Possible oil pump tick?

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Kernal said:
There's a few different methods you can use to remove the harmonic balancer/crank pulley 30mm bolt using the starter bump method.
Put a 3/4" drive breaker bar on the 30mm crank bolt, place the bar up under the frame rail and give the starter a quick bump (pull the wire from
the distributor to the coil first or pull the EFI fuse)

If the crank bolt doesn't come off you can use a crank holding tool (pushed up under the frame rails) and a long section of 2" pipe (cheater bar/extension)
slid over the breaker bar and pull with everything you've got. Important to use a 3/4" drive breaker bar, anything less will break.
Protect the fender in case the breaker bar slips (or breaks) if using this method.

Or rattle it off using an impact wrench if you have one with enough torque but then the radiator will most likely have to come out.

Some discussions in this thread:

Zane

Thread 'How to Replace Oil Pump seal w/ Pics'

I recently noticed that I had an oil leak coming from the front of my motor. After cleaning up the front of the motor to determine where the leak was coming from it was easy to see that it was coming from where the oil pump cover mated to the timing chain cover. I crawled under the truck once running and oil was coming out in a slow but steady stream from the area shown in the attached picture below.
leak areas04.webp

After reading several posts on what others have done when they have had a bad oil pump seal I was concerned that I would end up having to pull...
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Thank you for the information!
 
I decided to take @OTRAMM ‘s advice and use a holding tool and breaker bar and giver. Didn’t want to risk bending the flex plate and using the starter bump method has me scared to destroying my brand new radiator. But…
IMG_6379.webp

(Please ignore the welds, I’m learning) this was two hours after I welded that up and it was cold to the touch. Looks like I have no choice but to bump the starter.
 
Starter works too but know the flex plate is not going to bend. It is bolted to this very very beefy torque converter and the bolts are beefy too. I did the starter method the first time. I personally would only try that again if no other option worked.. including removing the radiator and buying a bigger impact.

The tool for holding the balancer still is universal for a lot of toyotas. I've used it on a bunch of. Different engines. I just don't use it for the 1fz because it's easier for me to put the deepwel socket on an extra long bolt head.
 
Niko Jackson said:
I decided to take @OTRAMM ‘s advice and use a holding tool and breaker bar and giver. Didn’t want to risk bending the flex plate and using the starter bump method has me scared to destroying my brand new radiator. But…
View attachment 4059875
(Please ignore the welds, I’m learning) this was two hours after I welded that up and it was cold to the touch. Looks like I have no choice but to bump the starter.
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Try a square section instead of angle iron... That will do the trick. I use 25mm / 1inch square section, works fine.
 
clx16 said:
Starter works too but know the flex plate is not going to bend. It is bolted to this very very beefy torque converter and the bolts are beefy too. I did the starter method the first time. I personally would only try that again if no other option worked.. including removing the radiator and buying a bigger impact.

The tool for holding the balancer still is universal for a lot of toyotas. I've used it on a bunch of. Different engines. I just don't use it for the 1fz because it's easier for me to put the deepwel socket on an extra long bolt head.
Click to expand...
The flexplate can most definitely bend. I have one hanging on my wall that another shop bent using a socket on the torque converter bolt to jam the crank. It was bent bad enough to trigger the knock sensors.
 
OTRAMM said:
The flexplate can most definitely bend. I have one hanging on my wall that another shop bent using a socket on the torque converter bolt to jam the crank. It was bent bad enough to trigger the knock sensors.
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Did they forget to take the socket off before trying to start it?
 
Fascinating thread that I will store away for the future - the one I look after has 240k. I have to say the level of OCD is strong with this crowd. From my more mortal perspective, this is all it took to hold the HB in place. I used a couple of 3/8's sockets as bushings between the flat steel and the bolt holes. I have zero welding skill and mostly hand tools but it worked well enough to pass along to my daughter.

It is funny but the failed HB convinced me to really pay attention to these pages and changed the scope of the work I had planned before handing the car off to my daughter in July '25. It took a fair amount of time and money, but now I am convinced it can go another 20 years. Fortunately, it has been garaged most of it's life.

IMG_1853.webp
 
clx16 said:
Did they forget to take the socket off before trying to start it?
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It looked more like it flexed the socket over and then got jammed as the engine rotated. Either way it's a gamble, and you'll still need a way to properly hold the crank to torque the bolt back.
 
OTRAMM said:
It looked more like it flexed the socket over and then got jammed as the engine rotated. Either way it's a gamble, and you'll still need a way to properly hold the crank to torque the bolt back.
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There was someone on here a few years back that used a 12 point chrome socket and it split out. I use a thick 6 point impact and I like to jam a piece of wood in to keep things square and not damage the Inspection port opening. I am always terrified I will forget the socket and try to start it.
 
Well I got the bolt off. My drive rotor and driven rotor had very little noticeable wear and about the same amount if not a little more play than @clx16. Put the new set in and there is the same amount of play. Before I installed I stuck my finger in to where I could get purchase on the drive gear behind the timing cover and there was no play or backlash in that. I tried to take a picture of it to see the condition of the splines but wasn’t very successful. After putting everything back together, on start up and for a few minutes it sounded perfect like a typewriter. Then the same noise came back. Ideas?
 
Niko Jackson said:
Well I got the bolt off. My drive rotor and driven rotor had very little noticeable wear and about the same amount if not a little more play than @clx16. Put the new set in and there is the same amount of play. Before I installed I stuck my finger in to where I could get purchase on the drive gear behind the timing cover and there was no play or backlash in that. I tried to take a picture of it to see the condition of the splines but wasn’t very successful. After putting everything back together, on start up and for a few minutes it sounded perfect like a typewriter. Then the same noise came back. Ideas?
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Video I tried to get of the drive gear.
 
Can you get your stethoscope on to the oil pump cover to see if it is still coming from that area?

here are the things I went through on mine:
replaced power steering pump and made sure there were not dents in the teeth of the gear
stuck a camera down the intake tubes to see the top of each intake valve looking for a nut or bolt that was rattling on top or something
stuck my camera down along the timing chain to look for guide issues or something bouncing around.
replaced the timing chain tensioner
used a feeler gauge to check the intake and exhaust valves and cams
replaced the harmonic balancer thinking maybe it was separating
i even put in new motor mounts and transmission mount (those were bad but didn't change the rattle noise).
When i had both oil pans off i checked the rod bearings for play and there were also no metal shavings in the pan.

I guess it is possible that your new impeller being back to factory spec is not making up for wear that is on the internal splines of the oil pump gear. also its possible the brass bearing it rides on is worn out. DId you have up and down or side to side play, or was it just rotational play?
 
clx16 said:
Can you get your stethoscope on to the oil pump cover to see if it is still coming from that area?

here are the things I went through on mine:
replaced power steering pump and made sure there were not dents in the teeth of the gear
stuck a camera down the intake tubes to see the top of each intake valve looking for a nut or bolt that was rattling on top or something
stuck my camera down along the timing chain to look for guide issues or something bouncing around.
replaced the timing chain tensioner
used a feeler gauge to check the intake and exhaust valves and cams
replaced the harmonic balancer thinking maybe it was separating
i even put in new motor mounts and transmission mount (those were bad but didn't change the rattle noise).
When i had both oil pans off i checked the rod bearings for play and there were also no metal shavings in the pan.

I guess it is possible that your new impeller being back to factory spec is not making up for wear that is on the internal splines of the oil pump gear. also its possible the brass bearing it rides on is worn out. DId you have up and down or side to side play, or was it just rotational play?
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I will definitely get the stethoscope back on it. I just had rotational play. Going back in the impeller was tight in there. I next move is probably taking out the chain tensioner and checking that then taking the valve cover off to see if one of the installation bolts was left on.
 
Did some more investigating with the stethoscope and I was able to pinpoint a few spots where the noise was most noticeable. I will drop a picture below with the circles being where I could hear it the best.
IMG_6408.webp

I started with putting the scope on the zinc plated cover for that sensor which I’m not sure what that does. But I really heard it there then took it off and went from there.
While I was under there with it running I also noticed what seemed like some oscillation in my harmonic balancer. Will drop a video. Thoughts?
Harmonic Balancer Video
 
I don't know what a failing hb sounds like and that is why I replaced mine trying to track down my noise. Maybe someone else has a video of one with good audio too.
 
clx16 said:
I don't know what a failing hb sounds like and that is why I replaced mine trying to track down my noise. Maybe someone else has a video of one with good audio too.
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Our was not given away by a "running noise." I suspect the first hint we had of the failure was idling at a stop light. The engine rpm dropped and the oil pressure dropped perilously close to zero. This "cycle" happened a few time and then went away. The mechanic thought it was the oil pressure sender and replaced it (not). But he confirmed the pressure was fine.

Sometime later my daughter took it on a 160 mile trip and reported nothing unusual. The morning after I started it and heard something odd and encountered this (it was the belt path that first caught my eye):

IMG_1849.webp
 
BTLSHP said:
Our was not given away by a "running noise." I suspect the first hint we had of the failure was idling at a stop light. The engine rpm dropped and the oil pressure dropped perilously close to zero. This "cycle" happened a few time and then went away. The mechanic thought it was the oil pressure sender and replaced it (not). But he confirmed the pressure was fine.

Sometime later my daughter took it on a 160 mile trip and reported nothing unusual. The morning after I started it and heard something odd and encountered this (it was the belt path that first caught my eye):

View attachment 4070821
Click to expand...
Oh wow. Was the bolt backing out?
 
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