MWC valve solution

[woytovich]

Well I spent some quality time with my LCI water can lid looking for a good way to add a valve.

https://www.redcheetah.com/lci/item_details.php?sess_id=f22bdb5b5a6aca1b785bc5a36509f99c&sku=906396

I wanted to make it easier to use as a water source when camping. I wanted something that didn't compromise the integrity of the can during transport and that was super simple. I played around with a few ideas and finally settled on this.

I ordered up a couple of replacement lids for the water cans - they are about $6 each plus shipping (you have to order them on the phone because the website has a $50 minimum order)

600118 Replacement Cap - Desert Tan
906841 Replacement Cap - OD Green

So I took this...

 

[woytovich]

And I shortened the pour spout hole (down to the ring cast in the plastic) and added a brass valve. Simple! It threads in TIGHT. I use the can laying on its side and don't get any leaking. The brass valve cut some nice threads into the plastic.

I just unscrew the unmodified cap and let it hang by its strap and screw on the cap with the valve. I even cut off the big ring and popped a hole in the strap part so I can hand it on a hook in the trailer. It

 

[VanGo]

Mark,

Looks good! I did a similiar mod to one of my MWC caps using a igloo spout, similiar to what you see on the 5 gal picnic cooler. It worked, but chugged along and eventually vapor locked to the point of a slight trickle. Also, when tilting the can over to use the spout the shape of the container never really made it easy to find the right position to draw water, and at other times the spout was in the wrong location when the can would cooperate. Needless to say, I used the same spout but tapped into the can itself like some others have done, manufacture seam and 4" up form the bottom on the fill side, now my kid-os can use it and I can reduce the "shugs/vapor lock" by opening up the relief valve. My only real concern with this setup is bumping the spout and creating a leak...although this past summer proved it to be a solid design that survive several camping trips and my son(s) carrying the can to and from a water source to re-fill. Kids can often be great at proving a design!!..... I'll post a few pictures later this weekend.

 

[woytovich]

Good point on the vacuum lock. My usage testing thus far has been just that - short testing. I guess I never got to the vacuum lock point... I'll have to give that some thought. I don't want to have to keep reaching up to release the vac with the release valve by hand... Time to look for a one-way valve option maybe...
Mark

 

[VanGo]

Scepter MWC with IGLOO spout.

Mark,

Not the best quality picture, but gives you the idea of the orientation of the can and approx. location of the spout. I'll post more detailed pics later...

 

[woytovich]

I would whack that spout right off of there for sure.

I did another test. With the can laying on its side the water flows from the brass valve for a few seconds then stops with the brass valve fully open and the relief valve closed. If I open the little air relief valve (which is under water inside the can) then water will flow fine. Closing the brass valve but not the relief valve allows a TINY bit of water to drip out of the relief valve, then it stops. I imagine on a day when the can would get warmed up by the sun the expansion would allow more seepage. I don't think it would ever leak enough to drain the can out through the relief valve. Best practice would be to close the relief value when you were done with the water.

I'd like to find a one-way relief valve to replace the one on the can. One with greater flow rate that wouldn't need to be closed by hand.

 

[greentruck]

You might be able to plumb a relief line from the inside of the small vent port to the bottom of the jug. Then when you tip things, there will be a way to get air into the jug?

Not quite sure about this idea, because of the difficulty of gluing stuff to the inside of the plastic jug. Maybe take some stiff tubing that could be bent to help locate this line in the bottom when it's in place, properly oriented so that the end of it will be in the air space when tipped, then slipped into the jug?

Here's what I did for this basic problem. We keep our water jugs across the front of the bed in our M101 CDN. They're easy to fill/refill there without having to get them out of the trailer.

For use, we have a couple of Reliance On Tap water pump/showers. One is on our LPG water heater, so it can sip right out of the jug. The other remains portable to use either for just pumping cold water or to use the heated water for a shower or washing dishes.

I do keep potable water separate and don't use this system for that. Gotta flaky back and shoulder, so I try to minimize lifting, but I do wrestle the can we use for drinking water out of the bed, setting it on one of the wide custom fenders on the M101 that I attached anti-skid step strips to. This makes it easier to tip when the bottom of the jug is prevented from sliding.

So I do have a dog in this fight for a couple of our jugs. What would be ideal is to somehow install a spigot on the top of the jug, but at the opposite end from the cap. That way, the cap could be cracked to give air a chance to get end when the jug is laid on it's side to dispense.

I'm kind of stumped on what the hardware for such a spigot would be and how to install it so that it doesn't get knocked off.

 

[woytovich]

and how to install it so that it doesn't get knocked off.

This is a big part of what I want to get to. During transport I want these as stock as possible (read: bullet-proof). I've seen people use hand pumps mounted to an upright can. I can envision an on-demand electric pump between a sink/faucet and the can with just a pick-up line run down into the can.

What I have now is serviceable but it is not THE PERFECT SOLUTION...

Mark

 

[woytovich]

What about one of these... maybe attached to the inside of the relief valve hole in the "valved" cap?
(to allow for air in but no water out...)

Check Valve (Lee's)

 

[woytovich]

Regarding pumping I recently used a D cell battery powered "shower" to get water out of the can... not TOO bad....:

http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-827b500t-Battery-Powered-Shower/dp/B0009PUT0C?tag=ihco-20

And the Zodi, at $30, seems a viable option too...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002L9A4BI/?tag=ihco-20

"on demand" would be ideal of course....

If you tote around a 12v battery with your trailer/camper:

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/flojet-fl-12-demand-water-pump/14929

or for more gpm:

http://www.adventurerv.net/camper-volt-demand-water-pump-flojet-gpm-p-1276.html

 

[greentruck]

That's the problem with the electric pumps. They're hard to find and sometimes look like questionable quality for something you need to depend on.

The Reliance ones we use has been discontinued. Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters may still have a few like-new ones, but after that you're SOL I suspect. The Reliance seems sturdy enough and has caused no problems.

With it and the LPG water heater, you can do on-demand hot water. But it heats so fast it's a little scary (wouldn't want it around kids or drunk people) and if you've got limited water, too much encouragement to waste. We make the hot water into a bucket, then draw from that, which really helps save water whether for showers or dishes.

I see the Coleman cited is out of stock. The Zodi looks similar to the Reliance as far as the pump (maybe not?), but it runs on 6 volts. We use an extension cable and 12 v power to avoid the hassles of batteries with this.

What would be cool would be to design a neat little package with off-the-shelf components tough enough for the kind of camping MUD members do. Being able to drop the pump right into whatever is being pumped works great.

 

[woytovich]

Ok... a quick trip to the pet store for an aquarium air pump one-way check valve (designed to keep water from flowing back through an air line if the air pump goes off).

I fit it up into the inside of the cap into the relief valve (for testing it push-fit in snugly). I tested and it passes air into the can when the relief valve is open. Unfortunately the spring is too strong... when I put the cap on the can, open the relief screw valve and the brass valve the vacuum in the can is not enough to open the aquarium check valve... arrrggghhh.

I may try to crack open the check valve and cut off a ring of spring to lessen its force...

 

[IBCRUSN]

This may sound goofy but what about using a foot or so of your aquarium hose plugged into the cap as you did with the valve and attach it to a painted foam fishing bobber (or drill a hole through the foam and pull the hose through it) and install the cap. The bobber will float to the top of the tank when you lay it on its side and you can open the vent valve on the cap. It sounds plausible and cheap in my head but it may be worth a try.

 

[woytovich]

That's a good idea. another option is to somehow permanently attach the end of that tube to the "up" side of the inside of the can when it is in "dispense" position.

I've even though about some flush mount vent for the "up" side of the can that could be opened manually when in "dispense" mode.

Part of the issue is also getting more vent air floe so you can get more water flow out of the valve.

And I'm starting to think I'm spending WAY too much time thinking about this...

 

[greentruck]

IBCRUSN,
I'm liking your idea a whole lot. It solves the problem of how to route the inside plumbing, I think. Too cold to mess with this stuff right now, but I may give that a try. The trickiest part is finding the right float. The tubing shouldn't be too big a deal.

 

[woytovich]

The tubing needs to stay flexible even in cold water I would think... or, if it likes to stay in an arc, situated so it wants to be at the "top"...

Maybe, if you are swapping on a "faucet top" like I am you could somehow wire the hose in place (plastic or stainless wire?) so it stays up above the water line.

 

[greentruck]

I got to thinking -- and sometimes that's dangerous

A nice, fat cork would work well for the bobber. It is easy to drill through and then embed a short piece of aluminum or copper tube, then attach the plastic tube to the lower end.

Yep, getting the right tubing length and quality shouldn't be too hard, the stuff I usually need to be less floppy is what I usually end up with when looking for something with less flex, might even have some in the garage. I'm thinking an aquarium or tropical fish store may be able to help me if I don't.

Then all I need is to find a spigot to suit, which the original post pretty much took care of. I may try to find something with a bigger handle for that.

If I like the looks of things, I may just convert my two potable water jugs and not sweat having an unmodded cap for them.

Now the only thing unsolved is mounting the air relief tube to the cap. Shouldn't be too hard, just got to find the right handy to acquire hardware to make it easy for anyone.

Too cold right now for working on such here, but if anyone in warmer climes bashes something together, post up.

 

[woytovich]

One potential problem is what could happen to the hose and bobber when screwing on/off the cap...

I think I am going to stick with what I have for now (unless one of you comes up with something better of course). The worst case is that I need to close the relief valve after using the faucet.

For a more sophisticated camper/trailer solution I am leaning towards a 12v Shurflo or Flojet on-demand water pump with an upright MWC as a source. Later add a propane on-demand hot water heater and I'm livin' in my trailer full time!

Keep the ideas flowing (pun intended)!

Mark

 

[VanGo]

Mark,

Lots of great ideas getting thrown around here and for your specific purpose of making it easy to draw water from the can a pump spout maybe the most practical. I found this link to EQUIPT earlier today and thought of this thread, if you have not seen it, it's worth an investigation:

Water - Jerry Can Water Tank w/ Recessed Spout, 20L | Equipt Expedition Outfitters

It's spendy at $65., but fits the intended need, plus if you look at some of the other front runner water container solutions you may find something that fits the need or inspires you into more creativity.

HTH,

Van

 

[IBCRUSN]

One potential problem is what could happen to the hose and bobber when screwing on/off the cap...

When the tank is empty, nothing. When it's full you just don't fill it to the rim and it'll float as it should. It simple don't over think or engineer it. It won't twist because there is nothing firmly holding the float end.

I don't know about using cork. There is plenty of surface area for bacteria to grow that why I was thinking a painted bobber. As far as tubing silicone tubing is prevalent and won't stiffen in cold or near freezing water.