Low fuel warning and gas tank

[MikeVpdx503]

Hey All, been lurking here a while until I found my rig. Just purchased a 2013 Land Cruiser with 55k miles last week.

First road trip was 1000 miles from Portland to Boise and back. I averaged just over 20 mpg for the trip.

I noticed on the way back the low fuel warning kicked on around 350 miles on the tank. I thought that was a little early and confirmed when I filled up, only needed 18.1 gallons. 6 gallon cushion?!?! Seems excessively conservative. Saw a few prev threads with the same observations.

My question, any info if a larger gas tank (maybe Tundra?) would fit this rig? I couldn't find any specific info and thought I would toss it out to the experts. Thanks!

Cheers

 

[brasskey]

Hey All, been lurking here a while until I found my rig. Just purchased a 2013 Land Cruiser with 55k miles last week.

First road trip was 1000 miles from Portland to Boise and back. I averaged just over 20 mpg for the trip.

I noticed on the way back the low fuel warning kicked on around 350 miles on the tank. I thought that was a little early and confirmed when I filled up, only needed 18.1 gallons. 6 gallon cushion?!?! Seems excessively conservative. Saw a few prev threads with the same observations.

My question, any info if a larger gas tank (maybe Tundra?) would fit this rig? I couldn't find any specific info and thought I would toss it out to the experts. Thanks!

Cheers

Auxiliary Fuel Tanks for 200s

 

[linuxgod]

20 MPG is impressive. Many of us barely see the teens.

The low fuel light is supposed to come on with about 5 gallons left. That's "normal".

No you can't fit a regular aftermarket tank. Ward Harris has a secondary aux tank you can add, but you'll need some skills to do the install as it requires replacing the filler tube and installing a secondary charcoal canister. Also if you go bigger than ~12 gallons you need to relocate your spare

 

[Bendcruiser]

I had the same question when I got my 2015. Apparently the fuel pump needs lots of fuel to be submerged and run cool. Running it way down past the warning could from what I understand decrease the life of the pump due to running hot? I’m no expert but this is what was gathered from my question.

 

[Dan Higgins]

I had the same question when I got my 2015. Apparently the fuel pump needs lots of fuel to be submerged and run cool. Running it way down past the warning could from what I understand decrease the life of the pump due to running hot? I’m no expert but this is what was gathered from my question.

Hmmm. So what good is it to have a tank of 20-some gallons if they don't want you to use the last few? BTW, I noticed something similar last week though it was the "Range" function rather than the low fuel warning. Range according to the LC was 10 more miles when I stopped to fill up. I put 19 gals in the tank. My available range was certainly more than 10 miles!

 

[Blondebaerde]

Guess this was never resolved. I have similar observations to Dan Higgins.

Fuel capacity on my new (to me) '13 LC U.S. is listed as 24.6 gallons. Low fuel light allegedly goes on when down to four gallons remaining. I've not had that happen yet, T+ 500 miles or so.

I'm going by the range indicator computer, as it counts down remaining miles. I've not let it get below 15 miles before a full refill. My first weeks of ownership have been commuting and not much else, a routine thing in terms of time to/from, with just a little variation. Consistent 15 miles per gallon mileage, independent of my question.

QUESTION: On fuel up, with "cruising range = 15 miles" (or so), that fuel gauge is near the E. Really near. But when I refuel, as I did this afternoon with "cruising range = 18 (miles)" it took 18.2 gallons.

You see my dilemma. Clearly several of the below must be true:

a. The fuel range computer is a real pessimist.
b. The fuel gauge is a pessimist on par with the above.

OR

A and B are false: The fuel tank capacity is wrong, it's not 24.6 but closer to 20 gallons! I find this possible, but improbable.

Hypothesis:

• Fuel light hasn't gone on, buttressing idea that I've never gotten to that last c. 4 gallons in the tank.
• Fill up is actually filling 3/4 of a tank (roughly), 24.6/18.2 (74%) though gauge and computer indicate I'm out of capacity (empty), by the numbers one gallon left (or so)! This is implied, not explicitly indicated however.
• Assumption: low fuel light isn't broken after all.
• Both computer and fuel gauge ARE real pessimists.
• Maybe, when gauge is on E and computer fuel range = 0, NOW it's final four gallons. Too, perhaps then the "low fuel" light comes on.

A strange way to run things, but this is my hypothesis.

 

[gaijin]

Guess this was never resolved. I have similar observations to Dan Higgins.

Fuel capacity on my new (to me) '13 LC U.S. is listed as 24.6 gallons. Low fuel light allegedly goes on when down to four gallons remaining. I've not had that happen yet, T+ 500 miles or so.

I'm going by the range indicator computer, as it counts down remaining miles. I've not let it get below 15 miles before a full refill. My first weeks of ownership have been commuting and not much else, a routine thing in terms of time to/from, with just a little variation. Consistent 15 miles per gallon mileage, independent of my question.

QUESTION: On fuel up, with "cruising range = 15 miles" (or so), that fuel gauge is near the E. Really near. But when I refuel, as I did this afternoon with "cruising range = 18 (miles)" it took 18.2 gallons.

You see my dilemma. Clearly several of the below must be true:

a. The fuel range computer is a real pessimist.
b. The fuel gauge is a pessimist on par with the above.

OR

A and B are false: The fuel tank capacity is wrong, it's not 24.6 but closer to 20 gallons! I find this possible, but improbable.

Hypothesis:

• Fuel light hasn't gone on, buttressing idea that I've never gotten to that last c. 4 gallons in the tank.
• Fill up is actually filling 3/4 of a tank (roughly), 24.6/18.2 (74%) though gauge and computer indicate I'm out of capacity (empty), by the numbers one gallon left (or so)! This is implied, not explicitly indicated however.
• Assumption: low fuel light isn't broken after all.
• Both computer and fuel gauge ARE real pessimists.
• Maybe, when gauge is on E and computer fuel range = 0, NOW it's final four gallons. Too, perhaps then the "low fuel" light comes on.

A strange way to run things, but this is my hypothesis.

I don't think the functions of the various gauges are in any doubt.

The Range indicator is way off. Just watch it over the course of a tank on the highway and compare the miles to a GPS. Pretty reasonable at first, but as zero approaches, the numbers become less and less reliable. My experience has been consistently that the range shows 0 or very close to it about 15-20 miles before the low fuel warning light comes on.

Low indicator is very reliable. When it goes off, I know I have 4 gallons left.

Both Range indicator and gauge can be hard to read accurately - low fuel light is the one that's always spot on.

Tank capacity is accurate at 24.5 gal. (93 L, 20.4 Imp.gal) .

HTH

 

[Markuson]

I can personally assure you of two things:

1. Totally normal...and may trigger the light with as much as 5 gallons in tank.

2. I have literally (& intentionally) run it aooo close to empty that I have actually pumped slightly MORE than 24.6 gallons into the tank. So...capacity is there...and yes. It is extremely pessimistic.

On the other hand...when driving some stretches of highways, there are spans of far more miles than 4-5 gallons worth without fuel stops. So...if you are heavily built (11MPG) the super-early warning starts to make sense.

 

[bloc]

The range function averages your recent driving to calculate mpg, then does the math for the fuel it thinks is remaining.
Toyota isn’t going to be held responsible by people that plan to run it down to zero every tank, then happen to drive the s*** out of it those last few miles and it throwing off the recent fuel efficiency and calculations, and run it out of fuel when there were supposed to be 10 miles left.

Plus, these are premium off-road capable vehicles. Off-road use gets figured heavily into how they are designed. Ever calculated your mileage when doing trails in 4low?

They leave a big cushion simply to avoid people running out of fuel, in typical conservative toyota fashion, because inevitably some of us are going to push the envelope.

 

[TeCKis300]

I once did a test to run the main tank dry - 500 Mile Range and Tank to Empty Test

Calculations indicate I was able to use 4.09 gallons after the low fuel light came on.

With 4.09 gallons reserve:
Best case for a stock vehicle on the highway @18mpg = 72 miles.
Worst case I've had towing/headwind/hill @8mpg = 32 miles.

The pessimistic fuel gauges on the 200-series is a conscious change by Toyota. Which is too bad as it gives an even worse perception of bad fuel efficiency with the limited range. It does give a better safety margin for laden use. My previous 100-series had the same size gas tank and it was calibrated much more inline with what is typical.

 

[Blondebaerde]

I assumed some of you fellas had this figured out, and that Toyota was being very pessimistic both with the 'Cruising Range' indicator and fuel gauge. So far, I've been commute and city miles. I'll just run it past Cruising Range = 0 next time, to see that low fuel light and know what that's all about. It would be near-impossible to become 'stranded' on I-405 corridor in Seattle, with fuel at many if not most exits in the urbanized environment between my home and Renton, WA. Good to know these things before I actually go off the beaten path, one of these days.

 

[Whiskerz]

I see everyone has seen what I have seen. I have squeezed about 22 gallons in the thing once.

 

[tbisaacs]

I assumed some of you fellas had this figured out, and that Toyota was being very pessimistic both with the 'Cruising Range' indicator and fuel gauge. So far, I've been commute and city miles. I'll just run it past Cruising Range = 0 next time, to see that low fuel light and know what that's all about. It would be near-impossible to become 'stranded' on I-405 corridor in Seattle, with fuel at many if not most exits in the urbanized environment between my home and Renton, WA. Good to know these things before I actually go off the beaten path, one of these days.

East Renton highlands checking in

 

[blatant]

Wish I got anywhere close to what some of you are getting when the light comes on. 280mi, lights on.

 

[linuxgod]

The tank is 24.6 gallons. You might be able to squeeze more in if it's cold (fuel expands when warm), and i doubt the 24.6 gallons includes the fuel lines.

I put in 23.9 last summer driving across Texas and Oklahoma. Snapped this at night... I went by 3 towns which didn't have gas stations and was wondering if I'd actually run out of fuel before I found a town that did. Trust me, the needle can drop below "E" and the truck still drives, though I suspect it's hard on the fuel pump since typically they need to be submerged in the fuel to help stay cool

 

[bloc]

Even with a half gallon of fuel the pump is probably still submerged.

Most modern vehicles put the pump in a small bucket-shaped module that has the fuel line returns and/or fresh fuel pumped into it. This effectively keeps the pump submerged and a lot less likely to entrain air as the tank gets low.

The fuel pump module part number for a 2013 200 is 77020-60342

As fuel tank level drops the fuel remaining in the tank does get warmer.. potentially a lot. It has gone into the pressure regulator and back a bunch of times and there is much less of a volume of fuel in the tank to act as a heat sink. But it is still cool enough to conduct heat away from the fuel pump and I wouldn't consider running it low once in a while a bad thing at all. Every tank? not a great idea.

 

[lenny6969]

Have owned my HE since February and just rolled the first 5k. Loved every mile so far. Still amazed by the capabilities and comfort. Gas light comes on around 280 mls every time. Shows 10-20 miles remaining but when I fill up its only averaging 18-19 gallons. Am I reading I could safely drive another 30-40 miles once the indicator reads zero and the needle drops below E ? Tried multiple gas stations and always the same fill of 18-19 gallons. I’m averaging around 15 mpg nearly all have been hwy miles. Hard to trust I would have another 4 gallons in the tank when gauge shows E What’s the safe play to avoid going to the pump so often?

 

[gaijin]

Have owned my HE since February and just rolled the first 5k. Loved every mile so far. Still amazed by the capabilities and comfort. Gas light comes on around 280 mls every time. Shows 10-20 miles remaining but when I fill up its only averaging 18-19 gallons. Am I reading I could safely drive another 30-40 miles once the indicator reads zero and the needle drops below E ? Tried multiple gas stations and always the same fill of 18-19 gallons. I’m averaging around 15 mpg nearly all have been hwy miles. Hard to trust I would have another 4 gallons in the tank when gauge shows E What’s the safe play to avoid going to the pump so often?

Did you read this thread?

 

[lenny6969]

I posted a pretty detailed answer in post 8 of this very thread (among posts by others). Have a look.

Thanks for the help. I did read the thread. Hard to understand why it would be that far off. Good to know

 

[Markuson]

Thanks for the help. I did read the thread. Hard to understand why it would be that far off. Good to know

It’s not that it’s far off... if you mean like an error. It’s not an error.
It’s that Toyota decided to create an *extremely* conservative warning system.

I don’t like it either. But it’s operating as designed...for better or worse.