LX vs LC question

[TeCKis300]

The modding angle is absolutely bunk in my mind. Any vehicle can be taken further and customized whatever way one wishes.

Some of the most modified 200-series began as LX variants.
- Monica, from Canguro Racing
- This beastly 200-series on 37s
- Sleeofroad / Christo's personal rig on 35s (Makes one go hrmmm...when he has knowledge and access to every mod in the book).
- BE Meyers MAWLR

Interestingly, for those that want to run very aggressive tires, it is the LC that is more constrained due to clearance issues with KDSS.

One thing that is absolutely true is that the factory LC suspension is basic and most always requires upgrading. The LX AHC suspension is already up to task for the majority of the population and majority of uses. You may be able to "upgrade" and do one or two specific things better, but nothing will touch its broad competency. Which makes every other suspension a compromise. Said another way, potentially a downgrade.

In my mind, it's no more than a personal preference as to which variant one wants to start with. Fundamentally, they both bring all the goodness that is the 200-series.

 

[bloc]

The modding angle is absolutely bunk in my mind. Any vehicle can be taken further and customized whatever way one wishes.

Some of the most modified 200-series began as LX variants.
- Monica, from Canguro Racing
- This beastly 200-series on 37s
- Sleeofroad / Christo's personal rig on 35s (Makes one go hrmmm...when he has knowledge and access to every mod in the book).
- BE Meyers MAWLR

Interestingly, for those that want to run very aggressive tires, it is the LC that is more constrained due to clearance issues with KDSS.

One thing that is absolutely true is that the factory LC suspension is basic and will almost require upgrading. The LX AHC suspension is already up to task for the majority of the population and majority of uses. You may be able to "upgrade" and do one or two specific things better, but nothing will touch its broad competency. Which makes every other suspension a compromise. Said another way, potentially a downgrade.

In my mind, it's no more than a personal preference as to which variant one wants to start with. Fundamentally, they both bring all the goodness that is the 200-series.

Personal preference: great suspension out of the box that is very versatile and will do what most people need with a simple tire change, OR the ability to actually install suspension that might not be as versatile but can do whatever you set it up for much better.

And I feel like I know you (Teckis) well enough to predict you coming back with AHC being superior to *whatever* suspension.. but the limited factory programming and control parameters can't touch what can be done with custom valving and spring rates on a high-end suspension like Fox 2.5s or 3.0s. IF that's what the owner wants to do, landcruiser is their only 200-series option.

Monica is ****ing awesome but not relevant to this conversation in any way.

 

[TeCKis300]

Personal preference: great suspension out of the box that is very versatile and will do what most people need with a simple tire change, OR the ability to actually install suspension that might not be as versatile but can do whatever you set it up for much better.

And I feel like I know you (Teckis) well enough to predict you coming back with AHC being superior to *whatever* suspension.. but the limited factory programming and control parameters can't touch what can be done with custom valving and spring rates on a high-end suspension like Fox 2.5s or 3.0s. IF that's what the owner wants to do, landcruiser is their only 200-series option.

Monica is f***ing awesome but not relevant to this conversation in any way.

I've got no problem with your thoughts. It's fair and good. Personal preference sure, but objective performance matters here too. If one wants to be critical of AHC, it's only fair to be critical of the base LC suspension, where AHC is clearly far more capable.

My AHC posts is clarification for those that have not owned and driven AHC, assuming what it might or might not be. Until you have owned and used it, you simply won't understand.

Lift if easy. High end damping is easy. Bringing it all together in a system that's well tuned is where the real black magic happens and majority of these supposedly high end coilovers don't even come with basic tuning guides. Relying on end users to bring the magic, who don't have the first clue about suspension tuning... it's an utter BS expectation and will always be a limitation of these "high end" systems no matter how great the hardware is.

AHC consistently brings it all together in a fashion that automatically adapts to generally deliver a high level of performance for varying surfaces, differing loads, and the spectrum of conditions - that will continue to be impossible for static suspensions no matter how shiny that fancy aftermarket part is.

Yet to your point, for a purpose built vehicle like Monica, which started life as an LX570 with AHC suspension, it absolutely makes sense to gut and build a bespoke suspension system that will be better performing for her particular mission.

 

[ceb]

I hadn't been considering the LX much before because of the excess (useless) length and the weird appearance along with the greater price and corresponding higher depreciation, but the AHC makes a pretty compelling case.

So maybe I'm looking for used now. I think the last changes were in 2016, so I might be looking at 2016/17

 

[GordJ]

As someone who had a ‘08 LC and had to add airbags immediately to pull my trailers and had nothing but problems after changing shocks (ending up going back to Toyota shocks because of alignment issues) I have put about 15,000 km’s on my ‘14 LX pulling my trailer to the Arctic Circle and various other places without any add ones at all I would say that the LX is a lot better right out of the box. And all of the other creature comforts have been enjoyed thoroughly once I got used to having bling. I had an old trucker just amazed when the truck “knelt down” at the gas pump. I started to apologize for being a weenie and he said “no, no, no I think that is a fantastic idea because I’ve worn out so many seats sliding in and out of trucks”. We just got back from two+ weeks on Haida Gwaii that involved a couple of 36 km drives down the beach and numerous trips all over the island without a snag.
LX all the way for me.

 

[factsaboutrats]

I've got one of each and I have to say, I like my wife's LX more. Better infotainment(LX has more hard buttons to press, my AC controls are hidden behind a screen), nicer inside, better headlights, power third row. Suspension is cool and useful in the low position. The looks are subjective, but the LX has the "presence" that the LC doesn't, as in "How do you like your Highlander "

 

[coleAK]

I hadn't been considering the LX much before because of the excess (useless) length and the weird appearance along with the greater price and corresponding higher depreciation, but the AHC makes a pretty compelling case.

So maybe I'm looking for used now. I think the last changes were in 2016, so I might be looking at 2016/17

yep, buy a slightly used one and save $30k

 

[04UZJ100]

Personally I'd put the LX570 in the "bulletproof" camp too.

@chittick is on point. Also consider what he said about the joystick. Not the first time I've heard of it being annoying to use, and think about using that for a decade.


One note about "extra electronics". I wouldn't say there's a huge complexity difference now that the LC has added many of the systems LXs have had for years, like the power rear liftgate and front camera. Power folding third row, if you get that.. I guess. But, they do have AHC. This has proven to be a lot more reliable (so far) than what came on the 100-series platform, but then not many people have put 300k miles on them either. One advantage AHC has is the ability to easily change fluid, and this is specified in the maintenance book. KDSS on the landcruiser is much simpler in operation, but it is also a sealed passive system. Technically it doesn't need any maintenance. I LOVE my 2013 landcruiser, but the KDSS is one system I hope I never have to mess with, both from a cost and a special tools standpoint.

Still, if both systems hypothetically went the same distance before significant repair or replacement, I'd give the nudge to KDSS. The cylinders are going to be expensive, but not as expensive as the pump and valve assembly for AHC. And once I have a need I'll find a way to emulate the toyota KDSS pressure/bleed tool.

Hopefully most of us never even need that.. like I said.. very few problems reported so far, and there are some rigs with pretty high mileage.

But, yes, what chittick said about keeping stock vs modding. To date there are no suspension upgrades for an LX other than a tundra long-arm swap, and it is very unlikely anyone will tackle much more in the aftermarket. But then most LX owners don't feel the need because they can hit a button and lift it 2". Which makes them damn capable. Or mess with your sensors and get even more lift. But, if you just know you'll want to tweak it, run desert roads at speed and install high bypass shocks or whatever.. LC is your truck, from that perspective anyway. There are less slider and front/rear bumper options for LX at this point but those will definitely come with time.

AHC can be removed as all LC components directly bolt on the LX sans KDSS. There are even videos on YouTube showing how to disable the constant suspension error when doing so.

 

[Markuson]

General 1.25 cents...because repetitive Q's are just sooooo "rewarding..." (haha)

It's not that the LX is less capable.
It's incredibly capable.
-If you want something out-of-the-box that is ready to wheel and tow with minimal fuss...the LX is great, with advantages for towing in particular (albeit with a lower tow-rating than LC).

But...
... as soon as you start trying to find *multiple CHOICES* for after-market mods such as sliders, front bumpers and lifts according to your specific wants/needs/options...the choices become clearly more limited compared to the LC. Sliders, for example, are a bigger cost and pain because LX side steps are integrated into the lower body panel...meaning more money to buy an LC piece. AHC is integrated into the computer in ways that can mean accepting error codes, or staying within it's parameters.

Those are NOT an indictment against the LX!!
The LX is awesome...but if you want greater flexibility in future modification choices...you would do well to give the LC some tally-marks on your future-mod priority chart.

To the "identity/presence" thing...
Personally, I get a kick out of the "nice Highlander, 4Runner, LandRover, Jeep, and What the HECK is it?" questions.

But to each their own, as always!

 

[ridetime]

General 1.25 cents...because repetitive Q's are just sooooo "rewarding..." (haha)

It's not that the LX is less capable.
It's incredibly capable.
-If you want something out-of-the-box that is ready to wheel and tow with minimal fuss...the LX is great, with advantages for towing in particular (albeit with a lower tow-rating than LC).

But...
... as soon as you start trying to find *multiple CHOICES* for after-market mods such as sliders, front bumpers and lifts according to your specific wants/needs/options...the choices become clearly more limited compared to the LC. Sliders, for example, are a bigger cost and pain because LX side steps are integrated into the lower body panel...meaning more money to buy an LC piece. AHC is integrated into the computer in ways that can mean accepting error codes, or staying within it's parameters.

Those are NOT an indictment against the LX!!
The LX is awesome...but if you want greater flexibility in future modification choices...you would do well to give the LC some tally-marks on your future-mod priority chart.



If ANY of the attributes you list were major priorities for me, I might prefer the LX too.

But...while crawling over obstacles ("crawling is a subjective term, or course)...not one single time has the "look," infotainment, or AC controls EVER flitted through my pea-brain.

As for the "identity/presence" thing...
Personally, I get a kick out of the "nice Highlander, 4Runner, LandRover, Jeep, and What the HECK is it?" questions.

But to each their own, as always!

I like the fact that I can drive around in a metro area of 500,000 people for a week and not see another "Highlander" like mine! The LC is one of the most rare production vehicles that you can buy. I think that is pretty cool.

 

[NYC570]

General 1.25 cents...because repetitive Q's are just sooooo "rewarding..." (haha)

It's not that the LX is less capable.
It's incredibly capable.
-If you want something out-of-the-box that is ready to wheel and tow with minimal fuss...the LX is great, with advantages for towing in particular (albeit with a lower tow-rating than LC).

But...
... as soon as you start trying to find *multiple CHOICES* for after-market mods such as sliders, front bumpers and lifts according to your specific wants/needs/options...the choices become clearly more limited compared to the LC. Sliders, for example, are a bigger cost and pain because LX side steps are integrated into the lower body panel...meaning more money to buy an LC piece. AHC is integrated into the computer in ways that can mean accepting error codes, or staying within it's parameters.

Those are NOT an indictment against the LX!!
The LX is awesome...but if you want greater flexibility in future modification choices...you would do well to give the LC some tally-marks on your future-mod priority chart.

To the "identity/presence" thing...
Personally, I get a kick out of the "nice Highlander, 4Runner, LandRover, Jeep, and What the HECK is it?" questions.

But to each their own, as always!

You don't have to buy LC rocker panels. You can do what it's done when installing bumpers. Just cut the stock sidesteps like a few members have already done, so the price wouldn't be a factor if there were actual sliders for the lx lol. That's the main problem, the lack of aftermarket parts for the lx. I know some parts are in the works, but who knows when they'll be released.

 

[Markuson]

You don't have to buy LC rocker panels. You can do what it's done when installing bumpers. Just cut the stock sidesteps like a few members have already done, so the price wouldn't be a factor if there were actual sliders for the lx lol. That's the main problem, the lack of aftermarket parts for the lx. I know some parts are in the works, but who knows when they'll be released.

Ya...I guess if people wanna cut for sliders rather than bolt on...that's an option.
On the other hand...Metal Tech, Slee, ARB, BudBuilt and others make sliders for the LC without any cutting neded.
12 years in, and still scarce means it's there's a clear difference when trying to "shop" for LX-specific mods.
But again... Not a knock. Just a factor to consider.

 

[coleAK]

General 1.25 cents...because repetitive Q's are just sooooo "rewarding..." (haha)

It's not that the LX is less capable.
It's incredibly capable.
-If you want something out-of-the-box that is ready to wheel and tow with minimal fuss...the LX is great, with advantages for towing in particular (albeit with a lower tow-rating than LC).

But...
... as soon as you start trying to find *multiple CHOICES* for after-market mods such as sliders, front bumpers and lifts according to your specific wants/needs/options...the choices become clearly more limited compared to the LC. Sliders, for example, are a bigger cost and pain because LX side steps are integrated into the lower body panel...meaning more money to buy an LC piece. AHC is integrated into the computer in ways that can mean accepting error codes, or staying within it's parameters.

Those are NOT an indictment against the LX!!
The LX is awesome...but if you want greater flexibility in future modification choices...you would do well to give the LC some tally-marks on your future-mod priority chart.

To the "identity/presence" thing...
Personally, I get a kick out of the "nice Highlander, 4Runner, LandRover, Jeep, and What the HECK is it?" questions.

But to each their own, as always!

Well said.

Haha. I had a 15 min argument with the guy at the auto skills shop on base 2 weeks ago when I went to do tire rotation and oil change. Short version: he wanted me to use the unibody equipped “light weight” frame lift for my LX. I said I needed one of the HD lifts, his reply “why under the L badge it’s a highlander”... I had to show him the “door sticker” for him to believe me how much it weighted. Later when I was about to bring it down I had him come over and look at the frame/drivetrain. His response “uuugh, still looks to much like a highlander to take off road...”.

 

[chittick]

Well said.

Haha. I had a 15 min argument with the guy at the auto skills shop on base 2 weeks ago when I went to do tire rotation and oil change. Short version: he wanted me to use the unibody equipped “light weight” frame lift for my LX. I said I needed one of the HD lifts, his reply “why under the L badge it’s a highlander”... I had to show him the “door sticker” for him to believe me how much it weighted. Later when I was about to bring it down I had him come over and look at the frame/drivetrain. His response “uuugh, still looks to much like a highlander to take off road...”.

I had a funny experience with my neighbor after I got the LX. He politely told me it looked nice but I should've gotten an LC. He then went on to tell me about how his dream was to buy an LC and take it up to Alaska. I said "sounds cool, I'd like to do that one day" to which his response was "Yeah, but the roads up there would eat this candy-ass truck alive. You'd need something much more heavy duty."

I just nodded and let his ignorance flap in the wind. He then zoomed off in his bright red Mercedes E-Class...

 

[Markuson]

Well said.

Haha. I had a 15 min argument with the guy at the auto skills shop on base 2 weeks ago when I went to do tire rotation and oil change. Short version: he wanted me to use the unibody equipped “light weight” frame lift for my LX. I said I needed one of the HD lifts, his reply “why under the L badge it’s a highlander”... I had to show him the “door sticker” for him to believe me how much it weighted. Later when I was about to bring it down I had him come over and look at the frame/drivetrain. His response “uuugh, still looks to much like a highlander to take off road...”.

Wow!!! Has he never looked at a car frame before?!?! The LX & LC frame is beastly by any civilian standard. That’s nuts! Oh well... Haha...

 

[coleAK]

Wow!!! Has he never looked at a car frame before?!?! The LX & LC frame is beastly by any civilian standard. That’s nuts! Oh well... Haha...

Sorry to clairify at that point he was talking about the exterior. He did acknowledge that the frame, axles, drive lines looked beefy.