tapage]

just for your consideration ..

After my hydro assist steering no more DW .. even if I loose all my balance weight on my tires ..

 

[bustanutley]

Mini truck boxes look really really dumb on a 40

Full hydro is the best solution for a wheeling truck

 

[notaf-ingjeep]

Mini truck boxes look really really dumb on a 40

Full hydro is the best solution for a wheeling truck

It's just too much for me. My cruiser is pretty built, but I wanted it to still be street useable for now. It is nice to just drive from spot to spot sometimes. Only on 35" tires full hydro is overkill, and I understand it has a delay. I dont know how serious it is, but a delay in the steering on the road is no good.

I'm all for hydro assist though. Does the ram act like a steering dampener at all? Or is it too solid for that?

I don't know how big of tires I'll ever run on this cruiser. Maybe up to 38" at some point, but I would want to buggy it out totally. I dont want to lift it any higher, with all my flex it needs nothing in the way to clear them. My frame is about 24" off the ground, my skid is lower because she's all cruiser under there.

I had some wrong ideas about the scout box though, I may consider it. It seems almost the easiest to install! Your right the ifs box would be ugly mounted clear out there on the frame. My cruiser is almost all toyota still, I was taking that into consideration.

Whats easier to install the scout, or fj-60 box? The chev box looks clean but also like a lot of work.

 

[Tapage]

I'm all for hydro assist though. Does the ram act like a steering dampener at all? Or is it too solid for that?

yes it does ..

the delay could be due to low flow pumps .. or bigger bore piston or both .. but it's a flow issue that can be solved anysecond ..

 

[Mace]

It's just too much for me. My cruiser is pretty built, but I wanted it to still be street useable for now. It is nice to just drive from spot to spot sometimes. Only on 35" tires full hydro is overkill, and I understand it has a delay. I dont know how serious it is, but a delay in the steering on the road is no good.

No delay in full hydro.

I'm all for hydro assist though. Does the ram act like a steering dampener at all? Or is it too solid for that?

It's the most effecive steering dampner known to man..

I don't know how big of tires I'll ever run on this cruiser. Maybe up to 38" at some point, but I would want to buggy it out totally. I dont want to lift it any higher, with all my flex it needs nothing in the way to clear them. My frame is about 24" off the ground, my skid is lower because she's all cruiser under there.

My frame is 22" tot he ground on 40" tires.. Lots room there.

I had some wrong ideas about the scout box though, I may consider it. It seems almost the easiest to install! Your right the ifs box would be ugly mounted clear out there on the frame. My cruiser is almost all toyota still, I was taking that into consideration.

Whats easier to install the scout, or fj-60 box? The chev box looks clean but also like a lot of work.

Scout and 60 box installs are almost identical.

Sometimes, keeping things toyota is shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[bustanutley]

Only on 35" tires full hydro is overkill, and I understand it has a delay. I dont know how serious it is, but a delay in the steering on the road is no good.

Not true, if anything, full hydro is too quick. It would be overkill with 35’s.

With the correct load reacting box, full hydro rocks for any use, I would drive a truck on the street with a properly setup full hydro setup.

I'm all for hydro assist though. Does the ram act like a steering dampener at all? Or is it too solid for that?

Yes the ram acts as a damper, you should have 0 death wobble problems with Hydro assist. My system works very well with 40s. Variable rate 3 turn Sagnaw box off a TJ, 1.75” PSC ram, and ham can PS sag pump. The only complaint is that it can be slow when rallying, its hard to explain the slowness without driving a truck. Its not often I run into the slowness. The other thing about hyro assist, is that its just a lot of stuff to fit on the truck.

I don't know how big of tires I'll ever run on this cruiser. Maybe up to 38" at some point, but I would want to buggy it out totally. I dont want to lift it any higher, with all my flex it needs nothing in the way to clear them. My frame is about 24" off the ground, my skid is lower because she's all cruiser under there.

Only an issue if you make it an issue. My cruiser is lower than that on 40s with plenty of uptravel..

I had some wrong ideas about the scout box though, I may consider it. It seems almost the easiest to install! Your right the ifs box would be ugly mounted clear out there on the frame. My cruiser is almost all toyota still, I was taking that into consideration.

Scout box is pretty similar to an FJ60 box. Both are a good choice. Pick which ever is cheaper. The all Toyota argument is tired and silly.

Whats easier to install the scout, or fj-60 box? The chev box looks clean but also like a lot of work.

Same. My GM TJ whatever box wasn’t much work

 

[bustanutley]

dammit mace, why do you always tap into my brain?

 

[Mace]

LOL

I wanna be you, so I just try to think like you do..

I just do it faster..

 

[notaf-ingjeep]

Yeah, my tires rub the fenders before my coilovers bottom. I could do some custom fenders and change up the cage a bit. I could only drop the frame a little with my leaf springs in front with shorter shackles. I would be better off doing a linkage up front in order drop the frame.

I have to say I'm a bit blown away by how low your frame is Mace! Damn on 40" tires even, impressive!

I have always liked my front set up, other than the steering problems we're discussing. A linkage in front would be cool and fun to build. I built my rear 4-link to match the front as well. It is time to wheel now though, I'm itching to rally this thing! The seasons almost over in Northern Utah, I hate winter. Full hydro sounds cool, I have always thought assist. I have a want ad out for a good box, listed today. We will see if I find what I want This stuff is popular out here, junk yards get cleaned out quick. Most good stuff never even hits the yard, and gets cleaned out by the "in crowd" at the junkyard.

I would have to do a lot more research before attacking a full hydro set up. I would want it done right the first time. I have never seen it on a "straight" 2f engine, definitely not the power of the 350. I wouldn't imagine it to be a problem. Mace has a 2f, with a TURBO, right? Not quite the same as mine right now!

 

[Tapage]

Honestly .. with a good pump and a decent piston, I don't think you really need go full hydro in you Cruiser . just ,y .002 cents ..

BTW what PS pump are you running right now .. ?

 

[notaf-ingjeep]

Honestly .. with a good pump and a decent piston, I don't think you really need go full hydro in you Cruiser . just ,y .002 cents ..

BTW what PS pump are you running right now .. ?

Not sure on the exact pump, all I know is that it's a stock style push-pull box. It was there when I bought the cruiser. I'll take a closer look at it when I get the chance.