One winch for both ends: Copying the land rover 101 setup

[bloc]

Years ago I went for a ride in my friend's Land Rover 101 military vehicle, and was impressed by the winch setup. It had a PTO winch mounted in the center of the vehicle, and you'd feed the cable out through pulleys along a frame rail to the front or rear, depending on where you needed the work done.

Years later, this got me thinking.. assuming the frame rails in our land cruisers are boxed front to rear, is it possible to emulate this setup and use the winch on the front bumper and a couple pulleys to redirect the cable through the frame rail to the rear of the truck?

Since the rails aren't perfectly straight, it'd obviously cause some friction at the bends. Any guesses as to whether this friction would be too much? If using wire rope, would it start to saw away at the frame? If using synthetic line, would the welds from boxing and other bracket attachment snag the rope and cause problems?

Does the frame rail even go all the way through front to rear? or are there "doors" in the way other than at the extreme front or rear that would stop all of this thinking in its tracks?

Having the winch rope pulled strongly toward one frame rail wouldn't make for great spooling conditions.. but in a pinch?

So.. any ideas whether this could work?

Reference:
http://home.el-image.com/play/landys/lr101.htm

 

[onlyonedr]

I think trying to fish the wire rope through the frame would be an effort in patience. There are a lot of things to snag on inside the rails so synthetic rope is out. Your pulley and mount would have to withstand twice the pulling power of the winch to redirect it backwards (since the same line tension pulls on both sides). Overall I think it would be a novelty but not very practical. If there was a straight-through space to run a piece of conduit from one end of the truck to the other that would make it a bit easier.

 

[Mudder]

If you're stuck in mud do you really want to be fighting it and getting down there to find where it stuck or moving it from the front to the rear?

 

[shelfboy1]

the british and germans had center mounted winches on thier trucks in ww 2 and after .i can tell you if your under water or down to the frame in mud you will wish you had a front and or rear winch .i have 2 winches on all my winch equipped trucks and have for many years .if you keep a strap or small cable in the frame to pull the winch cable through it helps but you still may need a comealong even to pull the cable through.i would rethink this idea a bit more

 

[bloc]

There are other issues.. like having something on the end of the winch rope small enough to feed through the frame.. but like you mentioned having a cable pre-strung to pull the actual winch rope through when needed mostly solves the getting-the-cable-through problem.

Either way.. I don't see this as something I'd use all the time.. just a possible idea that may be easy to plan for when doing the work of installing winch/bumpers (holes in front and rear bumpers, and a pre-built assembly with the pulleys and some way to attach it).. that might get someone out of a jam now and then.

I just haven't liked the re/movable winches I've seen.. and having one each front and rear doesn't come close to fitting into my cost/need matrix.

As it is the problem of being required to run wire rope is a significant one.. synthetic would be better for nearly every pull out the front.. which would be nearly all of them, the way I envision this working out. Might have to see if there is a way to make the rope end as small as possible and shove some conduit through the boxed frame or something.

Either way, thanks for the critiques and thoughts.. let me know if you guys have any more.

 

[TDavidson]

Why does it need to go through the frame? Could you build an A-frame out the front with snatch blocks to run under the vehicle. Still the issue of how you run it through mud under the vehicle.

No experience here. Just like quirky ideas like this.

 

[onlyonedr]

I just haven't liked the re/movable winches I've seen.. and having one each front and rear doesn't come close to fitting into my cost/need matrix.

You never need it, until YOU NEED IT. Keep an eye out for deals, used, fixer-uppers, etc. I bought my rear M8000 for half the price of new and it works like a champ.

 

[bloc]

I'm having trouble justifying a front winch given my aversion to mud and planned use of the vehicle. However the front one falls into the category of something that all the supporting stuff will be there for anyway, and is worth investing in because I'll likely find a way to use it.. even with the previously mentioned caveats. An actual rear winch? Like I said, doesn't work into the math for me. Especially if, for how infrequently I'd use it, I can find an alternate solution to pull from the rear using the front winch.

I'll be investigating this further (slowly) and plan to keep this thread updated with anything I find.

 

[shelfboy1]

i have used rear winches more than front winches the only reason folks use front winches more is thats all they have .given a choice the rear winch has come in mighty handy more than you think .i can also load my car hauler with it ,snow mobile trailer and 4 wheeler when they are broke .the extra 100 feet of cable comes in handy under certain recoveries also.if your use is minimal carry a good come a long for those rare uses

 

[Southeast Overland]

Not sure if I would go inside the frame rail without some sort of roller system inside off the bends. I would be afraid that either the cable would get chewed up, or the frame would get chewed up. Neither are good. The other down side would be that no matter what you do, you will always be pulling from one side of the frame. This can pull the truck sideways and also load the frame in ways that it was never designed to be loaded.

With that being said, if you could find a way to center the line between the frame rails on rollers or something similar I believe you could make it work. It would still be a giant pain to switch the winchline from front to rear every time.

My vote would be to go to a receiver hitch style winch mount, this way you can move the winch from front to back as you need it.

~Jeff

 

[shelfboy1]

i have done that years ago bury the truck up to the frame and try to snake a cable undreneath .most german and british trucks had a center mount winch and came with roller for front or rear winching .the winch was a sidewinder style and could go either way .check out some british or geman trucks from ww2 they have some good ideas on how this works and may make life easier for you good luck

 

[Tapage]

This is more less the idea

 

[krzyabncanuck]

I know where there is an FJ40 with center mount 8274 winch for sale in NC.

I also know a Unimog owner that has a sweet set up with a pulley set up that if he needs to pull his truck to the rear he runs it thru some pulleys and it is out the rear. His Mog is pretty tall though.

 

[bloc]

Thanks for the pics guys.

The idea of running it through the frame is mainly for routing.. To be able to avoid the cable wrapping and pulling on random parts, and if a good solution is found stringing the cable to the rest would be quick and easy. My thought was that the bends in the frame are gradual enough that internal pullies wouldn't be required.

At the hardware store the other day I noticed PVC conduit.. Which might work with poly winch line. Reintroduces the problem of getting it through the frame, and any real end to the winch line through it.. But more ideas anyway.

 

[shelfboy1]

having a winch underneath where you cant get to it easily is not a good idea .its a novelty that not many people use and will wear off when it leaves you stranded somewhere becuse you cant get to it ..run a pipe the length of the frame front to back to run the cable through with a roller so it doesnt bind if you need to go through with this good luck

 

[TLC Norway]

I did this on a hilux with flatbed. Had the winch on top, behind the cab. Pulley mounted on hitch receiver, and went under the bed and along the center of the frame, in 5 stainless c shaped hawses. In front it came out 6 inches left of center, to clear oil pan.
A flawless setup, that I love.
Easy to unhook the pulley at the rear and snatch anything in the rear direction.
Also, the rope spools perfectly in on the drum, due to the distance to the pulley.

Not sure if I would do this with a winch mounted under the bed/floor.
Then I would make a hatch to get to it in case of emergency.
Planning to put a remote acuator on the freespool handle.

I'll see if I can dig out some photos.

 

[peteinjp]

Here ya go:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/gertrude-centre-mounted-pto-winch.61398/

Pete

 

[bloc]

I guess I should clarify.. I am not talking about putting the winch in the center of the rig.. My idea is to use the winch on the front to pull from the rear also. I only brought up the 101 and the center mounted winch because it was the only example I knew of that got me thinking about this.

But.. that '40 setup is awesome.

If I go anywhere with this I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[TLC Norway]

Okay, I see...
I still think you can use c-hooks/hawse attached along the frame/crossmember or ontop of axles (if used only when rigging up for rear pull) to guide the rope.
You'd have to rig a pulley/block in the front, if the winch is mounted like normal.

Here are some of the above mentioned, for inspiration.
You cab only see one c-hook next to the gearbox.
This has proven to be quite a setup for a trail only rig, it has gotten me and quite a few others out of pretty bad situations.
Even did a side pull off camber, just pulled the rope from underneath the rig, sideways.

I also used it a few times to lift the axles for service or recovery, don't have to lift the flex out of the hilift.

 

[bloc]

That is a nice setup.

But, as others have pointed out, the problem with clips along the underside of the truck is when you need to switch from pulling one direction to the other, it makes it very difficult/messy while buried frame deep in mud or something along those lines.

My idea is to have a channel go front to rear to push/pull the line through when switching pull directions. I was hoping the frame rail would serve that purpose.. but the more that I look at things there are plenty of bolts/welds/brackets that protrude into the inside of the rail. And I still haven't worked out whether you can even go all the way front to rear.. there may be "walls" or solid obstructions welded in. There is definitely one right behind the front bumper on my '80 which can be easily removed. If one is right in the middle of the truck though? not so easy.