So I bought some parts...

[hbomb9000]

I've been a observer of this forum for years and have learned a good bit. I have been waiting for almost 3 years to get things kicked off, but at long last I'll be dropping off my 2009 200 to a credible shop this weekend for the suspension installation. I'm pumped.

I finally bought myself a 2nd 200 that I can play with (my wife liked my first one and decided it was hers). I met with a local shop in Austin that focuses on LC's and we had a great discussion about my options for suspension (and my budget) and I've decided to move forward on the build in phases. The purpose of this post is to ask for opinions on the first phase of my build and receive constructive ideas on what I may be missing for phase 1 (suspension).

Here is my answer to the question of, "What will the vehicle be used for?"

------I want to be able to go just about anywhere on different terrains, be smart enough to avoid situations that 6k lb SUV's just shouldn't be in, but most importantly be able to make it home.-------

1st phase is suspension and tires.

The parts that I have purchased are the following...

++SPC Light Racing 200 Series Land Cruiser UCA's
++Ironman 4x4 200 Series Land Cruiser Performance Kit with Foam Cell Pro Shocks
++Dobinsons Rear Adjustable Panhard Rod Track Bar
++EBC Stage 3 Front / Rear kits

I haven't purchased the tires, but I am (99%) sold on BFG KM3's. I'm sandblasting and rattle canning the stock wheels (they are scratched to hell). I'm waiting for the suspension to be installed to get a better feel for what the biggest tire with no rub is for my factory 18's.

Phase 2 will be armor, lights, and bumpers.
Phase 3 will be roof rack, lights, and rear organizer.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

 

[hbomb9000]

It has been a while since I've updated this thread FWIW....

I had the UCA's, Ironman Kit, Panhard bar, brakes, and KM3's installed (275/70/18). I have been using the 200 with these mods for 4 months so far and while I am really happy with most aspects, a few have been a pain in the ass. Here are some things I learned...

• The front tires bumped into the UCA's very slightly in certain driving conditions. I went to Auto Zone and grabbed the smallest spacers they had and solved the issue.
• I get some understeer when I am accelerating hard. Still can't figure this out. Two experts have told me "the lift will just do that sometimes". I don't buy it.
• With no added weight (aka bumpers), this lift was closer to 3 inches instead of 2. Not upset about this at all . When I add the bumpers, I expect it to sit down a bit.
  
• The balancing of the KM3 tires has been the bane of my existence. To be clear, I don't blame the tires at this point. NTB installed them and balanced them. Terrible. I brought them back to be re-balanced. Better but still not good. At the behest of someone I trust (for the most part), I bought Tire Beads from Callie's Kustoms (6.5oz in each tire) and brought them to the Toyota dealer to install. They have been pretty great, but not perfect thus far. I'll give them a total of 5k miles for testing and then decide if I keep them. One thing I definitely didn't realize is how many opinions I would receive about the beads.
• This truck has been fantastic off the highway. I have property I can drive on and I've taken it to Hidden Falls a few times (once in the rain) and have been nothing but impressed. I don't have sliders, armor, or bumpers yet, so I haven't done anything too stupid. The tires were just awesome. I would definitely recommend them if you are in the market.
• Getting a new key laser cut by the dealer when you lose the original and realize your spare is actually a blank is expensive.
• Having a copy of Techstream can be invaluable when troubleshooting.

 

[KLF]

The balancing of the KM3 tires has been the bane of my existence.

Find a shop that you can trust, that has a Hunter Road Force balancer setup. Makes a HUGE difference.

 

[hbomb9000]

Find a shop that you can trust, that has a Hunter Road Force balancer setup. Makes a HUGE difference.

I'll have to ask around the Austin area to see who might have one. I wonder if any of the fine folks on this forum might know of a place in my area?

 

[mcgaskins]

• I get some understeer when I am accelerating hard. Still can't figure this out. Two experts have told me "the lift will just do that sometimes". I don't buy it.
• With no added weight (aka bumpers), this lift was closer to 3 inches instead of 2. Not upset about this at all . When I add the bumpers, I expect it to sit down a bit.

If I had to guess I'd say your under steer or what is commonly referred to as torque steer is related to how high your front lift is, especially relative to the back. Since the 100 series, all LCs I've seen in the US come with a slight rake where the rear is about a half inch higher than the front, and whenever this balance changes it results in undesirable handling characteristics like torque steer under acceleration. I don't know if you can lower the front, but it looks *really* high to me (even the UCA looks a little drooped sitting there). If your front end is not adjustable to give you less lift, your second suggestion of adding some weight up front will help bring it down a bit. Good excuse for a front bumper and winch right?

 

[linuxgod]

• The front tires bumped into the UCA's very slightly in certain driving conditions. I went to Auto Zone and grabbed the smallest spacers they had and solved the issue.
• I get some understeer when I am accelerating hard. Still can't figure this out. Two experts have told me "the lift will just do that sometimes". I don't buy it.
• The balancing of the KM3 tires has been the bane of my existence. To be clear, I don't blame the tires at this point. NTB installed them and balanced them. Terrible. I brought them back to be re-balanced. Better but still not good. At the behest of someone I trust (for the most part), I bought Tire Beads from Callie's Kustoms (6.5oz in each tire) and brought them to the Toyota dealer to install. They have been pretty great, but not perfect thus far. I'll give them a total of 5k miles for testing and then decide if I keep them. One thing I definitely didn't realize is how many opinions I would receive about the beads.

What offset are the wheels? You shouldn't hit the UCA if they are +50 or lower.

Do you get understeer or do you get torque steer?

• Understeer means you are turning and the truck wants to take a wider path than you want. If that's the case, look at your tire pressures first and then at the firmness of your suspension second. Understeer means your front tires/suspension are too soft or the rears are too hard.
• Torque steer means the truck pulls to one side when accelerating. Lifted trucks will do that a bit. A panhard rod to recenter your rear diff should help a little. If you have a left-to-right lean that makes it worse so try to correct that. Also wheels which are not the proper offset can cause this if your scrub radius is off. Not all lifted trucks will pull, but yes they can pull a bit especially under hard acceleration due to changes in your suspension geometry.

As far as balancing goes, are your wheels hubcentric or "lugcentric". If they are the latter, make sure you hand tightened the lugs nuts in a star pattern several times before applying a torque wrench as the self-centering acorn-style lugs won't perfectly center if you just torque them all the way down. Every shop that rotates my tires screws this up as they just hit the lugs with the air wrench and even a fraction of a mm off in the center can cause vibration problems. Failing that if your wheels are lugcentric get some spacer rings made.

 

[hbomb9000]

It is adjustable in the front. I thought it was a little high when I left the shop. The tech asked me to drive it for a few miles to let it settle. I think I will drop it a bit. Thanks for feedback.

If I had to guess I'd say your under steer or what is commonly referred to as torque steer is related to how high your front lift is, especially relative to the back. Since the 100 series, all LCs I've seen in the US come with a slight rake where the rear is about a half inch higher than the front, and whenever this balance changes it results in undesirable handling characteristics like torque steer under acceleration. I don't know if you can lower the front, but it looks *really* high to me (even the UCA looks a little drooped sitting there). If your front end is not adjustable to give you less lift, your second suggestion of adding some weight up front will help bring it down a bit. Good excuse for a front bumper and winch right?

 

[mcgaskins]

It is adjustable in the front. I thought it was a little high when I left the shop. The tech asked me to drive it for a few miles to let it settle. I think I will drop it a bit. Thanks for feedback.

That's good news. I'd suggest taking measurements like in this post below, then going back to the tech and have them lower the front to be a little lower than the back. You're probably not getting much uptravel in the current condition which could ride harsh especially in higher speed off road stuff.

Builds - mcgaskins' 2016 build thread - Ruby

 

[hbomb9000]

What offset are the wheels? You shouldn't hit the UCA if they are +50 or lower.

Do you get understeer or do you get torque steer?

• Understeer means you are turning and the truck wants to take a wider path than you want. If that's the case, look at your tire pressures first and then at the firmness of your suspension second. Understeer means your front tires/suspension are too soft or the rears are too hard.
• Torque steer means the truck pulls to one side when accelerating. Lifted trucks will do that a bit. A panhard rod to recenter your rear diff should help a little. If you have a left-to-right lean that makes it worse so try to correct that. Also wheels which are not the proper offset can cause this if your scrub radius is off. Not all lifted trucks will pull, but yes they can pull a bit especially under hard acceleration due to changes in your suspension geometry.

As far as balancing goes, are your wheels hubcentric or "lugcentric". If they are the latter, make sure you hand tightened the lugs nuts in a star pattern several times before applying a torque wrench as the self-centering acorn-style lugs won't perfectly center if you just torque them all the way down. Every shop that rotates my tires screws this up as they just hit the lugs with the air wrench and even a fraction of a mm off in the center can cause vibration problems. Failing that if your wheels are lugcentric get some spacer rings made.

What offset are the wheels? You shouldn't hit the UCA if they are +50 or lower.

Do you get understeer or do you get torque steer?

• Understeer means you are turning and the truck wants to take a wider path than you want. If that's the case, look at your tire pressures first and then at the firmness of your suspension second. Understeer means your front tires/suspension are too soft or the rears are too hard.
• Torque steer means the truck pulls to one side when accelerating. Lifted trucks will do that a bit. A panhard rod to recenter your rear diff should help a little. If you have a left-to-right lean that makes it worse so try to correct that. Also wheels which are not the proper offset can cause this if your scrub radius is off. Not all lifted trucks will pull, but yes they can pull a bit especially under hard acceleration due to changes in your suspension geometry.

As far as balancing goes, are your wheels hubcentric or "lugcentric". If they are the latter, make sure you hand tightened the lugs nuts in a star pattern several times before applying a torque wrench as the self-centering acorn-style lugs won't perfectly center if you just torque them all the way down. Every shop that rotates my tires screws this up as they just hit the lugs with the air wrench and even a fraction of a mm off in the center can cause vibration problems. Failing that if your wheels are lugcentric get some spacer rings made.

You are spot on, it is torque steer. Freudian slip on my part.

The wheels are the stock 18" wheels that came with 200. I don't recall the offset from memory. The UCA's aren't stock either. I plasti-dipped the wheels and the three balancing attempts have made that part look pretty rough.

I have an adjustable panhard installed in the back. Sounds like it may need some adjustment.

I really like the shop I used as they have been pretty cool about working with me, but it feels like maybe they didn't spend enough time to get it right.

Thanks a bunch for this response. I'm learning.

 

[hbomb9000]

That's good news. I'd suggest taking measurements like in this post below, then going back to the tech and have them lower the front to be a little lower than the back. You're probably not getting much uptravel in the current condition which could ride harsh especially in higher speed off road stuff.

Builds - mcgaskins' 2016 build thread - Ruby

Good points and thanks for the link. I have some homework to do. I know the front end feels like it wants to jump off of the pavement sometimes (it actually has since the lift).

 

[linuxgod]

Sorry I didn't notice you had the stock wheels still. For some reason I read you build as having aftermarket wheels. If they vibrate on stock wheels, I'd try without the spacers just to be sure, and then take them to some place that does road force balancing if they still cause vibration. It is possible you have a tire which is out of round/isn't true, but that should normally show up on the balancer.

FWIW I don't have a rear panhard and my lift is fairly mild but I do still get a small amount of torque steer when I lay into the gas. It's probably possible to completely get rid of it but in my case it's subtle so I just live with it. I suspect mine is more due to the lower wheel offset, though with taller-than-stock tires your should be around +40 offset so if you have the factory +60 wheels it could have a small impact on your handling as well.

 

[JtFSU]

On the balancing. A quick thing to check is if any wheels have weights in more than one location. This is known as counterbalancing and is a sure sign of a newbie, or lazy tech- I know because I had my ass deemed when I was working in a tire shop at 16!

Other good suggestions up above re: lugs started and torqued properly, or out of round tire. Manufacturing techniques and QC have come so far that a tire blemish is very rare, but still possible.

Any input on why you went with the system you did over the more common OME, Tough Dog, etc? Apologies if they are more common than I realize
Good looking truck so far!

 

[hbomb9000]

Any input on why you went with the system you did over the more common OME, Tough Dog, etc? Apologies if they are more common than I realize

@JtFSU It was a decision that I researched for a while. I'm far from an expert, but I got turned on to the Pro Foam Cell shocks by one of the Techs at the shop I use. It seemed like Ironman had a valid approach to use the foam and more oil volume to keep it cool. I'm not on corrugated roads often, but it does happen and I think the idea is to keep that shock (oil) cooler to resist fade. I have heard that Ironman is more of a budget brand in Australia, but so far so good.

My local Toyota Dealer (San Marcos Toyota) has agreed to road force balance tires whenever I am ready to pull the tire beads out. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[hbomb9000]

Sorry I didn't notice you had the stock wheels still. For some reason I read you build as having aftermarket wheels. If they vibrate on stock wheels, I'd try without the spacers just to be sure, and then take them to some place that does road force balancing if they still cause vibration. It is possible you have a tire which is out of round/isn't true, but that should normally show up on the balancer.

FWIW I don't have a rear panhard and my lift is fairly mild but I do still get a small amount of torque steer when I lay into the gas. It's probably possible to completely get rid of it but in my case it's subtle so I just live with it. I suspect mine is more due to the lower wheel offset, though with taller-than-stock tires your should be around +40 offset so if you have the factory +60 wheels it could have a small impact on your handling as well.

@linuxgod Thanks for the response. I did find out that San Marcos Toyota has a road force balancer. I'm definitely going to have them do that soon.