Lift options (1 Viewer)

[atomicshawn]

last ones

 

[atomicshawn]

I know I'm capitolizing a bit too much on this thread, but I wanted to mention how slick the Slee lift kit is, it has everything you need, and is super easy to install. Ok, I'll shut up now.

 

[Nay]

I think you should do a bunch of stuff pretty much nobody else does. Just sayin'

 

[89toyota]

Great Pics Atomic!!! that rig looks sick!! I do want to keep this thread focused on 4" Lift options.... but how do you like the 4:56s... i was thinking going with those myself but many people suggest going with 4:88... whats your opinion...

back to the lifts... your rigs height is exactly what im looking for... and being that I dont have a clue as to what kind of terrain i will encounter, i fig the 4" will take care of me well.

Slee offers two 4" lifts. the bolt on, and the NON bolt on, which one did you go with?

 

[TXBruiser]

Sorry if that 89Toyota post was confusing... I am 89Toyota, or i WAS:whoops: used to have a old 22re pickup, but now that I got the Cruiser, i wanted to start fresh. or its because i still hate myself for selling the old yota . the only issue i have with the Slee is the price... I got into this project knowing all the cost, but now that ive got the truck, suddenly theres soo many more things I want, but didnt include into the budget... with that said, I by no means will go cheap on a lift, because all the extras dont mean if i cant get onto the trail.

how do yall feel about MAF 4" lift with OME shocks?

 

[TXBruiser]

NAY: awesome paint job!!!! and i like the stinger too, I can see that your "stuff pretty much no one else has done" is something you take to heart!!! seriously your rig looks tight.

 

[atomicshawn]

NAY's truck is just plain cool.

how do you like the 4:56s... i was thinking going with those myself but many people suggest going with 4:88... whats your opinion...

Slee offers two 4" lifts. the bolt on, and the NON bolt on, which one did you go with?

When I was trying to decide gearing, I remember determining my crawl ratio w/4.56's vs 4.88's on 315s. Then factored in reports of high engine rpm, speed limitations, and possible efficiency issues with the 4.88s. It seemed to me the costs of the 4.88's outweighed the benefits and went w/the 56's. I then mitigated the higher diff gears by reducing the Tcase low range gears. I am very pleased w/the 56's, but maybe if I would have gone with 88's I would be just as happy. It seems there are a lot of opinions out there, and my experience is limited to what I've done to mine.

Sounds like you are ambivalent about going with MAF or Slee just like I was. I ended up going w/the Slee bolt on. I actually ordered the MAF initially, then after talking to Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters I changed my mind and canceled the order. (I bought a bunch of other stuff from MAF so I don’t feel too bad). Kurt felt the front axle clearance issues w/the Slee control arm brackets was less of a problem than the lower control arm drop brackets on the MAF that would be more susceptible to hanging up when dropping off obstacles. He also testified to the quality of the Slee product. It seems Kurt has clocked a lot of hours off road so I trust his opinion, and I don’t think his advice was biased because he wasn’t in a position to make money on the deal, in fact, he sells lift kits and he didn’t try to talk me into his.

Which brings me to my next point; my best advice is to talk to professionals who do this for a living. Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters is a great resource. I also talked to Christo Slee about gearing and tire size. I'm thinking these guys have seen it all and can give you a much more informed opinion than people like me.

Fun stuff. Good luck!

 

[Nay]

NAY: awesome paint job!!!! and i like the stinger too, I can see that your "stuff pretty much no one else has done" is something you take to heart!!! seriously your rig looks tight.

Thanks The "paint" is Durabak (bedliner), which is by far one of my favorite mods.

I would get a complete kit if that makes sense (more on this below). The MAF is just a mix of OME coils and I would much rather have Slee's coils at a 4" lift height. Shocks are the same (both are OME). The two questions I think you should always ask are "how do I think/feel about design in regards to added weight?" and "how much does clearance mean to me in terms of offroad usage?"

I say this because 80 series suspensions are generally designed with the premise that you are going to add a lot of weight to the rear of the rig - meaning a heavy bumper, tire carrier, perhaps jerry cans, etc. As you can see from AtomicShawn's rig, he has this extra weight and his truck sits pretty level. Spring rates should be pretty well optimized and the stiff valving of the OME shocks is good for this consistent load.

If you look at my rig, you'll see the tube bumpers, frame trimming, and a serious focus on no added weight. I'm not saying one is better than the other, simply that I have designed for my needs with a pretty different output.

Living at high altitude and having built a previous rig with an inline six, I know how badly power suffers under a lot of added weight along with elevation induced power loss, and I have four kids and two big dogs, so I need to go from just me to around 600 lbs of kid, fur, and gear princess: adds no weight ). I also wheel my 80 pretty hard and clearance and weight issues are very important to me. I am careful not to destroy it in the process and it serves as a family mountain rig and is my commuter when I need to commute (about once every two weeks).

My goal was to have the approach and departure angles of a much taller lift without introducing the other issues of that higher lift height (suspension geometry, center of gravity, etc.). Sticking with a 4" lift has been a very good balance - I still suffer breakover angle clearance issues in big rock gardens, but that is part of the compromise. I run 37's on this lift height instead of 35's to further improve clearance and breakover again without adding suspension lift. 5.29 gears make perfect sense because I don't drive my truck with these tires over 75 mph and typically cruise at around 70 mph. Fuel economy has improved over 33" tires and stock gears with my usage, and 5.29's are so sweet in crawling (I can't imagine having less gearing).

I don't believe you can currently acquire my suspension due to production limitations, but I will explain why I chose it. The FOR Gen II coils have a progressive rate spring with "dead winds" at the top of the coils. This allows a near stock ride completely unloaded (along with the softer valved shocks) without any change in ride feel under load (to my load points).

There is no "stinkbug", and the dead winds provide the necessary coil length for full articulation when rock crawling while retaining a higher level underlying spring rate (higher spring rate coils are shorter, and when you want to add or space down travel for rock crawling and larger tires a shorter coil is not want you want as too much of your travel may be outside of the sweet spot of the coil or even completely unsprung - I see this is as the true design issue in 80 series suspensions, particularly those of "expedition weight"). The FOR Gen II rear coils are not ideally suited for a lot of added rear weight - at some point you simply compress the coil past the progressive sweet spot and lose the benefit entirely and are adding coil spacers to compensate.

The other benefit for me is the near 50/50 up/down travel bias - since I am not overlanding at high speeds on expeditions, having a typical OME bias to up travel is a poor design choice as this is exactly what you don't want in order to rock crawl with maximum tire size.

Hopefully this will help you start with design goals based on your intended usage and then select either a full suspension or the necessary individual components to meet those needs. No one suspension is best for everybody and the suspension you choose will function as it was designed to function. Whether or not that function fits your design goals and requirements is worth careful consideration, because you are about to spend a lot of money and it is worth doing it right for you the first time.

 

[Jacket]

It would be a great help if any guys with 4" lifts could post what they went with for their trucks and maybe a few pics. It seems like there are quite a bit of choices and setups and it would be a real help to a few of us.

Slee 4" with 315/75 tires. I had already been down the OME 2.5" lift with my last truck, and didn't want to dick around with different springs and other suspension parts as my needs changed. You pay a lot up front for the Slee package, but it has everything you need to have a complete solution that can allow you to grow and change over time with minimal intervention.

This is good choice if your plans are 35" or larger tires. If you'll stick with 33's, the 4" lift is overkill.

 

[TXBruiser]

Yea, im def going 35" but I dont know if i want to drop the $$$ for the slee lift. I am still looking into all options, and if Money was not a player then the Slee lift would be the way I would go but it unfortunatly is. at this point i might have to frankinstien it lol.

 

[PNGCRUISER]

a few more...

I know that last pic, Kane Creek right?

 

[atomicshawn]

I know that last pic, Kane Creek right?

Yes indeed, it was Cane Creek.
...I was just thinking... I remember before I lifted mine I spent a lot of time looking at pictures of 80s with different lift sizes, and the 4” w/315 seemed pretty big to me, and I remember looking at Nay’s set up and it just seemed HUGE! And now… 4” & 315 seems normal, stock trucks look strange and handicapped, and Nay’s truck no longer looks morbid. In fact now I find Nay’s set up compelling and catch myself fantasizing about 37s and 4.88s. I guess it becomes a progressive thing just like any other addiction.

When I was trying to decide, what I was most concerned about was not so much aesthetics, but functionality. Based on the research I did, and I did a lot, I still think we made the right choice for us. Although I was actually quite surprised at how stable the truck felt and how well it handled after installing the lift and tires, I can still feel a significant center of gravity change. Besides frequent weekend trips, several times a year we head out for a week or more at a time. We have 4 kids and a dog, and we have to carry enough **** to keep us alive so a lot of gear goes on top. My concern would be that if we went bigger it would decrease stability, especially when loaded. But again, this is my assumption based on what I have read and what others have told me. Maybe it would feel the same if we went the next size up.

The other issue that I wonder about is articulation. Not that we built this thing to be a rock crawler, but it has been nice not having any rubbing issues like units I have owned in the past. Its like the thing was made for 315s. Maybe Nay could post some pics of his set up articulated and school us on 80s and 37” tire accommodation. I remember seeing some video footage of that same photo Nay posted of him on the rocks, I can’t remember if it showed his truck flexed, and I cant remember where I saw it.

 

[atomicshawn]

I meant er Kane Kreek... or whatever...

 

[ATXFZJ80]

Jacket- sorry to be off topic but is that a 4x4 labs rear bumper in your picture?

 

[Nay]

Yes indeed, it was Cane Creek.
...I was just thinking... I remember before I lifted mine I spent a lot of time looking at pictures of 80s with different lift sizes, and the 4” w/315 seemed pretty big to me, and I remember looking at Nay’s set up and it just seemed HUGE! And now… 4” & 315 seems normal, stock trucks look strange and handicapped, and Nay’s truck no longer looks morbid. In fact now I find Nay’s set up compelling and catch myself fantasizing about 37s and 4.88s. I guess it becomes a progressive thing just like any other addiction.

When I was trying to decide, what I was most concerned about was not so much aesthetics, but functionality. Based on the research I did, and I did a lot, I still think we made the right choice for us. Although I was actually quite surprised at how stable the truck felt and how well it handled after installing the lift and tires, I can still feel a significant center of gravity change. Besides frequent weekend trips, several times a year we head out for a week or more at a time. We have 4 kids and a dog, and we have to carry enough **** to keep us alive so a lot of gear goes on top. My concern would be that if we went bigger it would decrease stability, especially when loaded. But again, this is my assumption based on what I have read and what others have told me. Maybe it would feel the same if we went the next size up.

The other issue that I wonder about is articulation. Not that we built this thing to be a rock crawler, but it has been nice not having any rubbing issues like units I have owned in the past. Its like the thing was made for 315s. Maybe Nay could post some pics of his set up articulated and school us on 80s and 37” tire accommodation. I remember seeing some video footage of that same photo Nay posted of him on the rocks, I can’t remember if it showed his truck flexed, and I cant remember where I saw it.

My tires are tiny . Seriously, it is so hard to get tires to really look big on these trucks and I think the 37's balance it perfectly - I'd want more tire if I had more lift as the 37's would start looking smallish.

There is no real compelling difference between 35's and 37's in terms of fitment. They are typically about the same weight as the 35 in the same size (3-5 lbs heavier) and they fit in the wheel wells without rubbing as long as you have the whole thing "tuned" in terms of wheel spacers (backspacing) and suspension travel.

So there is no reason to increase suspension lift to make the jump in tire size from 35 to 37, and as far as I am concerned, you shouldn't. Keep the lift as low as you can for the wheeling you do and maximize tire size. Unless of course you are an overlander where you should have very different design goals.

Here are some fitment pics (Trxus are spec'd at 37.3" are they are definitely big for this size), and a video link that shows about as fully flexed as you can get an 80 front to rear with stock suspension links - particularly at about 3:08 into the video.

Old Chinamans Gulch - The Rock Pile 11-22-09 on Vimeo

I think this vid shows fitment well despite the lack of raw flex, particularly at 1:36, which may be my favorite suspension shot because it shows the entire system working perfectly.

Spring Creek Rock Garden 06-20-10 on Vimeo

My center of hub to fender (no flares) measurement is 24" with some bending of the tape measure around the tires. So 4" of lift or a bit less. 10" travel shocks, approx 5" up travel and 5" down travel. The last 1/2" of shock travel is bumpstop protected.

Hope that helps.

 

[TexasJack]

TXBruiser,

Here is yet another approach to getting your lift. Nay does SERIOUS rock crawling and is apparently pretty good at it. I have seem many pictures of him doing very advanced stuff I have not begun to try (and may not ever). His lift and his entire build-out reflects what he likes to do and it serves him well. AtomicShawn on the other hand appears to do some rock crawling but also does alot of expedition type wheeling which is much closer to what I do. I use my truck as a hunting/camping vehicle. That means our vehicles will be heavier than Nay's. With that said, you'd be shocked the advanced level of wheeling you could do in Shawn's truck. My build is similar to Shawn's because my type of wheeling is probably closer to what he does than what Nay does. If you want a lift like Shawn's, here is another avenue to take.

I wanted to get my truck built in about a year and I wanted to get at least a 3.5 inch lift in place so I could get my gears replaced with 4.88s and ARB air lockers installed. I also wanted 315s. I went with the IPOR 3.5 inch lift. It allowed me to get the J springs and L shocks on my truck to get it to the height I was looking for. It also provided many of the items you'll find in Slee's lift....in fact it is exactly the same equipment Slee offers in his 4 inch lift because Slee makes it. I got the lift on my truck for about $1000 which was less than half of what I would have paid for Slee's lift.

Keep in mind that I still plan to go back to Slee and finish my lift by purchasing his springs and the rest of the 4 inch lift components. After you get the IPOR lift on your truck, you'll begin to see why Slee includes everything else in his lift kit and I do want these other items on my truck.

Here is what I got in the IPOR lift: OME863J HD Rear Springs; OME860J HD Front Springs; OME N74L Shocks, OME73L Shocks; OMECA77B Caster Kit; OMESD24 Damper LC 80; Rear Swaybar Brackets; Front Swaybar Blocks; 2 Inch Rear Bumpstop Blocks; 2 inch Front Bumpstop Pucks; 4 extended brakelines (+ 4 inch)

Here is what I still need to get from Slee to finish the 4 inch lift: SOF4FM Front Coil Springs, SOF4RM Rear Coil Springs, Slee Front Caster Plate Kit, Double Cardan drive shaft, Front Panhard Rod, Rear Panhard Rod, Set of Adjustable Rear Upper Control Arms.

The only thing I'll be selling at the end of the conversion from one lift to the other is the OME J springs and I am OK with that. I am swapping out the J springs for Christo's springs because my vehicle has gotten rather heavy and I'd prefer a stronger spring.

IPOR's lift has allowed me to get a solid lift on my truck for a more affordable price and I am wheeling in places I couldn't get to before. I am very happy with the lift but I still plan to upgrade to the Slee 4 inch lift. I hope this is helpful in providing you another option. The decision you'll have to make is whether you can afford to do the more expensive lift up front.

To better understand why I'll upgrade to Slee's 4 inch lift, see the write-up on his site. I was well aware of the write-up before I made my purchase decision but opted for the less expensive lift to accelerate the build of my truck. My experience is that everything Christo says about the reasons for including the additional items is true and warranted so keep that in mind.

 

[TXBruiser]

TexasJack-

Wow, thanks for that response. That is exactly where my mind is at as far as my build. I want to get the lift on, gears and 35" then go back and go more in depth with the lift as time goes on, as well as allowing my wallet to recupperate!! I really appreciate you listing out all the parts needed for your lift and what was needed to get it to that 4" height. You got it right on target. not to say that all the others (Nay, shawn, ect) didnt offer excellent advise, trust me you all had me salivating over your lifts but my project budget is an ever growing monster so I was hoping to allow my lift to be too. great response again Tjack!!!

i am more than sure i will be PMing you to follow up with some questions!!!

 

[Nay]

TexasJack-

Wow, thanks for that response. That is exactly where my mind is at as far as my build. I want to get the lift on, gears and 35" then go back and go more in depth with the lift as time goes on, as well as allowing my wallet to recupperate!! I really appreciate you listing out all the parts needed for your lift and what was needed to get it to that 4" height. You got it right on target. not to say that all the others (Nay, shawn, ect) didnt offer excellent advise, trust me you all had me salivating over your lifts but my project budget is an ever growing monster so I was hoping to allow my lift to be too. great response again Tjack!!!

i am more than sure i will be PMing you to follow up with some questions!!!

You want my advice (rather than pics and vid of my rig )? Put 35's on an OME 2.5" lift (yes, just springs and shocks and caster bushings). Figure out what you really want to do with it, and then look into more lift (if you need it) down the road.

Here is what OME 2.5" looks like on nice new 35's - they fit easily and look right on this amount of lift. I could run every trail I run on 37's with this setup. I would have to skip a few optional lines, but that is generally a good idea anyway

Second pic gives you a comparison on 33's.

 

[Nay]

OME Medium 2.5" on 33's. Note the tweaked stock bumper (I was trying the bigger line).

And then FOR 3.5" on 37's, same exact spot. Sexier pics, but you can spend a lot of money chasing sexy pics.

For the record, I was 100% committed to sticking to base OME lift height and 33's when I bought my 80. That is all that the vast majority of us truly need. I had the opportunity to design a new suspension with FOR and couldn't pass it up - our original design goal was 2.5" optimized for 35's because you should go up a tire size over what can be run stock if you are lifting and they fit that easily.

That is probably still the optimal design goal for most people. You simply don't need more lift for 35's and I remain surprised to this day that it isn't offered by a major suspension company.

 

[TexasJack]

TexasJack-

Wow, thanks for that response. That is exactly where my mind is at as far as my build. I want to get the lift on, gears and 35" then go back and go more in depth with the lift as time goes on, as well as allowing my wallet to recupperate!! I really appreciate you listing out all the parts needed for your lift and what was needed to get it to that 4" height. You got it right on target. not to say that all the others (Nay, shawn, ect) didnt offer excellent advise, trust me you all had me salivating over your lifts but my project budget is an ever growing monster so I was hoping to allow my lift to be too. great response again Tjack!!!

i am more than sure i will be PMing you to follow up with some questions!!!

I am glad I could help. This is simply my point of view. As you can see above, Nay is giving you yet another good option. I went with the 3.5 inch lift because in the back of my mind I was thinking that down the road I might go to 37 inch tires (you have to admit, Nay's truck looks very cool). I need to wheel it more with 35 inch tires before I make that call. If you do the 3.5 inch lift, you can make that decision later as you get more experience.

The advantage to what Nay is suggesting is that you can avoid regearing if you do the 2.5 inch lift. Regearing is expensive and you probably want to do lockers when you do the gearing so it gets real expensive. Of course, I did the 3.5 inch lift and simply didn't regear for a while....most of a year. Truck ran fine but I didn't take it to really steep mountains either. With that said, I know guys who have done the J Springs and L Shocks and have no intention of further mods to their suspension. It does work. Some of these guys have done pretty advanced trails at Moab several years in a row with no problems.

I tried to make a series of build decisions that would take me on a steady line to where I eventually wanted to be. The only potentially wasted step I have taken is the J Springs and I am very happy I did it.

Make sure you weigh what these guys are saying. Nay and Shawn are VERY experienced wheelers and all of these points of view are extremely valid.