need a CRAPPER!!!
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Advent said:I don't know about anyone else, but I got a kick out of the 'normal operating temperatures' listed for the PETT.
If it's colder than -40, does the bag shatter?
Dood if you're taking a crap outdoors in -40 weather, you have bigger problems than pinching off a loaf. Besides, I think it's physically impossible to unclench at that temp;p
Brentbba straps his toilet to the roof
FirstToy said:Dood if you're taking a crap outdoors in -40 weather, you have bigger problems than pinching off a loaf. Besides, I think it's physically impossible to unclench at that temp;p
Brentbba straps his toilet to the roof
LOL! Then we incinerate the stuff every night!
What about getting a roll of those biodegradable plastic bags (like for one of the other portable toilets), and just burying them?
I'm of course thinking about when you're miles and miles from the road, not camping with your kids behind the local 7-11.
I'm of course thinking about when you're miles and miles from the road, not camping with your kids behind the local 7-11.
Advent said:
If you're burying, why not just bury?
Why bury it in a bag?
Part of the idea of the biodegradeable bags with the PETT is that you can chuck them in a dumpster when you get back to civilization.
Hayes
Hayes said:
Agreed - be as environmentally careful as possible. Don't bury at all, pack it out and dispose of everything properly. As has been stated, the PETT WAAG bags are approved for disposal in regular garbage cans.
Brentbba said:
...and if buried poo just has to happen, then you're supposed to (environmentally speaking) smear it around and mix it in with the soil, of course. And then there's the toilet paper...
After years of trekking around assorted high alpine, desert, and coastal backcountry on foot and on ski, I've experienced quite a variety of poo protocols.
I never knew that wiping with snowballs could be so refreshing...
At least you don't have to put it in your backpack.
Hayes
Brentbba said:
I guess this must be a west coast thing having to pack out your crap, but can I ask what the animals do with theirs? How about when you pack it out and throw it away in a garbage can. Where does that end up? I'm guessing a landfill. Get it? LANDfill. I guess the old joke "if a bear sheets in the woods" is not as funny as it use to be. Now it would go something like 'if a bear sheets in the woods it must be into a plastic bag"....
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Rusty Shackleford said:I guess this must be a west coast thing having to pack out your crap, but can I ask what the animals do with theirs? How about when you pack it out and throw it away in a garbage can. Where does that end up? I'm guessing a landfill. Get it? LANDfill. I guess the old joke "if a bear sheets in the woods" is not as funny as it use to be. Now it would go something like 'if a bear sheets in the woods it must be into a plastic bag"....
You'd be guessing wrong.
Rusty-There arn't as many bears, they don't concentrate near the trail and they don't leave TP flowers everywhere. Much of the Western environment is basically desert and buried crap and TP may not decompose for years.
If you don't think this is an issue, look how the forest service used "human waste" to close the entire Spider Lake area on Rubicon last summer. That used to be one of the prime first night camp spots and is was rendered disgusting (and then off-limits) by all the irresponsible yahoo 4wheelers that hang out at Little Sluice and get wasted. The camps around Buck Island are not much better and if they get closed, there won't be anywhere to stay on the first night of that trail.
Land fills are built to handle garbage, the trail environment is not. Packing out your crap and TP is definitely the lesser of 2 evils. It is becoming the standard for responsible 4 wheelers whether you like the policy or not.
As part of the effort to keep trails open, everyone who spends the night out on the trail should pack out their crap. Wise up or watch the trails you love to play on closed to you and everyone else
I hear you loud and clear. It the commie libs that ruin it for most though, not the yahoo 4 wheelers IMHO. I mean, there is bio paper available. I know that the bears do not concentrate on the trails, but there are way more animals out there than that I hope. Why not a septic system with crapper shacks if the trails are used by this many people? I just don't get it. Here we have portable toilets on the trail systems, but the terrain is not as harsh. I know it would be difficult to build a permanent solution, but it would only take a day or two to round up all the migrant protesters and put them to work like they keep marching and saying that is all they want anyway. What do they (feds) say about oil and fule spills? I bet that is much more dangerous to the enviroment than a little poop. One way or another them Cali commies will find a way to close it down if it's being used in a way they don't like.
Rusty Shackleford said:
Very simple. Crap in a bag and take it with you.
personal responsibility would go a long way in easing the fight for access.
edit:
You know the more I read this thread, the more pissed I get. It is EXACTLY the ignorant wheelers that ruin the trails and no, I don't think permanant crap-shacks would add to the stunning view of the western landscape. You keep a field service kit for your rig, put a waag bag in it.
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That's the point though Rusty...if the yahoo 4 wheelers used biodegradable toilet paper AND made some sort of effort to bury their waste as well as finding a spot that does not allow for run-off into a beautiful lake, there wouldn't likely be a problem.
And...it's not just a little poo...it's a WHOLE LOT OF POO.
I have (and I know others have too) seen piles human waste (and TP) just mere feet away from established outhouses. I don't think you appreciate the stupidity of some of the people who have caused the problems we've expeienced on the Rubicon trail.
This has been happening for years. It's not a case of Cali-commies running amok...some of the people here are just too stupid for their own good.
Fuel spills? Well, that's going to happen on the trail itself and, in most cases, people seem to make an effort to clean that up.
And...it's not just a little poo...it's a WHOLE LOT OF POO.
I have (and I know others have too) seen piles human waste (and TP) just mere feet away from established outhouses. I don't think you appreciate the stupidity of some of the people who have caused the problems we've expeienced on the Rubicon trail.
This has been happening for years. It's not a case of Cali-commies running amok...some of the people here are just too stupid for their own good.
Fuel spills? Well, that's going to happen on the trail itself and, in most cases, people seem to make an effort to clean that up.
Rusty,
That's also a benefit of the PETT WAAG bags. They contain POO POWDER to, I presume, help the decomposition and make it safe to dispose of in a landfill.
Be responsible - LEAVE NO TRACE. Remain on established trails and pack out everything you bring in.
That's also a benefit of the PETT WAAG bags. They contain POO POWDER to, I presume, help the decomposition and make it safe to dispose of in a landfill.
Be responsible - LEAVE NO TRACE. Remain on established trails and pack out everything you bring in.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Rusty Shackleford said:
I disagree-we have met the enemy and it is us. Using my Rubicon example, hundreds of people can be up there on any given summer weekend. The problem/losers hang out at Little Sluice and trash the place. They leave their sh*t unburied with TP everywhere just over a rock out cropping away from the Sluice. It is contaminated and a health risk. That isn't "commie libs"...
Rusty Shackleford said:
Proposed and done before. There is basically no soil there and so no drainage for the septic systems. Plus the same fools shoot the houses full of holes and make them useless-you see, in their world, that's part of the fun. Again, no "commie libs" involved in the destruction of this wonderful trail.
Rusty Shackleford said:
Your trail systems are basically 4wd theme parks on private land. The camps are not spread out over miles of trail running through a National Forest. In the West there are long multi-day trails on public land. Big difference. There is no way to get a septic pump truck into the Rubicon no matter how many illegals they "rounded up" to do it.
Rusty Shackleford said:
What they say is "close the trail to motorized access". It was this very issue that was used to close Suprise Canyon down in Paniment Valley. That's why the TLCA and other emphasize a pretrip inpsection to keep obvious leakers off the trail. I hate seeing an oily mess on granite, or anywhere else. I had to pack a differential worth of contaminated diff oil off the trail when I broke an axle. It was a major PIA but the alternative would have been to provide more ammunition of the pro-closure groups. The point is, we can't leave poop or oil out on the trail and expect the trail to stay open. Also remember that poop is far more dangerous to other humans-do you want to pick up a nice case of hepatitis from your campsite?
Rusty Shackleford said:
Maybe they will, but it is in our best long term interest not to make the problem worse. Most of the problems I have seen have been from other 4 wheelers. It's sad but true. How many drunken fools have you seen on the trail? I've seen plenty. This is very hard on the image we want to project as responsible 4 wheelers. We need to change our image and our practices, or the only place we will engage 4wd will be in the driveway. I've lived here for 22 years and I've never met a "Cali commie"-maybe you can tell me how to recognize one. Anti-access groups are everywhere, even in Texas and other places back East.
Fuel spills etc.:
Yeah, I figure a 5500 lb chunk of Toyota with 34" MTRs and a leaking transfer case has more impact on the environment than lowly turd. That's why it's irresponsible to drive yer truck all over the unpaved contryside wherever you please.
Wheeling on established trails keeps it fun for all and constrains the oil slick (more or less, depending), but it turns one lowly turd into many.
Generally speaking, I don't feel too contaminated and at unecessary health risk when I'm up to my elbows in moly grease, but I'm not too keen on coming into contact with poo.
Who would build these trailside outhouses? Who would maintain them? Pay for them?
The off road clubs? Maybe. Didn't think the local TLCA chapter had that much extra money.
Maybe the Feds.
Of course then I'd have to blame all those red bastards on the left for raising my taxes .
Hayes
Yeah, I figure a 5500 lb chunk of Toyota with 34" MTRs and a leaking transfer case has more impact on the environment than lowly turd. That's why it's irresponsible to drive yer truck all over the unpaved contryside wherever you please.
Wheeling on established trails keeps it fun for all and constrains the oil slick (more or less, depending), but it turns one lowly turd into many.
Generally speaking, I don't feel too contaminated and at unecessary health risk when I'm up to my elbows in moly grease, but I'm not too keen on coming into contact with poo.
Who would build these trailside outhouses? Who would maintain them? Pay for them?
The off road clubs? Maybe. Didn't think the local TLCA chapter had that much extra money.
Maybe the Feds.
Of course then I'd have to blame all those red bastards on the left for raising my taxes
. Hayes
Cruiserdrew said:
Well, I grew up in SoCal, so I know they are there. One of the reasons I will never live there again in this lifetime. I'm glad you enjoy it though. It takes all kinds ya know.