Smoke / Fire

[cruiserdan]

I spoke with Kit on the phone this afternoon and this is the first I have seen the damage. It is much worse than he let on in his understated conversation with me.

Two very important lessons to be learned here:

1) A functioning fire extinguisher, that you know how to use, in a place you can get at quickly, is a wonderful thing to have.

2) If you run a battery or batteries that are not stock sized and configured, be extra mindful of how they fit and how well they are secured.


D-

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

A dead short fire is a difficult to control....Halon extinguishers smother a fire by shutting out the oxygen, and work well if the fire is in a confined area. If there is a breeze, you are f'd, the halon will be blown away, and the fire will flare up again. Halon does not go a long way, if you carry a halon extinguisher make sure its a BMF. IMO there are better choices. One of the best things you can do/have is a battery disconnect or carry cable cutters.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Glad it turned out well! Sorry about the aftermath and time this is gonna take and I'm hoping you're not going to find a lot of other stuff later. I helped put out an electrical fire in Moab on the trail, and it was minor compared to yours, but later he found TONS of damaged componentry.

What about a more basic preventative strategy, like covering up the positive terminal with a red insulating cap as comes on LandCruisers stock? Anyone who swings a wrench underhood much knows its only a matter of time before a wrench hits the positive terminal, or a dropped screwdriver, etc. Keeping it covered like Toyota intended is wise IMHO.

DougM

 

[Junk]

bkgiii,

First and most importantly, glad you are ok and no one was hurt. While this truly sucks, and I don't mean to belittle it, it greatly pales to what could have happened. While we all give each other crap, our cruiser community doesn't like to see anyone get hurt. As folks have mentioned, your quick clear thinking while being prepared saved a disaster from occurring.

Now let's look at what happened (and you may not want to read this right now).

As Cdan mentions, any time someone changes out batteries, especially to a different size or configuration, a solid analysis needs to take place. What if this were to happen, what if that were to happen. In this case, going to Optimas means there is a lot of extra room in the box and the batteries need extra assurance they will not move around and that everything is tight. Also, there have been many posts about not using the side terminals on these batteries. Granted none of those that I've seen have mentioned the possibility of this happening, but it looks like if the top terminals were used that this MAY not have happened (then again, it could have and just been at a different time).

Just be gratefull that you are around to clean it up. I had a close call on 12/20/85 in my Lancia Beta. Just picked up the car from getting a new clutch cable installed and while the guy did that he made some minor electrical adjustments. Later that Friday, heading east on Route 80 at around 4pm doing about 90 mph in the fast lane, the car burst into flames. By the time I had it pulled over on the shoulder the headliner was on fire and falling on me. I grabbed my skis (most important posession at the time) and got out. This was Friday before Christmas just as rush hour was starting. Route 80 E was closed for about 2 hours and RT 80W was closed for about an hour. Nothing left of the car at all. Fire Dept. told me I was lucky I had just filled it with gas a few miles back otherwise if they were all fumes it would have exploded versus burning.

Fires suck. Let's hope this is the closest you ever come to being involved in anything major.

 

[Beowulf]

>> What about a more basic preventative strategy, like covering up the positive <<
>> terminal with a red insulating cap as comes on LandCruisers stock? <<

You can see in the picture that he has the stock red insulating cap on the top terminal. I don't know if they make something for the side terminals but if they do, we all need to get one if we are using the side terminals. To be honest, I would have rigged mine the same way before I saw these pictures.

Turbo's suggestion on rubberizing the battery hold-down is a good one but I think there would be a danger in the event of a front end collision. The cross-member could get bent against the exposed battery terminals and cause a fire.

-B-

 

[Rich]

Terminal insulaters are available. Both the postive and negative terminals should be covered, both stock and auxillary batteries. Bluesea has a good selection of inslators, some of which look like they would work fine on the side terminals. http://www.bluesea.com/dept.asp?d_id=7462&l1=7462 West Marine carries them in stock.

 

[AZcruiser]

Bkgii, glad your ok and damage was relatively minor.

I had a similar issue(minor compared to your day) with the battery in my previous 98 Cherokee, coming home from a camping trip on a unpaved road we notice sparks flying from the hood. It was dark and had a almost dead flashlight at the time. To make a long story short a service tech from the "5 star" dealer left a oil filter wrench across the battery, it finally shifted and made contact and burned a hole through the inner body cladding near the battery compartment.
Luckily no fire, I was treated very, very well from this "5 star" dealer after this incident.

 

[IdahoDoug]

On boats, where it's a MUCH bigger deal if you have a fire, the terminals are required to be completely covered. So the marine supply houses are a good idea.

DougM

 

[lurker]

FWIW, this post scared the poop out of me.

I went out today to buy a fire extinguisher and was expecting to pay about $100, but I really didn't know what to buy.

Found this on the internet http://www.hanford.gov/fire/safety/extingrs.htm

And decided to buy a B/C unit, I thought that Autozone would be a good place to start so I picked up a 2.5 lb KIDDE 466142 ABC Type Fire Extinguisher with a mount for $13.99.

I might not be the best, but for $13 it's probably better than nothing?

This post was calorie free.

 

[bkgiii]

Well, after a half day of cleanup, the culprit seems to be the battery box, at least primarily.
The hole in the side of the battery box, PS, where the J-hook fastens, had indeed become enlarged. That , combined with the smaller dimension of the Optima as was pointed out, seems to have caused the shifting of the battery backwards, allowing the retainer bar to slide down and make contact with the (+) terminal.

No paint damage, thankfully. ALso, as I was pulling wire out, I found that the convoluted tubing got most of the damage, not the wires themselves. I was tempted to leave them, but better to replace everything for peace of mind. ALso found that the Slee harness was NOT damaged, thankfully, but will be getting the newer (shorter) one anyway. If anyone needs the older, longer one, let me know...I'll ship it out.

Note the comments of Junk and Dan. Even using the battery spacer, shifting occurred. I'm going back with the same Optima (dual posts), despite the side post observations, simply because it makes for a cleaner attachment point for auxiliary stuff (lighting, primarily). I AM, however, considering the mil-spec terminals that some of y'all are using, since they seem to provide the needed room for ring terminals I need.

I did find terminal caps for side posts at the Marine SUpply store (that Rich mentioned) when I was there to replace the Kidde (B-C) extinguisher....a wise $5 investment.

SO...Words to the wise:
(1) Get a fire extinguisher. If you have one already, check the charge.
(2) Inspect the attachment point on your battery box.
(3) If you're gonna' use a non-standard battery, don't just assume that the bracket's holding it securely. Even mall-curuiser abuse might make it shift.

 

[CDN_Cruiser]

BKG:

I'm glad you (andf the truck are ok). Nice job on quickly dealing with the problem and having the equipment ready to go. I too have a smaller battery and, when I was out doing some work today, put a 10mm on the bolts to check the mounting. I don't have terminal covers on my battery and plan to look into this as well given your experience.

Lurker - a 2.5# unit is at least a start, but if the fire gets to any size at all, you'll find that the 2.5 will not take care of the job. If you can fit it safely, consider getting something in the 10# range.

Cheers, Hugh

 

[PDoyle]

How many want to buy fire extinguishers?

When I had a BMW I bought one with an adapter that fit real tight under your legs on the driver seat. A great place if you need to get to it quickly.

 

[YngTLCOwner]

PDoyle,
What type of fire extinguisher are you speaking of? After reading this post I am going to be getting one right after this pay period. Maybe if we get enough people we can get some kind of group buy rate.

 

[PDoyle]

Not sure. Rechargable though. Does anyone have any ideas ?

 

[stayalert]

A few options regarding fire extinguishers:

introduce yourself to the person/people in charge of fire safety where you work. The vendor that supplies/manages fire extinguishers might be a resource.

introduce your self to your local fire department, see what they have to say.


Personally I'd go with ABC. the powder (monoammonium phosphate?) might make a mess but so does fire....

 

[YngTLCOwner]

Stayalert,
I love that Avatar! Thanks for the suggestion. After reading this posting I really want to make sure to have one in the rig. I make sure to have as much emergency equipment in the rig at all times and yet this is one item I've put off for too long. I will post any info I get after speaking w/ a couple fire fighters here in my area.

Any specific things you guys would recommend me asking when I speak w/ these guys?

Steve

 

[Rookie2]

Any logic to wrapping the top cross bar in eletrical tap?

Thanks,
Rookie2

 

[PDoyle]

YngTLCOwner, let us know what you find out.

 

[hoser]

In my other vehicle, I have an extinguisher mounted in front of the passenger seat (pictured). It is out of the way and allows the seat to go all the way forward if needed. I haven't looked at the cruiser to see if such a bracket could be made though.

I have this Halon extinguisher.
http://www.h3r.com/products/a1600.htm

 

[RavenTai]

Hoser, a similar but even simpler bracket would work in the 80, since reading this thread I have been thinking about movign my puny fire extinguisher up to the foot well from in the back (loose resting in the 3rd row seat bars) and possibly getting a larger one, the one I have is 1lb :whoops: