Shop 'Build' for 2014

[Glenn-BJ74]

I have bought a house in Kelowna on a 0.4 acre lot and the building code will allow a two bay 1,000 sq. ft. shop. Although construction won't start until the spring I am excited as this has been a long-term dream to get out of the city to allow me to do this.
I know there a few handy guys out there and so I welcome suggestions to help me with the ‘build’. Here are some early ideas:

• Scissor truss design to maximize the center bay floor to ceiling height.

• Windows: Not many and high off the floor to maximize wall storage space.

• Electrical: 60 amp with 220v.? Not much left on the house panel.

• Lighting: Florescent or mercury vapor or what?

• Heating: I thought about in-floor radiant, but in I will need AC - a small gas furnace allows an AC unit to go sometime in the future.

• Air compressor – what size – I thought 10 cfm at 90 psi?

• Air lines plumbed in the walls – air outlets every 12’ ?

• #1 Center garage door 12’ high by 8’ wide (if possible)?

• #2 Garage door 8’ high by 8’ ?

Thanks ....

 

[Enigma]

When Andrew (ElectricDyck) wired my garage, since the electrical feed was already right there, he put in a new 100 amp/220v panel that fed the existing 60a panel in the house. Could be worth looking into.

 

[Antarctican]

Glenn, I think a lot of us here are jealous. Do you have an extra bedroom?
One can never have enough electrical outlets, at least 60A with 220V, plus as many 110 outlets as you can reasonably manage. If I were to do my garage from scratch, I'd have a dozen outlets along my workbench, on as many circuits as possible, plus ones every 6' along the walls. Same with air, and the largest freestanding unit you can get. Fluorescent is very efficient these days, cheap to run and bright but some ppl don't like them. You might consider making as much use of space as possible, so think about where you might want to store large bulky things like second set of tires, often one of those cable lift shelves can store stuff up near ceiling. Beer bottle opener on wall. Minimal windows, steel-clad solid door to help prevent easy break-ins. A spot on the wall for pinup girls.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

One warning on the flourecent lights is they do not like cold. I know your shop is going to be heated but if you ever do not have it on and its around 0c they will struggle to kick off. That's one issue I deal with every year in our unheated shop.

Lots of electrical outlets is good I would have 220 in at least 4 places for things like a welder, air compressor, hoist. We have two in ours and its a constant juggle with plugs when we are doing large projects. If you are going to be doing any metal work have an area designated for it. Metal top bench, welding curtains, 220 and 110 plus in this area as well as good ventilation.

I would definantly look at in floor radiant heating, in the winter even if the air is heated your feet will freeze standing and working on the cold concrete. Another benefit is working on the floor if there is no hoist as well as pulling in wet cars/trucks radiant heat will dry the floor very fast so no puddles to deal with. Get a built in wall AC unit to deal with the cooling in summer.

I cant wait till I am hopefully in a position some day to build a shop. My parents are selling there place soon and along with it my shop space. I get to put all the tools and host in storage till i get a place with a shop.

 

[Betarocker]

IMHO 1000sqft isn't quite enough for a 3 bay garage. 30' depth would be my minimum. That leaves 33' for width. I also wouldn't consider anything less than 10' wide by 10' tall doors. My configuration would be one 10' wide and one 16'wide roll-up, with a 3' man-door between. The last stand alone garage I built for a customer has a 15' cantilevered overhang. Engineering would dictate the structural elements, but that one needed 8.5"x37" glulam ridge and 8.5"x21" purlins, with 2x12 rafters. Clear span and vaulted to maximize the area.

Electrical can always be upgraded. 60A isn't enough for a shop. If you're going as far as you are, pull another service dedicated to the shop. Current draw from a compressor and a welder can be large.

Plumbing, with at least a wash tub, would be ideal. Even a small bathroom with a shower to keep the mess out of the house.

 

[canucksafari]

Whatever you do make room and allowances for a hoist. My dream is to one day get off my back. I'd even take an shop without AC or gas heat in exchange for a hoist.

 

[Fantom]

Hi Glenn, congratulations! Hope the move goes well.
Couple things to look at when doing a shop from scratch. Look into steel buildings, those truss units with metal siding, in comparison to building a new, wooden structure, these are less expensive. I know the company Future Steel Buildings (Canadian) is always having sales on odd sized buildings.
The other part of this is that it may not be considered a permanent structure (worth looking into) and if that is the case you won't have size limitations to the same degree. You can still pour a concrete pad to whatever size you want under it
You can insulate the wall and easily run all your wires and hoses.
Radiant floor heating is awesome but it's more money up front, and makes it hard in a shop to secure and move machines or hoists around if you change the layout as time goes on.
A good wood burning stove with a gas backup unit will keep you toasty enough.
As for power, you can never have enough. 220V is minimum, I'd look at a 150A panel or bigger, below that is nice for houses but shops need more, get a new line off the pole to the garage. As soon as you have an air compressor, a good size welder and a someone is helping and using a grinder, you'll be happy to have to power.
Plan the concrete to handle a hoist, make sure to have a water supply in there as well. Sucks to try to run to the house with crap in your eyes. A sink is pretty much a must.
You can buy fluorescent lighting (need both the bulb and ballast) rated for outdoors, it's good to below freezing temps.
Paint the walls and ceilings white, it helps a lot.
I'm sure there are other ideas but those are my main suggestions. Can't wait to see this!
So does that mean Dan has a new Cruiser collector to watch out for?

 

[AJAEbj42]

Congrats Glenn! Jealous for sure!

Let us know when the roof raising is happening; sure some of us could use another excuse to get out of the big smoke for a while.

 

[Dieseler]

I have a a Bridgeport mill , a metal lathe ,large air compressor , 220 amp welders , and only run a 60 amp panel with lots of seperate breakers for each plug outlet and never had an issue with lack of power or popping breakers.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

I am still in City of Kelowna (not ALR - can't build a barn), subject to zoning restrictions on buiding size and setbacks, but I will build the biggest shop I can afford in the space I have. It will need to be in 'keeping' with the neighbourhood so a commecial steel building is out. Heating, cooling and lighting are important issues - as I have worked in dimmly lit cold damp garages all my life and just can't handle it anymore.
I am allow a two piece bathroom (I will need to put in a pump-up system as I am on septic), with a a big SS sink. No shower allowed.

I guess I should get two of the biggest garage doors I can get is the way to go - the center bay should be able to take a hoist - with carefull design to comply with the bylaws - 14.5" mid-point height -peak to eaves. With this restriction the center bay may be the one with the most floor to celing clearance.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

IMHO 1000sqft isn't quite enough for a 3 bay garage. 30' depth would be my minimum. That leaves 33' for width. I also wouldn't consider anything less than 10' wide by 10' tall doors. My configuration would be one 10' wide and one 16'wide roll-up, with a 3' man-door between. The last stand alone garage I built for a customer has a 15' cantilevered overhang. Engineering would dictate the structural elements, but that one needed 8.5"x37" glulam ridge and 8.5"x21" purlins, with 2x12 rafters. Clear span and vaulted to maximize the area.

Electrical can always be upgraded. 60A isn't enough for a shop. If you're going as far as you are, pull another service dedicated to the shop. Current draw from a compressor and a welder can be large.

Plumbing, with at least a wash tub, would be ideal. Even a small bathroom with a shower to keep the mess out of the house.

Could you elaborate on the roof strutural elements you speak of please? - I have a 14.5 foot height restriction as noted above.

 

[Betarocker]

The 14.5' is the average height of the roof. Check the bylaw for max height too. Example, If the eave height is 8', and the ridge height is 21', the average will be 14.5'.

The garage I designed and built for a customer (not my own) has a 50' long glulam ridge beam. It spans 30' over the inside of the garage, and with the 2:1 cantilever ratio, has a front overhang of 15'. Rear overhang is 5', but that could have been extended equally had it not been for setbacks to property line. Eave overhangs were also 5'. Once designed, and engineer will need to determine the structural elements and connections and size accordingly for snow load and uplift. Rafters were spec'd as 2x12 @16"OC. It needed a steel I-beam header over the overhead doors since the ridge pole was centered over it. If you have a door either side of centerline, you could post to foundation, and use a paralam header. I find wood much easier to work with so I use it where possible.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

So with a 5/12 roof pitch on a 34' wide building- the roof peak would be 18' and eaves 11' (18'+11' = 29"/2-14.5') to comply with 14.5' midpoint city regulation – no maximum height restriction I can see, but I will phone Tuesday.

So if I want 13' floor to ceiling height (vehicle 7' + 6' hoist height) in the center bay - there would be 5' below the roof peak and inside clearance - is that enough for the roof truss member structures?

 

[wussyPup]

Hi Glenn - lots of good ideas already shared.

When my parents farmed near Oliver, the out buildings with large roof overhangs were much cooler in the summer; less direct sun on the walls. They also provide for extra covered storage space. Also, consider moving your compressor into a well vented lean-to outside your main shop - you don't need to listen to it all day.

Huge gable vents (possibly with fans later) can spill a lot of hot air and you can block them off in winter to keep heat in.

We have in-floor heat and I'm a huge fan. Efficient gas boilers are direct vent and the new pumps are incredibly efficient. Make and keep an accurate map of your water line layout.

Others have already mentioned your 60 amp sub-panel. How many amps will you draw when your compressor kicks in while the AC is on full and you've got your welder cranked? I'm looking to pull new wire to my garage for 220V service and I've decided I only want to do it once so will spend the extra $ on wire now for 100 amps.

Also, don't forget to pull some phone line and CAT5 to extend your LAN from the house. Also, consider if you have any requirements for inter-com with house.

 

[slowandsteady BJ]

Look into steel buildings, those truss units with metal siding, in comparison to building a new, wooden structure, these are less expensive. I know the company Future Steel Buildings (Canadian) is always having sales on odd sized buildings.
The other part of this is that it may not be considered a permanent structure (worth looking into) and if that is the case you won't have size limitations to the same degree. You can still pour a concrete pad to whatever size you want under it
You can insulate the wall and easily run all your wires and hoses.
Radiant floor heating is awesome but it's more money up front, and makes it hard in a shop to secure and move machines or hoists around if you change the layout as time goes on.

Ive assembled one of those Future steel buildings. over 4000 bolts and nuts. It was a steep learning curve indeed. Sore finger tips for a week! Personally I find them "less than easy on the eyes". lol.

Good luck with the relocation Glenn.

 

[Fantom]

There are other companies that make them and have nicer finishes...and haven't you heard of air tools?
Just saying there are several options out there.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

I think he already stated he did not want a steel structure. Issue with them is insulating for summer and winter, limited layout options, they look god awful. If he is within city limits like he said there is no way they would let one of those up in a residential area.

 

[Fantom]

Yes, I can read and some very much do, but considering they are usually a fair bit cheaper than traditional construction

and some look no different than a traditional garage with siding

Can be insulated the same way as traditional construction and usually have higher ceilings due to the trusses they use, all I am saying is that there are many options out there.
I don't know what Glenn's budget is but the last time my friend got an appraisal for a work shop, new construction, start to finish, 20'X30' it was around $50,000 (from 3 different places). This is usually a less expensive option. You also don't need to get approval for drawings usually because these are already engineered.
I'm not getting a cut from the sale, just giving a friend some options

And yes they have negatives, they can be loud when it rains if the roofs are not insulated, or have condensation inside, and there are ways around that.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

Something that fits in here with 1.5 m setbacks and 6 m setback from the street property line 1 m behind the wooden gate (on the street side). I have a side street for access - subject to approval, which I got informally.

Maybe 30' by 30' version of a shop nearby - last picture.

 

[Fantom]

Nice yard!



lots of cruiser parking there