Okay, Now I'm Completely Convinced: ALL Original HG's Are Actively Failing!

[turbocruiser]

This HG issue seems to be the opposite of how you can get a rig with lockers without paying more because most people don't know what they are anyway.

Well, with the HG, we know there's a problem, but most people don't, so to us they're all essentially $2-3K overpriced. Unfortunately, that's honestly how I see it at this point: I'd love to have an FZJ, but wouldn't buy one unless the price felt right to me including an estimate for a HG replacement, and that's not likely to happen.

Bummer.

Curtis

I see both sides to that arguement; if I was shopping for an 80 and found a fabulous one with lockers I would explain to the seller this problem and make an offer to either split the cost for the HG repair or to take the cost of an extended warranty off the price. If they were not willing, I'd either skip it or strongly consider the complete price compared to market etc. No reason at all to avoid an amazing vehicle, just a reason to have some savy doing the deal. HTH.

 

[turbocruiser]

The motor and tranny are actively dying too. They just take a while to do so (for some of us).

Not really, they will get good long expectancy lifespans with maintenance, proper usage, proper prevention, etc. ... the HG's are not getting good lifespans regardless of all the above. Two different things if'n ya ask me!

 

[turbocruiser]

Where else can you get such a high quality vehicle for under 20k that can last you as long as an 80 or any LC could. IMHO I've gotten more than my moneys worth with this rig, even with the HG pm looming over my head.

Exactly!

 

[turbocruiser]

Turbo, Actually I do have question while you are doing HG wouldn't be better if you also replace the piston rings and timing chain also? I'm sorry maybe I just anal myself but personally I would I mean most of us here our rigs will be getting close to 200K why not replace them as well?

Well, if you want to go for it. My chain and rings are in awesome shape, why would I? Ohh, dontchu at me lowrider!!!

 

[turbocruiser]

I'm going to try to bring this up again- what are ppls opinions on the custom metal headgaskets sandwiched between 2 factory toyota headgaskets, as mentioned by EL_3grab? Apparently, this setup is commonly used in turbo applications there. I know this is used to slighlty lower compression, but would this provide any additional protection against HG failure?

I dont think that the replacements are failing so doing this WILL definitely address one problem, the old original gaskets, but I dont think that the replacements are failing so it wont address any non-existing problems. Plus, then you would want to really mill the head to get that compression back right? JMHO but replacing with the improved design is the way to go IMHO.

 

[turbocruiser]

What's the instance of green antifreeze users with HG problems?

Excellent question, where's e9999 when ya need him. Let's split the poll of people with replaced gaskets and see the ratio of Red to Green. After talking with Robbie, I'm seriously considering going to green myself. I'd like to learn more about this. Thanks, excellent question, again.

Gotta go walk the pup.

 

[bjowett]

My engine has ARP studs. Bolts are, and always will be the penny pinchers choice for securing the cylinder head to the block. Toyota is far from the only manufacturer to be touched by these gasket issues... Subaru, Ford, VW, probably most... IMO, the better gasket is the cheaper way out. Back it up with studs, and maybe a few other tweeeeeeks, and worry no more.

 

[Gumby]

HG "problems" are no reason to not buy an FZJ.

But, you know, if you want to believe that, more for me.

 

[MH_Stevens]

Idea: This summer why do we not all congregate for a weeks camping somewhere central and with natural beauty. We all bring our tools and we all line up in a row, and with Robbie as master walking up and down the line checking us out, we all do our head gaskets together, helping each other out as needs be. Those who have done this before can come as consultants or just sit around drinking and giggling at the rest of us.

Mike

 

[adam4x4]

"Idea: This summer why do we not all congregate for a weeks camping somewhere central and with natural beauty. We all bring our tools and we all line up in a row, and with Robbie as master walking up and down the line checking us out, we all do our head gaskets together, helping each other out as needs be. Those who have done this before can come as consultants or just sit around drinking and giggling at the rest of us."




Now that is the best idea I have heard of yet!!

 

[spartan]

Ok folks - I'm going to mess with this thread. Slow typing here since I'm eating health food - fritos - wit the left hand and drinking screwdrivers with the right while trying to type at the same time.

According to my records my HG blew on my '97 40th in December of 2000 at 49,606 miles. Toyota replaced it under warranty. Considering what I've read about HG's on this site I feel fortunate.

Did I get a new model HG? I dunno. I do know that the dufus tech who put it in left the metal edge of it bent outwards far enough to shred my inner alternator belt over time.

Since then I haven't had any problems and see no indications of problems. I feel lucky thus far until the thing starts blowing white smoke again.

I don't think it has anything to do with the studs. I feel that it was / is poor gasket material design on the vehicle.

 

[spartan]

Adam - do you have a portable parts cleaner with 100 gallons of solvent - only way that's going to happen...

 

[turbocruiser]

Ok folks - I'm going to mess with this thread.

According to my records my HG blew on my '97 40th in December of 2000 at 49,606 miles. Toyota replaced it under warranty. Considering what I've read about HG's on this site I feel fortunate.

Did I get a new model HG? I dunno. I do know that the dufus tech who put it in left the metal edge of it bent outwards far enough to shred my inner alternator belt over time.

Since then I haven't had any problems and see no indications of problems. I feel lucky thus far until the thing starts blowing white smoke again.

I don't think it has anyhting to do with the studs. I feel that it was / is poor gasket material design on the vehicle.

That's not messing with the thread, that's great info, just a little more please but first take another tip of the drink!!! How many miles on that HG since then? And then secondly a question for Dan the Man, in Dec of 2000, were the replacements then the redesign or the old design? Although I'm having a hard time with the bolt thoughts, if it is in fact a weakness then I would want to replace those as well as the HG. I've sent a PM to Bjowett to ask about that but with Robbie and almost all the other super respected sources I've spoken to, no one seems to share the thought that the bolts are the problem. Anyways, again, good post, can you anser the other two questions please? Thanks Man.

 

[MoJ]

Vehicles equipped with original head gaskets are living on borrowed time (in my opinion). My vehicle will have a new head gasket as soon as I am able to do so. I am not going to play "chicken" to see who blinks first........

D-

Dan -

I want to thank you for ruining my day at the firing range. It's usually my weekend relaxer to squeeze a few hundred rounds but I read your comment early this morning and all I could think each time I stopped to reload was, "holy s***, I'm playing chicken with my head gasket. Dan said he wasn't waiting to see who blinks first. I've been in denial. Crap, I should've bought the cheap rounds."



My biggest problem with the 80's HG isn't the fact that it likes to fail. It's the fact that the job is beyond my skills and I'm reluctant to take it just anywhere to get it done. I don't have a Robbie nearby. I really don't mind paying to have it done, but I don't know of anyone with experience on this motor. After all, most of us talking failure are talking about failure on rigs with 100k+ miles. We expect them to operate flawlessly, just as they would new. I'll admit, being raised around Toyota's, I'm a bit disappointed if they don't hit at least 200k before a major repair job is needed. However, I find myself thinking, "If I wasn't driving an 80, what would I get?" I wouldn't trade it for a 100, a new FJ, a 4-Runner, a Tacoma, a Heep, etc. My .02

 

[whodat]

I bought mine with 108k on the ticker, now it has 124ish....I have a sneeking suspicion that the HG was replaced before I got it. But no evidence to back it up. So I'm all for the job as a PM, but would hate to get in there and realize it's already been replaced. Any way to tell? wd

 

[powderpig]

I am sneeeking a little time in on the board before supper.
The material you are seeing is part of the head gasket sluffing away from the gasket. Yes there was a couple of the places where the gasket is swollen. Shaun did not see it, but the pic show it.
As for studs, they are perfered for HP engines and maintaining the head really well. But even in the diesel world, bolts work well(relly big ones, but not big ship diesels). The thing I wonder if the stud has some type of installing method(external torx or external allen). then you could put a couple in then lay the head in, then put the rest on. If not then, you could not install the head unless you beat the back of the fire wall to create the space needed.

Hope this helps explain. I just got caught, I have to go. later robbie

 

[moknys]

My LC has 85k miles. at what milage should the gaskets be replaced?

 

[spartan]

OK - I'll bite.....

Yes it is great information. As far as I know my HG failure is one of the earliest on record. Was I happy about it ? No. Am I now? Knowing what I know now. You bet your bipppee!

It was not a catastrophic failure by any means. It was still running and we drove it in for service.

I have done searches to try and determine the date of updated head gaskets without success. I hope I have an updated unit, but who knows? We will see.

The truck currently has 123K miles on it. No problems currently. Front axle service completed. Rear axle done. Other misc. stuff. Brake pads replaced on a regular basis. Lubed and greased regularly. Diferential fluids drained and replaced routinely.

Nice truck. No real problems. HG again - I might shoot the engine!

 

[pr0ject42]

The thing I wonder if the stud has some type of installing method(external torx or external allen). then you could put a couple in then lay the head in, then put the rest on.

I know the 22-R(ET) guys just say don't put the back two studs on until after you get the head on, otherwise the firewall gets in the way of the head while you try to slide it down. I don't know if they have a torx head on them, but I'm pretty sure there is some sort of provisioning.

Here is something I read on DOA's website. I know it applies to the 3vze, however I think it is good reading:

This stud kit is an excellent, affordable upgrade to any 3.0 Toyota engine!!
The factory head bolts are less than acceptable in OEM situations, and are in no way acceptable for any rebuild, performance or otherwise. The OEM torque value of 33lb. + 90ƒ + 90ƒ yields almost a 12lb. variance, and is a serious contributing factor in 3.0 head gasket failures!! This is a fact.

Factory head bolts should never be reused, and this is a major monetary issue, especially when a gasket has failed.

DOA's head studs can be reused repeatedly, have zero torque variance, and aid considerably in head gasket seal!!

This is a "win, win" for the rebuilder and the consumer. DOA's head stud kit costs less than OEM head bolts, and they offer consistent torque yield, and this means a greater seal, period!!
Each kit includes 16 studs and 16 grade 8 nuts. [Note: the factory washers are retained and reused with these studs.]

 

[CJF]

HG "problems" are no reason to not buy an FZJ.

But, you know, if you want to believe that, more for me.

That's my point. We're the only ones who know this, so the general public will still keep the prices up, and no, there won't be more for you or me. Won't be much of a bargaining point either, cuz sellers will just laugh at us if we start in with, "Ya know, that HG really needs to be replaced, how 'bout you knock off a couple G's?"

I realize this is an argument I ain't gonna win in this crowd.

Just a bummer all around.

Curtis