Power System Setup

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

K

KNR

Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
48
Location
SF Bay Area
I'm starting the process of designing a vehicle power system and wanted to get some input from the group on a few items. I'll start with a base overview and get into specifics from there. I would like to do a one and done for the the main setup so I have a lot to consider but will scale as time goes on. The main thing I'm shooting for is safety, scalability, and as stock appearance as possible. This is an end game list as it will take me multiple phases for all the accessory items and won't be doing all the items on the list, but want to prepare if it happens.

Goals -
- 100% separation of aftermarket and native vehicle system. (A couple items seem to have to be connected to the main vehicle battery?
- Proper battery type for each application
- Identify what system activates each application (always on, ACC, or vehicle running)
- "hide" but make easily accessible all switches

Batteries - 2 AGM batteries under the hood. One for stock and one to power high amp devices, 1 lithium in the cabin for the remainder of the items.

I think the first part I want to identify is the under hood AGM battery locations. For ease of install, minimal adjustments to engine compartment items and maintain mostly stock I'm leaning toward R2M's setup with the 2 batteries in the one location. I would like to separate them for weight balance but the only solutions I have seen so far either rework the area on the opposite side of the radiator of the current battery, or putting it in the area by the air intake but that seems to require a Hewitt SAIS, and being in California I don't want to play the emissions game. Has anyone come up with any good locations for a second battery under the hood that balances the weight?

The second part is identifying which accessory goes to which battery. Here are my thoughts. Let me know if any of these should switch categories

Main Vehicle AGM Battery
Red Arc Brake Controller (would it be possible to move this to secondary AGM?)


Second AGM under hood
Winch
Air Compressor
Front Light Bar (would this be better ran off lithium house batter?)
Chase Lights (would this be better ran off lithium house batter?)
Ditch Lights (would this be better ran off lithium house batter?)
Rock Lights (would this be better ran off lithium house batter?)
Black Gate KDSS Disconnect
Power for front and rear E-locker
Power for LRA gas tank pump

Lithium House Battery
All added supplemental power for driver and passenger devices
inverter
Fridge
Rear cabin power for in camp use
Scene lighting
Water Pump
Comm's (GMRS MXT275, Ham Head Unit)

To summarize the questions for this first part. Input on the 2nd under hood battery location? Does the list look appropriate for which accessory goes to which battery. Any other accessories I'm missing? Again, most likely won't be doing all of these, but building the list for sizing everything.
 
I may have found a battery I’m going to try. This at a minimum will be for the stock vehicle system. It looks promising as it will help keep the weight down with the extra battery up front. My only concern is using it with a winch as the second battery. I have a question in with the mfg on usage for that so will see. But a CCA of 1000 on a lithium battery is the best I’ve seen. It’s smaller then the stock battery but larger the the odyssey PC1200 so hopefully I can still squeeze them in the stock location, but it may be an inch too wide. Worst case since it is a lithium I could put it in the cabin as well. Going this route would make it a good option to eliminate the third battery in the cabin, but 60AH is a little lite for house I feel. So although it is pricey it should just about even out at about the 10 year mark, as it has an 11 year warranty for defects which is pretty good. Will see how it performs long term as the batteries I’ve had last in the 5 year range.

dakotalithium.com

Dakota Lithium DL+ 12V 60Ah Dual Purpose, 1000 CCA LiFePO4 Battery

Twoin pack, 12V 60Ah multi propose 1000 CCA lithium starting dakota battery plus for marine engine, automotive, deep cycle use. 8x longer 11year lifetime.
dakotalithium.com dakotalithium.com
 
I'm using dual Odyssey PC1200's in the stock location. I had YotaMasters down here in So. Cal fabricate a dual battery rack for my rig.
With this set up, I still have just a little bit of room left if I were to go with a larger battery. Maybe .5" or so.
You can check it out here starting at post #3: Builds - R2M 2013 GX460 Overland Build - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/r2m-2013-gx460-overland-build.1104719/
And then again on page 4, post #53.
Where you mention a large battery for your winch, whenever I use anything form my aux battery, e.g. winch, air compressor, inverter, I ALWAYS have my engine running. I've never had an issue with these batteries as long as my engine was running. Although for my fridge, I do not run my engine, but after a day or so, I'll start my rig and let it run for a while to recharge the battery from running the fridge.
Just for reference, I'm referring to my "house" battery in all instances above, not the battery to start and run my vehicle.
 
r2m said:
I'm using dual Odyssey PC1200's in the stock location. I had YotaMasters down here in So. Cal fabricate a dual battery rack for my rig.
With this set up, I still have just a little bit of room left if I were to go with a larger battery. Maybe .5" or so.
You can check it out here starting at post #3: Builds - R2M 2013 GX460 Overland Build - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/r2m-2013-gx460-overland-build.1104719/
And then again on page 4, post #53.
Where you mention a large battery for your winch, whenever I use anything form my aux battery, e.g. winch, air compressor, inverter, I ALWAYS have my engine running. I've never had an issue with these batteries as long as my engine was running. Although for my fridge, I do not run my engine, but after a day or so, I'll start my rig and let it run for a while to recharge the battery from running the fridge.
Just for reference, I'm referring to my "house" battery in all instances above, not the battery to start and run my vehicle.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Ya your build is kinda what I'm using as a basis for that front end. It looked like a great solution. Just hoping these batteries work out as It would be about a 40 pound weight savings up there. What direction did you go for the AGM charging? The GM Diode? If so was it just a matter of swapping out the existing fuse with that one?
 
I actually had YotaMasters (Yotamasters - Quality parts and service - https://www.yotamasters.com/) do all the electrical except the inverter and aux power outlets inside my rig.
It's one of those things where either you don't have a lot of money and do much of the work yourself, or you're doing pretty well financially and pay to have most of the work done for you. Usually I'm doing most of the work myself, but for this GX, I was able to have YotaMasters do the work.
You should give them a call and ask, let them know you found them from one of their customers on MUD.

When the lithium batteries start coming down in price to maybe just a couple of hundred dollars each instead of almost a thousand, I'd really like to swap out those PC1200's for lithium and reduce some of the weight up there.
 
r2m said:
I actually had YotaMasters (Yotamasters - Quality parts and service - https://www.yotamasters.com/) do all the electrical except the inverter and aux power outlets inside my rig.
It's one of those things where either you don't have a lot of money and do much of the work yourself, or you're doing pretty well financially and pay to have most of the work done for you. Usually I'm doing most of the work myself, but for this GX, I was able to have YotaMasters do the work.
You should give them a call and ask, let them know you found them from one of their customers on MUD.

When the lithium batteries start coming down in price to maybe just a couple of hundred dollars each instead of almost a thousand, I'd really like to swap out those PC1200's for lithium and reduce some of the weight up there.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the recommendation. I need to decide if I'm going to do it or have someone. I'm more comfortable on the mechanical side then the electrical, so that may be the route I go. I'll keep them in mind. Agreed on the price of these batteries. Currently that Dakota high CCA lithium starter battery is $600 until mid September, but the life on it looks to be quite a bit longer then Lead Acid or AGM. It looks like 2000 cycles to 80% vs 400 for the Odyssey, so it would be a long game purchase. Figure we are still 2 years out from prices halving. Then if I upgrade in say 4 years, I would have still paid close to the same.

First things first, going to mock up if I can stuff those 2 in there! That kind of makes or breaks the concept of going Lithium or AGM.

For the interior, has anyone seen a bracket for the sunglass holder for a switch pro? I really want to put a set of switches up there that I can push closed.
 
I'm a total idiot when it comes to electrical but I'm in the same boat about needing to start planing a different setup.

Right now I've got a X2 Power Group 31 as my only battery but also have a Goal Zero 500X w/ 100w panel. I ran my Dometic wiring kit to the rear where my fridge is being powered and when I stop I just swap it over to my Goal Zero.

However, I'm thinking about upgrading to the Goal Zero 1000X and using their Link kit to integrate with my car. Just seems like the easier solution and my X2 should be more than enough for my GX. I've got a NOCO jump starter for emergencies.
 
orangerock said:
I'm a total idiot when it comes to electrical but I'm in the same boat about needing to start planing a different setup.

Right now I've got a X2 Power Group 31 as my only battery but also have a Goal Zero 500X w/ 100w panel. I ran my Dometic wiring kit to the rear where my fridge is being powered and when I stop I just swap it over to my Goal Zero.

However, I'm thinking about upgrading to the Goal Zero 1000X and using their Link kit to integrate with my car. Just seems like the easier solution and my X2 should be more than enough for my GX. I've got a NOCO jump starter for emergencies.
Click to expand...
I've been bouncing back and forth between running a larger main battery, with a solar/electric generator as well. A couple things I decided on. I really want to separate native vehicle with all aftermarket. I think it is by far the safest way to go, so this moves toward at least 2 batteries. We also sleep in the vehicle when traveling so building in the needed power has it's benefits vs moving things around. Especially with larger capacity generators. They get pretty large. Currently I have my winch hooked up to my vehicle battery, and use a Bibine generator to power my small alpicool style fridge. This works for up to about 4 days off grid and no fridge refill stops with driving everyday to charge the Bibene. We are working toward longer duration trips and longer times not driving so we are planning for that. We will also be adding a number of extra power outlets at locations throughout the vehicle so that is nice to have it wired in.
 
I took a different approach - everything has pros / cons, and I'll try to lay out what I did and the pros & cons.

My setup:

1. Start battery: AGM Odyssey Extreme. Can't remember which model, but it is 100ah capacity with ~850 cca, so fairly healthy battery. I run ALL of my accessories that would normally be run with engine running off that battery. Winch, ARB dual compressor, front cabin area USBs, etc.

2. House battery: 2 x 100ah LiFePO4 batteries located inside my storage drawers in the 3rd row delete location. These batteries are connected in a floating ground, completely isolated electrical circuit (i.e. they do not connect to chassis ground, but have an isolated ground / return bus). I run ALL of the accessories that I intend to run with engine off / car parked off this circuit. My SwitchPro is connected to this circuit, and powers rear cargo area USB outlets, 12V outlets (for fridge), lighting (have not added yet, but will run a front facing light bar off one circuit). The two batteries are connected in parallel to a 12V bus bar, from which I connect the SwitchPro (to power all the previously mentioned loads) and 2 large gauge Anderson connectors. I use these Anderson connectors to connect my inverter, connect to my camp trailer, or any other load I need to connect - ultimate flexibility.

I charge #2 using a dual input charger - Alternator input is connected to the start battery, and output charges the dual lithium batteries. The 2nd input is solar, which I can connect via an Anderson plug.

I did it this way primarily for these reasons:
- Plenty of house battery capacity to augment my camp trailer and/or power overnight accessories independently.
- Charge the house batteries automatically anytime I start the car.
- Have solar to charge house batteries.
- Completely protect start battery from over discharge.

The only downside to my setup is that if my start battery does die for some reason, I cannot start the car from the house batteries. I can, however, reverse the input / output of my charger and use the house batteries to charge the start battery.

Hope this is useful ... there are infinite ways to configure electrical. Key is to know what your use case(s) are.
 
giovanni said:
I took a different approach - everything has pros / cons, and I'll try to lay out what I did and the pros & cons.

My setup:

1. Start battery: AGM Odyssey Extreme. Can't remember which model, but it is 100ah capacity with ~850 cca, so fairly healthy battery. I run ALL of my accessories that would normally be run with engine running off that battery. Winch, ARB dual compressor, front cabin area USBs, etc.

2. House battery: 2 x 100ah LiFePO4 batteries located inside my storage drawers in the 3rd row delete location. These batteries are connected in a floating ground, completely isolated electrical circuit (i.e. they do not connect to chassis ground, but have an isolated ground / return bus). I run ALL of the accessories that I intend to run with engine off / car parked off this circuit. My SwitchPro is connected to this circuit, and powers rear cargo area USB outlets, 12V outlets (for fridge), lighting (have not added yet, but will run a front facing light bar off one circuit). The two batteries are connected in parallel to a 12V bus bar, from which I connect the SwitchPro (to power all the previously mentioned loads) and 2 large gauge Anderson connectors. I use these Anderson connectors to connect my inverter, connect to my camp trailer, or any other load I need to connect - ultimate flexibility.

I charge #2 using a dual input charger - Alternator input is connected to the start battery, and output charges the dual lithium batteries. The 2nd input is solar, which I can connect via an Anderson plug.

I did it this way primarily for these reasons:
- Plenty of house battery capacity to augment my camp trailer and/or power overnight accessories independently.
- Charge the house batteries automatically anytime I start the car.
- Have solar to charge house batteries.
- Completely protect start battery from over discharge.

The only downside to my setup is that if my start battery does die for some reason, I cannot start the car from the house batteries. I can, however, reverse the input / output of my charger and use the house batteries to charge the start battery.

Hope this is useful ... there are infinite ways to configure electrical. Key is to know what your use case(s) are.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Great explanation. I can definitely see some advantages here. I will be thinking on this one for sure.

For the trailer power, is all your power coming from the 2-100AH batteries? If you need to separate the truck and trailer, say run out for a trail run or need to park the trailer and truck in different areas of a site does that eliminate all power to the trailer, or does it have it's own battery too?
 
Trailer has 2 x 100aH LiFePO4 batteries and a dual input charge system also. This is generally what I do: at night I connect the vehicle house batteries to the 12V input of the trailer charger - runs the trailer off the vehicle house batteries. During the day, I connect trailer to solar and let solar maintain (or at least offset the trailer electrical load).

For the vehicle batteries, they charge when I drive trails, or I connect solar to them and recharge them also. I can basically last an infinite amount of time without running the vehicle as long as there is sun.
 
  • Like
Reactions: r2m
I bought Renogy batteries and the Renogy dual input charger for the GX. Camper has a Neutron 12 battery management system with Relion batteries.

I saw Dakota Lithium and Renogy now have 12V 170ah batteries that are small enough to fit. If I were starting from scratch today, I'd put 1x170 in the GX and 2x170 in the trailer.
 
KNR said:
I've been bouncing back and forth between running a larger main battery, with a solar/electric generator as well. A couple things I decided on. I really want to separate native vehicle with all aftermarket. I think it is by far the safest way to go, so this moves toward at least 2 batteries. We also sleep in the vehicle when traveling so building in the needed power has it's benefits vs moving things around. Especially with larger capacity generators. They get pretty large. Currently I have my winch hooked up to my vehicle battery, and use a Bibine generator to power my small alpicool style fridge. This works for up to about 4 days off grid and no fridge refill stops with driving everyday to charge the Bibene. We are working toward longer duration trips and longer times not driving so we are planning for that. We will also be adding a number of extra power outlets at locations throughout the vehicle so that is nice to have it wired in.
Click to expand...
In trying to mount dual batteries in the factory location, if you want to try this for a while, this is what I did on my 100 sereis, go to post #34: Slee Dual Battery Tray - What batteries have you used? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/slee-dual-battery-tray-what-batteries-have-you-used.967959/page-2#post-11313034
I used a 2"x12" to support and lift the batteries so the factory hold-down strap would still hold. 2"x12" will not rust, corrode, melt or about anything else for a support! Then I used "plumbers tape", that steel strapping that has holes running the length and covered it in heat shrink tubing. I then used a turn buckle to draw both ends of the strap together. Super sturdy and keeps everything nice and tidy!
Yeah, I know, it is a little hill-billy, but I used the usual location for aux battery for my ARB dual compressor.
 
I built several different simulated batteries out of cardboard. I figured there was no go way to install two batteries that were equivalent to the factory battery anywhere under the hood that wouldn't displace factory parts. I decide to up size the battery in the factory location to a Group 24F and install a house battery in the Truckvault. The position of the second battery is dead center of the vehicle just aft of the front seats. Details can be found here.

Builds - 2018 Premium 460 build - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/2018-premium-460-build.1194757/page-10
 
giovanni said:
I bought Renogy batteries and the Renogy dual input charger for the GX. Camper has a Neutron 12 battery management system with Relion batteries.

I saw Dakota Lithium and Renogy now have 12V 170ah batteries that are small enough to fit. If I were starting from scratch today, I'd put 1x170 in the GX and 2x170 in the trailer.
Click to expand...

How are you liking the Renogy setup? I've watched some videos on setup and it seems very straightforward while being pretty inexpensive.
 
Thank you to everyone for the input! This gives me enough info to consider the base direction to get started. I'll update as I make decisions.
 
Washingtontaco said:
I built several different simulated batteries out of cardboard. I figured there was no go way to install two batteries that were equivalent to the factory battery anywhere under the hood that wouldn't displace factory parts. I decide to up size the battery in the factory location to a Group 24F and install a house battery in the Truckvault. The position of the second battery is dead center of the vehicle just aft of the front seats. Details can be found here.

Builds - 2018 Premium 460 build - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/2018-premium-460-build.1194757/page-10
Click to expand...
That is what I figured. I'm going to either go the R2M route with 2 smaller batteries up front and one lithium in the rear, or see how large of a single battery I can get there. I still really want to separate the main vehicle system from all accessories so that will most likely inform my decision. I know a 27F fits there with no issues. For the cabin battery I have a very specific size area I want to fit it so that part will be the interesting one.
 
KNR said:
Has anyone come up with any good locations for a second battery under the hood that balances the weight?
Click to expand...

I've spent hours looking for a location for a second battery without making any modification and the only place I could find was somewhere on top of the bumper beam. I would be a tight squeeze for even a small battery.

What is the purpose of the second AGM battery again? IMO it seems overkill to have 3 separate batteries. I understand wanting to have an 100% isolated system but it seems like a lot of work for very little to no benefit. Most of the accessories that you would run off the second underhood battery could either be run off the starting battery or house battery, depending on the usage. Anything major loads like a winch or compressor would be running only with the engine running so the alternator is doing most of the work.

I have my GX setup with a separate Lithium in the cargo area. My reasoning for doing that is most of the constant loads like fridge, inverter, air compressor, that run off the house battery are in the cargo area, so it was easier to run on set of heavy gauge wires for the battery rather than multiple wires for the accessories. I have all add on accessories running off a separate fuse/relay box near the brake booster, so the stock wiring stays untouched. The downside of this is you don't have the ability to self jumpstart easily, but with most of the load running off the lithium battery the chances of killing the start battery go way down. Plus I always have a lithium jumpstarter as a backup, between those two items it makes the need to self jumpstart almost non-existent.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Back
Top Bottom