Is this normal? Steering Knuckle (Pics)

[TheLoyale]

Oh, didn't know you could paint them. Thats a good idea. Epoxy paint is good stuff, they use it on coil Springs.

Yeah its a '92 3-FE 157,000.

I guess the thing that attracted me most to this one was, its from Missouri, so its pretty much spotless.

I will look in the FAQs, but how do you tell if the Knuckles are at the proper level? I know with the Zerks on the Driveshaft, once grease starts to oooz out of the seal, then they are full, correct? (So it says in my Haynes) "Worst book for an FJ80!"

 

[tirewater]

Typically you'd want the areas where the wipers travel to be fairly clean and more or less shiny (or painted still). Inevitably grease does work its way out and will start caking on the knuckle housing.

Your wiper areas look a bit too shiny. The passenger side looks like there may be an inner seal leak. Make sure the plug going to the inner knuckle is present to prevent water from easily entering the knuckle.

The driver side looks a bit runny as well. This doesn't necessarily mean the inner axle seal, but a natural break down of the grease inside the knuckle. At 120k miles, the original grease in one of my knuckles was a little less firm than I would've liked, while the inner axle seal was fine.

As mentioned, the seal kit isn't terribly expensive. You can get new trunion & wheel bearings if you want, just means more $.

I suggest disassembling the birf joints. It's not hard, a brass drift and 2 lb hammer work well separating them. The reason I suggest this is because it'll be *very* hard to clean the grease out from inside the birf while it's assembled. The faq suggests cleaning with it assembled, but honestly I don't think any cleaning will get the grease out of the middle of it properly. I spent quite a bit of time soaking, spraying, etc...but still didn't feel right and went ahead disassembled and found quite a bit of grease still in there.

Honestly, I think the front axle job is a bit overrated in priority. If all axle maintenance has been ignored for the life of the vehicle it should be done. If someone has diligently made sure they had adequate grease in the knuckle housing things are probably fine. That said, the main reason front axle service is stressed is that birfields are expensive to replace.

 

[flow]

Kernal,
after a brief search among your 7+ birfield threads, I couldn't find any info about painting your balls. Can you post a link to more info? Im curious about the benefits/risks of refinishing that surface like you've done above.

 

[kidglove13]

Oh, didn't know you could paint them. Thats a good idea. Epoxy paint is good stuff, they use it on coil Springs.

Yeah its a '92 3-FE 157,000.

I guess the thing that attracted me most to this one was, its from Missouri, so its pretty much spotless.

I will look in the FAQs, but how do you tell if the Knuckles are at the proper level? I know with the Zerks on the Driveshaft, once grease starts to oooz out of the seal, then they are full, correct? (So it says in my Haynes) "Worst book for an FJ80!"

First remove the grease nut on the knuckle and look down in there with a flash light and have a look
Also you can take a long zip tie and use it as a dip stick and stick it down in there to see where the level is at
The knuckle should be about 2/3rds full
Do not fill the knuckle to the top

 

[TheLoyale]

Ok, I will check the level tomorrow and take a better look at things. I did apply some fresh bearing grease to the knuckles a while ago, as there was a stiff/sticking while turning the wheel (Also had a creak) now its been smooth.

Knuckle rebuild might be over rated, but I am kinda anal when it comes to making sure things are freshened up, like changing all fluids, re-greasing everything etc.

Just want to make sure this thing is ready to rock and roll. My biggest pet peeve is when people don't maintain their vehicle, then by the time someone else gets it (15 years down the road) they need to fix others mistakes and jerry rigging haha. This was once a $30,000 SUV, why not take care of it?

 

[BrotherRob]

First remove the grease nut on the knuckle and look down in there with a flash light and have a look
Also you can take a long zip tie and use it as a dip stick and stick it down in there to see where the level is at
The knuckle should be about 2/3rds full
Do not fill the knuckle to the top

^^This, plus clean your balls and change the dif fluid. Watch it closely, if the soup repeats, you'll need to get in there.

Axle seals seem to be hit or miss, with the exception of one outer seal, mine are original, and I'm pushing 220k. Many go much earlier and I'm sure some are much older than mine.

You're driving a 20 year old truck, some issues are to be expected. Treat it well and it will serve you well.

 

[Tools R Us]

...
It is just an axle seal, which should be serviced every 60k according to the FSM
...

Please post the quote, document, page, etc. I have seen this parroted here forever, but have never seen it published in any official Toyota document.

I don't agree with it, as long as the seals are not excessively leaking, no birf soup, no stud or other issues, etc, I just keep the grease level correct and enjoy driving it. The only reference that I have seen is in the service schedule; lubricate steering knuckles. I doubt that they are referring to rebuilding the front axle every 10-20K miles, more likely referring to; check replenish grease to maintain proper level. I agree, but do it more often, check/add a couple of times a year. I use the seal as the main indicator that the axle needs to be resealed, when one starts leaking, it is time to get dirty.

Most that I see, have rarely or never been checked, are way low or empty. In this condition, there isn't enough grease on the balls/wipers to seal, prevent rust and what little grease is in there is way over-sheared, breaks down, is runny. By bringing the grease level up, they often recover, are able to be driven without additional damage/wear being done, until they can be evaluated, needed repairs done. The main issue is lubrication for the birf, if it is low, they wear quickly, with proper grease level, good to go.

 

[Tools R Us]

... I will look in the FAQs, but how do you tell if the Knuckles are at the proper level? ...

You can get an idea of level from looking at where the grease is on the balls. Your's has little on it, a bit below the red line, likely mostly empty, little/no grease to do the job. The best method is to look in the fill hole with the steering turned fully towards the side you are working on.

 

[Tools R Us]

Oh, didn't know you could paint them. ...

They came painted from the factory. Where mine runs there is little to no risk of rust, so , sometimes paint, sometimes not. If they are pitted, etc, a good coat of paint will make the wipers seal better, possibly last longer.

 

[TheLoyale]

Hmm, that is reassuring. I agree with that statement aswell, who wants to reseal the axle every 60,000? But I too have seen this posted a lot around the board.

Thanks for pointing out where the grease is on my balls, I will defiantly check this out tomorrow and add more to the proper level.

Is ok to mix grease compounds? I'm not sure what was in it (If anyone else added any) I added some "Red" bearing grease. So would be ok if I add Kendall Super-Blu?

I will also check the Gear oil and see what I find.

Thank you all for info and pictures, every bit helps.

 

[Tools R Us]

The birf needs moly grease, most is gray/black. Most automotive greases can be mixed.

 

[TheLoyale]

Not to go off topic, but I don't want to open another thread if I don't have to.

Is the Transfer case supposed to make a consistent moan all the time during driving? (Goes away if your coasting with no throttle) I have changed the oil in it (It was pretty black) it also shifts into Hi/Low Very easy.

Just wondering.

All the fluid was very dirty on this thing when I got it, ATF was black (But not burnt)

 

[TheLoyale]

The birf needs moly grease, most is gray/black. Most automotive greases can be mixed.

Alright, I'll make sure its Molybdenum. If I remember right, Super-blu is a high-temp moly grease.

 

[BrotherRob]

Not to go off topic, but I don't want to open another thread if I don't have to.

Is the Transfer case supposed to make a consistent moan all the time during driving? (Goes away if your coasting with no throttle) I have changed the oil in it (It was pretty black) it also shifts into Hi/Low Very easy.

Just wondering.

All the fluid was very dirty on this thing when I got it, ATF was black (But not burnt)

That sounds like driveshaft vibration. Check your u-joints and make sure they are lubed.

 

[TheLoyale]

That sounds like driveshaft vibration. Check your u-joints and make sure they are lubed.

Made sure about the U-joints, theres no play in them and they are greased.

This noise sounds "Geared" I can also feel a hum in the Transfer case shift lever.

Kinda wish I could ride in another (Well maintained) 3F-E/A440F Cruiser so I could decipher these noises. Also, it fades in sound when you get up to 60mph or beyond.

 

[Frankencruiser]

Made sure about the U-joints, theres no play in them and they are greased.

This noise sounds "Geared" I can also feel a hum in the Transfer case shift lever.

Kinda wish I could ride in another (Well maintained) 3F-E/A440F Cruiser so I could decipher these noises. Also, it fades in sound when you get up to 60mph or beyond.

Try changing the oil in the transfer case to 140 weight. If it goes away or gets quieter that is where the problem is.

 

[Pin_Head]

It is leaking a bit, but there is no rush to do it as long as you keep it full of grease. You can wait until the other side is leaking too when you need to get into it for some other reason.

 

[kidglove13]

Please post the quote, document, page, etc. I have seen this parroted here forever, but have never seen it published in any official Toyota document.

I don't agree with it, as long as the seals are not excessively leaking, no birf soup, no stud or other issues, etc, I just keep the grease level correct and enjoy driving it. The only reference that I have seen is in the service schedule; lubricate steering knuckles. I doubt that they are referring to rebuilding the front axle every 10-20K miles, more likely referring to; check replenish grease to maintain proper level. I agree, but do it more often, check/add a couple of times a year. I use the seal as the main indicator that the axle needs to be resealed, when one starts leaking, it is time to get dirty.

Most that I see, have rarely or never been checked, are way low or empty. In this condition, there isn't enough grease on the balls/wipers to seal, prevent rust and what little grease is in there is way over-sheared, breaks down, is runny. By bringing the grease level up, they often recover, are able to be driven without additional damage/wear being done, until they can be evaluated, needed repairs done. The main issue is lubrication for the birf, if it is low, they wear quickly, with proper grease level, good to go.

I dont believe that you need to change the seals and such every 60k because that is not the point
I beleive that if it is not leaking no need to fix it
I should have been more clear
By no means do I replace seals and such at 60K
It is more along the lines about maintaining everything else like fluids and such, maybe repacking the bearings and fluid changes
Why change a good seal if it is not leaking
But in the OP's case I think he has started to leak at the seal on one of the sides

 

[TheLoyale]

So, this is what I found today, I opened the fill plug on each Knuckle, Stuck a long Allen wrench down inside until I hit the bottom, Pulled it out and only had about 1" of grease on the "Stick" So then I bought some Grease, The best I could find only is 3% Moly (Is that enough?) I then pumped each Knuckle with grease until I thought it was enough, Turned the hubs left and right, then checked, I now have about 3" of grease on the stick. Does this right to anyone?

Pictures are on the bottom of this post. As for what I found in the Diff, I drained the oil, It was black, Doesn't seem to be Milkshake, if you base Milkshake on what a failed HG looks like. The Gear oil also still smells like gear oil.

Also for future reference, I am running 75w-90 Hypoid. The owners manual says 85w-90 Hypoid, but I can not find that. Is this ok?

Now for pictures.

Front of Passenger side Ball after Fill.

Rear of Passenger side Ball after Fill.

Front of Driver side Ball after Fill.

I wouldn't say this is Milkshake, In person, the lighter brown is more of a frothy foam.

So, there it is.

-Tom

 

[tirewater]

It doesn't look normal, it looks rusty.

I would hazard a guess that water got into your front axle. Probably from wading through water. I'd check your diff breathers to make sure they're there.

As far as I can tell, it always seems that Valvoline has a monopoly on grease and gear oil. The local parts stores here (and in CA) only seem to stock the 80w-90 Valvoline gear oil and the Valvoline Moly grease. Occasionally you'll get lucky and they'll carry a more premium product in the weights you require.

My suggestion is to run what you put in the gear box for a few days and swap it with 80w-90 gear oil, monitoring what the fluid you just stuck in looks like. If it looks clean, you're good to go. If it's still rusty, rinse and repeat.

So, this is what I found today, I opened the fill plug on each Knuckle, Stuck a long Allen wrench down inside until I hit the bottom, Pulled it out and only had about 1" of grease on the "Stick" So then I bought some Grease, The best I could find only is 3% Moly (Is that enough?) I then pumped each Knuckle with grease until I thought it was enough, Turned the hubs left and right, then checked, I now have about 3" of grease on the stick. Does this right to anyone?

Pictures are on the bottom of this post. As for what I found in the Diff, I drained the oil, It was black, Doesn't seem to be Milkshake, if you base Milkshake on what a failed HG looks like. The Gear oil also still smells like gear oil.

Also for future reference, I am running 75w-90 Hypoid. The owners manual says 85w-90 Hypoid, but I can not find that. Is this ok?

Now for pictures.

Front of Passenger side Ball after Fill.

Rear of Passenger side Ball after Fill.

Front of Driver side Ball after Fill.

I wouldn't say this is Milkshake, In person, the lighter brown is more of a frothy foam.

So, there it is.

-Tom