lj78 13bt Failed swap, need advice (1 Viewer)

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I was hoping he would go with the 13BT. He already owns it and its installed (sort of). But one of the problems japanese diesels have in the us , is the gearing in the diffs. Even the big sixes are going to be doing close to 3000 at 120kph/75mph.
 
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I was hoping he would go with the 13BT. He already owns it and its installed (sort of). But one of the problems japanese diesels have in the us , is the gearing in the diffs. Even the big sixes are going to be doing close to 3000 at 120kph/75mph.

Not an issue for me. I never take mine above 60 mph. I'm quite content to puddle along in the slow lane
 

FJBen

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I’m 2350 rpms at 65 with a 13bt/H55f/4.11/H55f And it seems happy all day there. 3k doesn’t seem happy to me but people on here say the flog em all the time a that so who knows?
 

GTSSportCoupe

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I was hoping he would go with the 13BT. He already owns it and its installed (sort of). But one of the problems japanese diesels have in the us , is the gearing in the diffs. Even the big sixes are going to be doing close to 3000 at 120kph/75mph.

I like this problem. No re-gearing needed for bigger tires. My 4.88 diffs are perfect with 35" tires.
 
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I know this is going to be a contentious thread, because I'm about to speak some truth about a shop owned by a beloved and prolific member of the forum, but it is what it is. I'm going to commit up front to not getting into a flamewar. That isn't why I'm here. I need some solid advice on how to push forward with my rig (which is currently dead with no compression in the front-cylinder), and I'm going to lay out my situation and name names because honestly it feels like a sick joke to worry about protecting people's feelings at this point (unlike several other posts I made, trying to walk the tightrope of diagnosing my rig in one hand while safeguarding Steve's reputation in my other.)

Anyway, to make a very long story shorter, a few years ago, I went to Land Cruisers Direct, to swap out the 2lte in my lj78 with something that wouldn't overheat and explode. We'd been running with a replaced/improved head, wide-open exhaust, and keeping a close eye on the egt-meter. Wife and I had a very fun overland tour of the US with a rooftent, and fell deeply in love with the truck, but it was dangerously slow on eg.. two lane highways in the high-desert of Wyoming. We told LandCruisers Direct we wanted more power, but we wanted to stay toyota/diesel. We eventually settled on a 13-bt swap.

The initial swap cost over 17 thousand dollars and took over a year, and the truck came out not running right. The main problem was that it idled very rough in the 800-1000 rpm range. The problem was apparent to us on the initial drive home, but we were anxious to have our truck back so we drove it home and did some research in here to see if we could figure the problem out ourselves. Trying the normal 70-series fixes for air-in-the-fuel-line related problems didn't help, so we took it to an LC specialist nearby (Mike Daja), and eventually gave up and drove the truck 700 miles back to LandCruisers Direct. I say "main" problem because there were many others. For example, the crank-pully and main drive pully were warped, the harmonic stabilizer wobbled visibly when running and there is what looks like welding-slag in the belt-slot of the main drive pully. The AC belt was rubbing against the drive belt when we first got the truck back, coating the inside of the engine bay with burnt belt-rubber. The Spal electrical fan, necessitated by the swap, kept blowing fuses and shorting relays, probably because the heat-sender had been over-tweaked into the side of the engine block, cracking its enclosure. Also the mechanical voltage regulator wouldn't charge the battery reliably. I replaced it with an electronic version, and fixed many other problems with the help of various mud threads and advice, but I was never able to get it idling correctly. There were times the problem wasn't as bad, but it was never **Right**.

LandCruisers Direct kept the truck for 3+ months and drove it back to Texas for us, but within a week it was idling rough again. Total time in shop 1 year 4 months. I'll also mention that every other mechanic who pops the hood of this truck physically winces at the sight of the swap. Huge, taped-off bundles of the original lj78 wiring harness that didn't meet up to the 13bt hang loosely in the engine bay. Too-long vacuum hoses looping around, resting against hot engine block, sometimes not connecting to anything. To say nothing of seal replacements, the engine hadn't even been cleaned up, scrubbed down, or de-greased when it had been on the pallet. The ~2" hoses connecting the air-intake components are obviously original to the previous truck, and cracking with age. One-off unprotected 18-gauge wires run here and there, connecting to sensors and relays like the electric radiator fan relay, temp-senders and the A/C compressor.

I'd read several threads about the benefits of the Italian Tune-up, with respect to direct-injected diesel engines like the 13bt, so despite our discomfort around the idle problem, we tried to take a short road-trip with the truck, heat-saturating it, but keeping the egt's below 950 as always. We had less than 4k miles on the swap when we started. The engine blew less than 1k miles later. Completely losing compression in the forward-most cylinder. We towed it to a uhaul, threw it on a carrier and limped it back home. In hindsight I believe the 13bt was installed with an intermittent compression problem (LCD claimed to have performed a compression test initially).

I'll also mention, communicating with LandCruisers Direct during the swap was a further exercise in frustration. Like I said we were 700 miles away, so not being able to visit, I emailed regularly, and phoned when that didn't work, but trying not to make a nuisance of myself. Steve seemed invariably to be somewhere else (utah, california, wyoming, narnia, etc...), at a show, preparing for a show, working on something else, somewhere else. I'm pretty sure the actual work of the swap was performed by the other mechanic in the shop for whom we had no phone number or email address.

This meant we never really had any pictures or first-hand updates during the swap, but rather an irregular series of second-hand descriptions of work being performed, or problems being worked around, and always the estimate was that they were a few weeks, or a month at most away from completion. In the entire year the truck initially spent in the shop we got a single cell-phone photo of a 13-bt engine sitting in our truck, attached to an email suddenly announcing that the truck was ready for pickup.

I know reading those paragraphs is going to inspire some of you to recommend legal-related courses of action, and I feel you trust me, but again, I'm not really interested in arguing or lawsuits. It's been so long and I really just want my truck back. To that end I'm trying to plan and save up for yet another swap, and trying to figure out what comes next. Given my experience thus far, I'm thinking about going to a gasoline engine with highway power and readily available parts in the US, probably a single-turbo 2jz. I know many of you have had swaps performed, and many of you run shops that perform swaps. I'd like to do a little pricing diligence and discuss some options with a few different shops this time around, and I'd also like to hear some technical opinions about the 2jz/lj78 combo, which is evidently a bolt-in option. I've read the available threads on the combo, which are sparse. I'm not really worried about killing myself or destroying trail with the overabundance of power -- I'm not that kind of a driver. The truck will be used for long-distance highway hauls between Montana and Texas multiple times per year in all kinds of weather, with a good deal of non-recreational off-roading in both of those locations.

So mud..
  1. Who should I be talking to?
  2. Is there a better toyota gas engine option to balance performance and reliability in an lj78? (also interested to hear some real world 2jz gas-mileage experience)
Thanks in advance
-pradoblivious
If you dont mind me suggesting .. in the philippines and thailand , some lj78s use the lc200 diesel engines 1vd.t . Super savings on diesel and has more then enought torque 600nm ... if straight 6 like 1hd.t or 2fz 3fz engines , you will have issues in engine bay . V8 gas maybe 1uz 2uz engines is like a 13bt except a bit wider . No problem to lj78s ... thanks
 

GTSSportCoupe

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If you dont mind me suggesting .. in the philippines and thailand , some lj78s use the lc200 diesel engines 1vd.t . Super savings on diesel and has more then enought torque 600nm ... if straight 6 like 1hd.t or 2fz 3fz engines , you will have issues in engine bay . V8 gas maybe 1uz 2uz engines is like a 13bt except a bit wider . No problem to lj78s ... thanks

I'd be very interested to see a picture of a LJ78 with 1VDFTV (from LC200)!! Never seen that swap before. Have picture?
 
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I'd be very interested to see a picture of a LJ78 with 1VDFTV (from LC200)!! Never seen that swap before. Have picture?
Seen 4 . Its in thailand .. rodzing thailand even has ln106 using 2uz engines ... lots of engines in thailand ... 1kd.t 2kd.t 1kz.t 1hd.t 1vd.t ... i have now a 2017 lc200 with 1vd.t . Measurred all the width size etc ... would clear lj78 engine bay .
 
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Seen 4 . Its in thailand .. rodzing thailand even has ln106 using 2uz engines ... lots of engines in thailand ... 1kd.t 2kd.t 1kz.t 1hd.t 1vd.t ... i have now a 2017 lc200 with 1vd.t . Measurred all the width size etc ... would clear lj78 engine bay .
If i ever build another lj78 after this current lj78 with a 2L.te . I will use a v.8 1vd.t ... solve all the issues ... the 2016 76 series in dubai all run this 1vd.t engine . Check it out ....these 2016 vdj78 are same to lj78 body with face lift ....
I'd be very interested to see a picture of a LJ78 with 1VDFTV (from LC200)!! Never seen that swap before. Have picture?

Screenshot_20210124-104116_Chrome.jpg
 
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They are not LJ78, they are VDJ78/79.The v8 will not fit in any narrow bodied 70m series.
We did a lj78 , with 1hd.t . Went offroad , first soft mud .. total sinking effect . We pulled out the motor , replaced with a 1kz.t , way too low powered to do heavy offroad , but city drive and hiways its way better then a 2Lte . Vdj78 and lj78 , i measured both . The lj78 and vdj 78 was only 1and 3/4 difference . Engine still has 3 inch clearence , but i myself have not installed an actual 1vd.t to a lj78 . I will look at thailand friend if i can get some pictures ... and forward to u . Thanks
 
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3k doesn’t seem happy to me but people on here say the flog em all the time a that so who knows?
Good diesels can easily do 500000 miles or more, but running them at 3000 for long periods kills the bearings and rings. In Europe they make diesels that can run at 4000 rpm for their autobahns, but B diesels are from the 1970s.
Ive seen lots of older 4 cyl and 6cyl diesels dead at low miles because the owners cant accept they are slow and push them too hard.
My father was a diesel mechanic in the army. He always said diesels can pull a heavy load all day, but over revving them is what kills them. This is why many large diesels have rev limiters
Old school diesels reach their max torque early, once you go much past that, you are killing your engine and wasting fuel. They have 4 times the compression and much heavier parts flying around. Heavy engine parts are the antithesis of a high rpm engine
 
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I will look at thailand friend if i can get some pictures ... and forward to u . Thanks
No need, it all been discussed before. Its the chassis that needs the extra width to fit the V8 . You can get them in on a narrow chassis but the engine sticks out of the bonnet. Toyota wouldn't have widened the chassis 4 inches in the engine bay if they didn't need to.
 
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Since it's being talked about I might as well bring it up here. I normally shift my 1HZ at 2,000 to 2,200 rams, but cruise on the highway at 2,600-2,800 rpms. It doesn't seem strained but don't want to be over reving it if it is not recommend to cruise at that rpm.
 
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Since it's being talked about I might as well bring it up here. I normally shift my 1HZ at 2,000 to 2,200 rams, but cruise on the highway at 2,600-2,800 rpms. It doesn't seem strained but don't want to be over reving it if it is not recommend to cruise at that rpm.

It will last forever like that. 2800 rpms is about my favourite rpm for a 1HZ on a road trip. A few times I have gone close to 3000rpm, I have noticed oil being sucked up into the air intake. Ive always taken that as a sign Ive reached its limit.
But you could tow 3 x its weight all day providing you had the brakes to stop it.
 
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It will last forever like that. 2800 rpms is about my favourite rpm for a 1HZ on a road trip. A few times I have gone close to 3000rpm, I have noticed oil being sucked up into the air intake. Ive always taken that as a sign Ive reached its limit.
But you could tow 3 x its weight all day providing you had the brakes to stop it.
Thanks for the response, I value your advice since you have had a few 1HZs and have been posting tech for as long as I've been here. 👍
 
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Good advice. The 13BT is a great engine, but imo not an interstate 75+ Engine. If you are wanting that, then a 2UZ or something else that likes the revs. Mine seems fine at 65, 70 sounds like it’s working more and 75 feels pushing it with 33’s.
mom at 2350rpms at 65mph.

however, you can get overdrive gears in your transfer case along with better low range to drop those RPMs down on the highway
My BJ74 does 70 all day, seems to be happy at 75 as well although I've noticed that 70 seems to be the 20ish mpg fuel economy limit. I've got some 35sx10.50s waiting to be strapped on, and some 3:1 t case gears to make the off roadies mo' betta. I'll bet you she Cruises fine at 75 when I'm done and still clocks about 20mpg.
 
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@pradoblivious I've been daily driving and getting my 13B-T powered rig ready for the big time for the last couple of years. I recently did a 1000 miles road trip in it. It seems to do just fine! Slow, but not dangerously so, unless you're pulling steep grades it cruises just fine. On the passes at altitude I've just learned to embrace 3rd gears and let it eat, if people think I'm going to slow go around me, f*** em my truck is cooler than yours... I've got factory 4.10s and 33's currently (soon to be 35s as mentioned above).

I will say that if I was to choose a motor, it wouldn't be this one, but it runs great and came in a cable locked 5 speed truck with low miles and all the good stuff so I went with it. I have come to love it for it's simplicity and smoke belching, uncouth glory. Kinda like a a baby Cummins that knows how to hold a fork properly. Since you've already got it in there, honestly I would clean up the swap and rebuild the motor. These are notoriously simple, reliable motors. The only downside is parts availability, although mine has proven to be pretty bulletproof for a 33 year old motor, so it hasn't been an issue. I do a 17 mile commute to work every day with it and it's a lot of fun. I'd just roll with it since you're not looking for power. If you rebuild, I'd throw some head studs at it and put an upgraded turbo for faster spooling, a boost controller and an intercooler so you can really dial things in and get a little power. It should motivate the truck just fine and return decent fuel economy.

If I were to go with gas, I'd drop the coin to do a modern LS swap. A Toyota 1UZ/2UZ swap is cool, but it's not a lot of power for the amount of work. LS is easy to get, super powerful and will return fuel economy in the high teens, maybe even the low 20s on the highway. Also horsepower is fun :)

Either way good luck!
 
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I’m 2350 rpms at 65 with a 13bt/H55f/4.11/H55f And it seems happy all day there. 3k doesn’t seem happy to me but people on here say the flog em all the time a that so who knows?
I try to take it easy on mine because it's a dumb, old motor but honestly it seems to just does whatever I ask without complaining. I don't have my EGT gauges installed yet so I may find surface of the sun temperatures going on in manifold which might change my approach when climbing grades on the highway.
 

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