Need rebuilt or new 1FZ for 97 Cruiser

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Heh - got that wrong, I guess. The way I heard it you were soaking your hands in Palmolive with some lady named Madge due to a hard day wrenching. Then you came back to the trusty 1FZ and couldn't resist a little more fun but failed to wipe off the Palmolive. Beyond that, the story gets fuzzy, so glad you cleared it up. Snicker.

Good stuff on the pan gasket comment - something to look for as well. I think the gasket sealer may refer to the two inch long strips that go under the gasket at the timing chain hole during head reassembly.

DougM
(MISTER SpudHead to you)
 
To the owner of the vehicle that has the spun or worn rod bearing.

Without any disrespect or prejudice towards other respondents, I believe you are being given incorrect information concerning your issue. In the event that your engine has incurred bottom end damage (a spun rod bearing is the most likely culprit) my recommendation would be to quit while you are ahead and focus on replacing this engine. The dealer's diagnosis of a spun rod bearing sounds accurate given the symptoms, and I see no evidence of wrongdoing from your head gasket mechanic, quite the contrary actually.

A head gasket can fail a number of ways, often (and as is the case with most FZJ80s) it is a case of the coolant passages becoming open to the combustion chamber. Often times this is noticeable due to white smoke emanations due to coolant being burned by the combustion process (essentially steam). However, in certain circumstances the coolant (which can now enter the combustion chamber) can leak down past the piston rings into the bottom end of the engine, diluting the engine oil. The coolant will emulsify with the oil when the engine is running and will be pumped through the oil pressure system. This is very bad as the coolant dilutes the oil and the lubrication properties go out the window. Damage to bearings can result. The reason the oil pressure drops is as the bearing or bearings wear, all the relative tolerances (space between surfaces) increases and the resistance to oil flow decreases, hence the pressure drops. The information you have been given leads me to believe that not only is a new engine required, but your technician is probably not at fault. Although I am speculating, the oil pan removal (hence oil pan gasket) was likely for inspection purposes and for cleaning out all the coolant/oil goo that was in the bottom end of the engine. It is something I quote with every head gasket job I complete when there is evidence of coolant ingress into the engine.

In addition, the technician appears adamant that it is futile to spend time and money on a dead engine. This would also be my recommendation. It is obvious that the damage is severe due to the symptoms (combination of loud noise and lack of oil pressure). Performing a post-mortem will likely only confirm the bearing damage but my not provide a clear indication of the cause of failure. Although it is not impossible to incorrectly complete a head gasket replacement and damage an engine in this manner, it is unlikely, and my opinion is that the damage was likely present prior to the head gasket replacement being performed. I am again speculating but I am guessing that the engine started behaving badly after a high speed, high load run on a highway. This is a high stress situation for an engine bottom end and any damage present would likely make itself known in such a condition.

Hope this sheds some insight into your issue. Although this constitutes an opinion that is founded on my professional training and experience as a motor vehicle technician, your mileage may vary.
 
Fromage said:
To the owner of the vehicle that has the spun or worn rod bearing.

Without any disrespect or prejudice towards other respondents, I believe you are being given incorrect information concerning your issue.

That would be ffahey who has previously said this ....

ffahey said:
The post mortem is being done by my local toyota dealer. So far, we know the problem is not in the block. It is in the head.

The dealer does not seem to think it has a bad crank bearing.

I am curious why you think the mechanic that did the head job would miss the signs of failed crank bearing(s). Surely when he drained the oil during the $1,600 HG repair he would have seen signs of a catastrophic bearing failure that you describe don't you think?

-B-
 
RICK should hire Fromage as an expert witness -- that was an eloquent post and very informative for those of us with little mechanical expertise.

However, I think that the post-mortem examination gives ffahey peace of mind for a few hundred dollars. At least he gets a 2nd opinion on what he needs to do.
 
Beowulf said:
That would be ffahey who has previously said this ....
The dealer does not seem to think it has a bad crank bearing.
I am curious why you think the mechanic that did the head job would miss the signs of failed crank bearing(s). Surely when he drained the oil during the $1,600 HG repair he would have seen signs of a catastrophic bearing failure that you describe don't you think?
-B-

Probably not if most of the damage hadn't occured yet. If a massive bearing failure had occured the noise and other indicators would have been present. There might have been some damage to the bearings that hadn't yet resulted in visible (actually, probably more audible than anything else) indicators. Personally, if there was any indication of coolant contamination in the oil I would have cut open the oil filter and looked for some metal, most don't bother, it is kind of anal. It is rare that a HG would result in bottom end damage but it does happen.

I had missed that part about the noise coming from the top end. This changes everything. I believe the garage having looked at the vehicle when it started knocking had pronounced it as having a 'thrown rod', which is highly unlikely, so I had assumed that it wasn't actually a broken rod but a rod end problem. If they have pinpointed the noise as being the top end, I would be very interested in knowing what happened and I would be pulling it apart.
 
FF, you are in better shape than if you hadn't paid the bill fully yet, as far as leverage. But, of course, if the guy screwed up your engine, that'll still cost you more possibly than the remaining amount due and you may still need to take additional action. I would not pay him until the dust settles. However, be careful because IIRC (no lawyer here, so there...) there is such a thing as a Mechanic's Lien and he could give you trouble as well.

It is very hard to believe that this failure would be entirely coincidental and not related to that immediately past job...
 
part of the problem for me with this is that it would be the first that I've seen here on the forum in that a problem happened right after the engine work that was actually there prior to the repair.

Then again I had problems getting my head around IdahoDoug's situation until the first known to me Cracked Head was identified.
 
CruiserLegolas said:
RICK should hire Fromage as an expert witness -- that was an eloquent post and very informative for those of us with little mechanical expertise.

However, I think that the post-mortem examination gives ffahey peace of mind for a few hundred dollars. At least he gets a 2nd opinion on what he needs to do.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. The post mortem may yield some interesting findings, however my experience has been that you may not gain any insight into the failure. Personally if it were my job, I would pull it apart for free just to ensure my customer returns happy and so I can sleep at night, knowing that I didn't screw up.

I should state that my opinions should be taken with a grain of salt - I have no professional training on Toyota products. I operate a small scale independent 4wd repair business which specialises in Land-Rover products. I have never really needed to look elsewhere for work.

My exposure to broken toyotas has been limited mostly limited to my own fleet of BJ diesels, the last of which I am looking to replace with an FZJ80, hence why I am here soaking up the info.
 
Fromage said:
I operate a small scale independent 4wd repair business which specialises in Land-Rover products. I have never really needed to look elsewhere for work.

ROTFLMAO

Welcome to the 80 section here on 'Mud. :flipoff2:

-B-
 
Fromage said:
Thanks for the vote of confidence. The post mortem may yield some interesting findings, however my experience has been that you may not gain any insight into the failure...

No disrespect here, but are you saying that you don't think the post-mortem will yield any information in regards to the cause of the failure? Just trying to clarify this statement as it seems a tad counter-intuitive to me...
 
Maybe my 4runner head gasket story might give some credence to Fromage. I blew the head gasket in my 4runner turbo at 179k. Brought it into my shop, swapped in a new head and gasket, did 4 oil changes in the course of the first hour of running, and she never ran better. I drove it, and pretty hard at times to make sure all was well. After about 8 days or so, I packed up all our camping stuff and headed over to my daughters school to pick her up for the trip to NY. 5 minutes from her school, I had massive rod bearing failure. Knocking like an SOB. I wrote it off to a bit too long miles on the motor itself, and the extra wear from the antifreeze being in the oil.

I pulled the pan off, and found the #4 bearing was all but gone, lot's of gold glitter in the oil.

I'd only have 2 questions for the dealer. Are the plug wires correctly routed to the distributor, and is there metal in the oil.

Yes and yes? Pay your mechanic, and look for a motor.

My invoice would differ in that I'd have 4 or 5 oil changes on that HG bill.

I personally don't like to see invoices spit out to forums. Too little information to make a virtual diagnostic. Get it cked out, but don't spend too much time on it, you don't need to.

Scott Justusson
 
I also suspect the best second opinion would be an oil analysis, not a teardown. Looking for antifreeze in the oil. Doesn't look like you'll find it with the oil clean comment. The noise in the head usually comes from low oil pressure, the head gets starved for oil, you hear it, btdt. I'm still with Fromage original thinking, this is a bearing wear problem. Caused either by a headgasket failure that caused 169k worn bearings to wear out quickly, or were marginal before the headgasket blew. It could be that the oil pressure was low after the HG repair, and all the subsequent issues and noises were a result of that low oil pressure.

Regular oil changes? K&N filter? How long did one drive the truck after the HG failed? Did one know it was a HG failure immediately and get a tow? How often does one ck the oil (revealing oil in antifreeze)? I'd sure want a bunch more information before I'd shoot the messenger (mechanic). How long did he drive it before it was delivered and invoiced?

SJ
 
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Informationally, after a HG replacement even the fresh oil put in afterwards will show traces of coolant at the Blackstone Labs level. I swapped mine out twice also - great idea.

DougM
 
so did ffahey ever find the true problem?
 
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