Please Help.

[uzj100]

4x4 Trip - LC vs Yukon

This little competition between the LC and Yukon should do the trick in convincing him which vehicle is a real 4x4. The Yukon/CHevy/Suburban/Avalanche/H2 are ok to good American SUVs. They are made for the road. The interior materials are cheap/cheap/cheap. Even the new ones look like a 12 year old put them together. Also, what about all the wires/hoses hanging down low. These trucks were designed for the road. These guys always quote HP and I always quote torque and when it is available in the rpm range.

I live in NC and I fight the LC vs everything else battle everyday it seems like. A quote from a 4runner ower who had seen to much tv or had been listening to his friends to much, I hope I have a chevy z71 pickup one day, those are real tough trucks. He said this in comparison to my '95 LC and his '95 4Runner.

If you want to hurt his yukon, take him over something that will catch all those wires/hoses hanging low under the vehicle, then get ready to call a tow truck.

I guess the biggest question, What kind of tires do you have and what kind does your budides yukon have? This will make a huge difference on the trail.

Have fun and take pictures.

uzj100

ps - Rememebr the 100 series are not indestructable. I was out with a bunch of rovers, climbing a steep rutted hill and broke my front diff carrier (yes the very middle), luckily the part was still under warranty. I was using very little power but was lifting front and rear wheels. Also, my '99 does not have the rear diff lock option. Watch your wheelspin and lifting wheels. Use your rear diff lock if traction becomes a problem.

 

[cary]

Did they say anything about reliability as related to the Rover?

TJK

Of course not. Let's see here a british automobile, with a BMW motor known to have overheating problems, oil pumps backing out, and engines dying prematurely, all backed up by a ZF Automatic transmission with a life expectancy of 100,000 miles. Sounds like a recipe for success.

I have owned and drive German cars for 15 years, I have always loved the quality and feel of BMW's and Mercedes. My wife has always driven BMW's starting with a 69 1600 in high school. Unfortunately the quality of the newer BMW's and Mercedes has deteriated to the point that it is questionable if we will buy another. I still prefer the way german cars feel, but love the bullet proof reliable I have had with the Cruiser and my Pathfinder.

 

[dclee]

I don't know about BMW, but MB started the decline when they bought Chrysler. And we all know what a curse that company is...

Previous to that, they were all about solid German engineering. AFAIK they are the only company offering customers a free car if their current Benz hits 1,000,000 miles (or is it km?). Either way, that's not a typo, six zeroes, one million. And there have actually been several winners! But with competition from Asia and the U.S., they started incorporating all kinds of fancy gadgets and changed their engineering emphasis from solidity and reliability to flash and sizzle. You can still get that bank vault sound when shutting doors, but now you get interior trim squeaks, failing electronics, etc. And pushing the performance envelope as they are doing now, while a good thing in some respects, also pushes you closer to the failing point, on the bleeding edge of technology. I think that's one reason AMG has decided to not use kompressors (blowers) anymore. Also, they are trying to build too many models, and IMHO are stretching their design, engineering, and manufacturing resources too thin. Look at the CLS. A four door coupe? WTF? They've already got the S-class full-size sedan, E-class mid-size sedan, CLK coupe, C-class coupe and sedan, etc. etc.

I would not buy any MB after about 1997, except maybe a 2001 CLK55 AMG. That is a sweet car. The new R230 chassis SL is pretty, but maybe not quite up to the engineering excellence of its predecessors. Well, I guess I could be biased, since I own a previous model R129 chassis 500SL. We also have a 190E 2.3-16, which was MBs answer to the M3 in 1986. After 18 years, the original paint still looks new, the leather is crack-free, the mechanicals have never failed, and the car starts without a problem every time. And the door still feels like a bank vault door when I close it, even on the "Baby" Benz.

Only MB to my knowledge being built in Tuscaloosa is the ML POS. Not worth spitting at.

All of these reasons are also some of the same reasons I am such a Land Cruiser fan. Though I must admit, if it had had air conditioning, could hit 60 on the freeway, and could seat more than two, we might have been an all-Mercedes family with a 406 or 416 UNIMOG or two.

 

[80and100cruisers]

My dad and I are BMW lovers..but when his 7 series came off lease..he replaced it with a 100 cruiser. My mom has the X5, it can't even compare to the cruiser. She wants to sell it for a cruiser, but thats not economical or practical. I enjoy driving the X5 for about 20 minutes, it is faster and has that trick auto tranny, but after 20 minutes I def wanna be back in a cruiser.

As for cars, I haven't been in any of the new BMW models, so I can't really judge them. But I'd suspect they are the best pick for the driver who loves to drive hard, in their price ranges.

-Matt

 

[e9999]

there was a discussion of the "decline" of euro lux vehicles in Consumer Reports a month or 2 ago. Gist of it seems to have been that they were using too much "new" tech which decreased the reliability; and also perhaps quality control issues.
E

 

[Pitbull]

Derek, I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

[mobi-arc]

From Edmunds:

#3830 of 3831 Re: Yukon v. TLC [mobiweld #3827] by albiv Jul 01, 2004 (1:40 pm)
I traded in a 2002 Yukon for a 2003 TLC Landcruiser, so I have first hand knowledge. Anybody that makes a statement saying that the Yukon is better that a LC is either a troll or is a complete moron. While the Yukon is not a bad truck, if you can get past the piston slap and tranny whine and cheap interior and GM's crappy service and lack of accountability, it's not in the same state when comparing to a TLC. After 1 year with the Yukon it had been taken to the dealer over 10 times for quality related issues, the TLC has been taken once for a recall of the throttle body. After 1 year of owning the Yukon I was well on my way to figuring out a way to dump it, after the same amount of time and similar mileage the TLC looks, feels drives and even smells like the day we drove it off the lot. There is no way I will get rid of it. I could go on but I hope I got my point across.

 

[Junk]

Need some ammo to send to my friend. He’s telling me that his ’01 Yukon is better than the 100 series Land Cruisers.

If you really need help with this then I think you should sell your cruiser and buy a piece of crap like he did.

 

[cary]

You guys hit the nail on the head when you discussed pricing pressure. It used to be that Mercedes would design a car and then price it at what it cost to build, plus a profit. BMW was similar. Notice that in the early 1990's BMW's and Mercedes were both priced substantially above the equivilant Lexus and Infiniti. Well people started buying the premium Japanese cars and it put the German manufactures under increasing pressure to cut costs. Along with those cost cuts came problems. Also, they are not being helped by trying to cut operating costs by eliminating little things like Tranny fluid changes, diff oil changes, etc.

If you think about it, Mercedes builds two SUV's the Gladenwagen and the ML. The Gladen Wagen is an overbuilt tank, but costs $80,000+, while the ML (which has been problem prone) sells for $40,000+. Another example closer to home, Toyota builds two full size SUV's, one made to a price point, one built to be the best possible. While the Sequoia seems to be reliable (tell that to my friend that has had to replace two $1200 sunroofs that broke) they do not have the same feel as the Cruiser.

IMHO, the cruiser is the Mercedes or BMW of the 90's. Overengineered and overbuilt, two things that lead to vehicles that feel new and last a long time. I hope Toytota takes heed of the new article in Truck Trend where the LX 470 took second and the QX56 took fourth because of comments about the lack of a solid feel of the Infiniti. Taking a sequoia and optioning it up will not make a Landcruiser.

Cary

 

[Pitbull]

Cary some good points, but I've noticed a lot of platform and parts sharing in recent years. This is what is making the major difference for two examples like Toyota and Nissan. Example when you look at the new Lexus GX470 it shares the same platform as the 4th generation 4runner. It shares the same engine/transmission and electronics like traction systems, with the Landcruiser/4runner and the Lexus LX470. Now all Toyota/Lexus has to do is change some sheet metal and trim items and they increase profit while cutting expense. They even make them in the same factory. When a new 4.7 V8 engine comes off the line it might end up in a new 4runner or a new LX470. The key for the smart consumer is to buy the platform you want with the trim that you want for the lowest price you can get. They use to call it bang for the buck. But Toyota/Lexus knows that there will alway be customers that are willing to pay $20,000 for a Rolex to tell what time it is and show off their wealth and then you have the customers that are looking for the most quality for the cheapest price. Toyota and Nissan broke the code.

 

[MoJ]

If you mean "better" as in "it tows more" than I'm sure the Yukon wins. If you mean "better" as in "the initial cost is less" than the Yukon wins there as well. Finally if you mean "better" as in "it makes a better boat anchor after 100k miles" the Yukon takes the cake.

 

[GXO]

Just take him to a trail and say "follow me!"

Loser buys beer...

 

[dclee]

AFAIK, only the Cruiser and LX are built in the same factory (beloved Araco). The 4Runner/GX/120-Series Land Cruiser Prado (the first two both derived from the last one) are built elsewhere.

Then you have some oddballs like brand new 2004 80-Series being built in Venezuela. How'd you like to drive one of those home across the Rio Grande...?

As for platform sharing, check out the new Chrysler Crossfire...and its MB SLK gene pool...

I agree about Cruisers being like `90s MBs (maybe not so much BMWs, but hey, I'm allowed to have my own bias!). Our SL weighs 4145 pounds, and it's a 2-seater!!! At the time it was produced, it was the heaviest car in MB's lineup (heavier than even the 560 SEL, the equivalent of today's S-Class). Everything is well-thought-out, from the placement of wiring harnesses to the way the interior trim integrates into the body shell. And the doors are so heavy that it's like an upper-body workout trying to get in or out of the car. Talk about over-engineering!

IMHO the ultimate Mercedes Benz: the `92-`94 500E/E500, built on the W124 platform of the old 300E. It was designed in collaboration with Porsche, and built by them in their Zuffenhausen plant (former birthplace of the 959). It used the 5.0L V8 from the SL, totally reworked chassis and suspension, and a plush interior for four, with two bucket seats in back (the basic 300E had a three-person bench, and sat a total of five). It is known by some as the only four-door Porshe ever built. 0-60 in 5.9 sec., which isn't bad considering that's with an automatic slushbox with slip control and 2nd gear start. I will own one eventually, to complete my Holy Trinity of Benzes (1986 190E 2.3-16, 1990 500SL, and the aforementioned 500E).

BTW, I just read about USMC Force Recon choosing the 2.9L diesel variant of the G-Wagon as its IFAV (Improved Fast Attack Vehicle). I guess the Cruiser was too plush for the Marines to consider? OK, OK, sorry, I promise, back to Cruiser talk...

 

[Pitbull]

AFAIK, only the Cruiser and LX are built in the same factory (beloved Araco). The 4Runner/GX/120-Series Land Cruiser Prado (the first two both derived from the last one) are built elsewhere.

l.

Guess I was not clear, the Lexus GX470 and the Toyota 4runner are built in the same factory. The LC/LX are built in Araco and also other factories. I think here in the USA we only get the ones built in Araco, which is located in Japan, just down the road from Hino where the GX/4runner are built.

 

[cruiser99]

Show him This

 

[jjbodean1970]

MB gave owners "free" 2004 E class vehicle to replace their 2003 new E classes cause they put too much untested Bosch electronic technology that turned out to be real duds. one of my best friends is sales mgr at the local MB dealer - they can't stand 1/2 of their products cause the quality has gone to pot since they merged w/ chrysler.

there's a good reason toyota and lexus has been at the top of jd power rankings the last 10 years - they won't introduce a product until it's right. case in point, the new lexus rx 400h hybrid was slated for intro in december - it's been pushed back to may as of right now, but toyota/lexus attitude is "you only get one chance to intro a new product to the market. better get it right the first time" i agree w/ this mantra - take some extra time and DO IT RIGHT!!