I'm sure you guys have discussed this so links to applicable threads would be appreciated as much as replies, but I own an '04 4Runner and '17 LC and the difference is pretty dramatic both off the line and throughout the RPM band. I initially left the stock gears in the 4Runner when I went to 33s and it felt about the same as the LC feels now. Then when I went to 35s on the 4Runner, I changed to 4.88 gears and it's a monster. Very responsive and peppy feeling. I just feel like the LC shouldn't feel this sluggish with that big 5.7 in there, so has anyone regeared even without going to larger tires? And what is the preferred gear for various larger tire sizes?
Is the 200 just badly undergeared?
- Thread starter chiplee
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I regeared with just 33s though it was mainly because a.) I had a heavy payload and b.) I added lockers at the same time. I didn't feel like the truck was sluggish beforehand, though. You may want to check out this thread:
forum.ih8mud.com
Perhaps it's just the throttle response and not the gearing.
Pedal Commander or other throttle controller thoughts?
forum.ih8mud.com
Perhaps it's just the throttle response and not the gearing.
could be the gearing, but could also be the extra 1500-2500 lbs the 200 series carries around.
If you have a 16+, it's the throttle mapping which like @indycole mentioned is remedied with the Pedal Commander. I've had 3 200s 08, 14 and 16, and all 3 have had 34" tires. The 16 felt like an absolute dog because they (poorly) remapped the throttle, but the PC brought it right back in line with my experience with the pre 16 trucks. The 200 has plenty of power, but the 16+ LC needs the PC in order to feel appropriate. You can look at my build thread below to see where I am now, but front/rear bumpers, winch, drawers, sliders, 34s, etc and I see absolutely no need to regear while regularly traveling over high mountain passes in CO.
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Interesting. I'll check out the pedal commander.
Side note, is it a coincidence two of the replies are from Denver metro area or is there a pretty thriving 200 community there? I'm expecting a job offer from a company in Broomfield anyday now. We're pretty torn/undecided.
Side note, is it a coincidence two of the replies are from Denver metro area or is there a pretty thriving 200 community there? I'm expecting a job offer from a company in Broomfield anyday now. We're pretty torn/undecided.
no coincidence- pretty good overall land cruiser presence here- great support from groups, dealers, and indy shops as well. great off road options for fun at all levels.
On a side note, i moved here about 3 years ago and work in Broomfield as well. Happy to be a sounding board if you need any unbiased input. Its a great part of the country to be in.
On a side note, i moved here about 3 years ago and work in Broomfield as well. Happy to be a sounding board if you need any unbiased input. Its a great part of the country to be in.
Not a coincidence. Colorado is like LC central in the US...if there is one. Slee...one of the long-time LC shops is in Golden Colorado... Utah isn’t far away, either, with the premier LC museum in Salt Lake as well as the very active Cruiser Outfitters.
So many great wheeling opportunities between Colorado and Utah...it’s just a great part of the country for significant numbers of LCs.
Cruise Moab is organized through Rising Sun club in the area...and LCDC—though only in its 5th year—has become easily the largest wheeling gathering of 200’s in N. America...always in Colorado. Then there is 100’s in the Hills event...also a huge gathering for a single LC generation in Colorado.
So no. It’s not a coincidence.
So I've only owned and driven one 200... The 2013 I currently own. And considering how much pep it has I'm struggling to understand this thread.
For reference... I came from a 2015 SUPERCHARGED 5.0L F150 Platinum that was insanely fast.... And I'm not at all disappointed by the acceleration of my LC. Actually it surprises me every time I slam the pedal how fast it really is. So what did they do to the 2016+ to make it that bad?
For reference... I came from a 2015 SUPERCHARGED 5.0L F150 Platinum that was insanely fast.... And I'm not at all disappointed by the acceleration of my LC. Actually it surprises me every time I slam the pedal how fast it really is. So what did they do to the 2016+ to make it that bad?
I am running 295 70 18s and it is no dog...and no regearing.
My 11 is hardly a slouch with 275/70/18s and ome. Also the power button makes ramps even more fun. All I need. Pedal sometimes touchy but livable. Sort of agree with @Just a Ninja, I think it's insanely fast for being such a massive rig. But I drive a 100 usually. The 100 gobbles miles on road trips very comfortably, the 200 gobbles miles at a felonious rate, if not careful and it really likes long, big, western US hills, up them like a boss.
wonder how the 8spd ( or maybe it'll be a 10spd ) will do with the new LC V6, in the next gen...
wonder how the 8spd ( or maybe it'll be a 10spd ) will do with the new LC V6, in the next gen...
The Land Cruiser is under 7 seconds 0-60. My 2013 isn't sluggish at all, particularly compared to the 4th Gen V8 4Runner (which was 0-60 in the low 7 second range). I had a 4th gen V8 4Runner. The LC is better in every way.
It's not. The LC is faster than the 4th gen 4Runner.
I think others have hit on why it feels the way it does
To answer the question of "Is the 200 just badly undergeared".... Pulling from this other thread
Compared with an '04 4Runner:
V8:
1 - 3.520 2 - 2.042 3 - 1.400 4 - 1.000 5 - 0.716 R - 3.224
Final drive ratio = 3.727
Overall drive ratio in 1st - 13.12
V6:
1 - 2.804 2 - 1.5313 - 1.000 4 - 0.705 R - 2.393
Final drive ratio = 3.909
Overall drive ratio in 1st - 10.96
You can see it's quite the opposite. The 200-series with 8-speed is hugely overgeared for a stock vehicle in 1st with overall gearing at 15.857. It is almost equivalent to a 200-series 6-speed with 4.88 aftermarket gears. That's a lot of gearing. To put that in perspective, an 8-speed equipped 200-series running 37s is still better geared than the stock 6-speed running stock 31s.
This is likely why the throttle mapping might feel off to some in the newer 200-series. It's as much getting use to the gearing as it is the throttle mapping. In modern cars, the interpretation of the throttle pedal to the computer isn't the same as days of yore when it mechanically opened the throttle body. Throttle input is more akin to torque requests. With huge gearing, come huge mechanical torque at the wheels. Toyota/Lexus may have mapped the throttle in a way that dampens and modulates this torque request to enhance driving smoothness so it doesn't buck and jerk the way an overgeared and powerful vehicle like a tractor can.
To answer the question of "Is the 200 just badly undergeared".... Pulling from this other thread
Compared with an '04 4Runner:
V8:
1 - 3.520 2 - 2.042 3 - 1.400 4 - 1.000 5 - 0.716 R - 3.224
Final drive ratio = 3.727
Overall drive ratio in 1st - 13.12
V6:
1 - 2.804 2 - 1.5313 - 1.000 4 - 0.705 R - 2.393
Final drive ratio = 3.909
Overall drive ratio in 1st - 10.96
You can see it's quite the opposite. The 200-series with 8-speed is hugely overgeared for a stock vehicle in 1st with overall gearing at 15.857. It is almost equivalent to a 200-series 6-speed with 4.88 aftermarket gears. That's a lot of gearing. To put that in perspective, an 8-speed equipped 200-series running 37s is still better geared than the stock 6-speed running stock 31s.
This is likely why the throttle mapping might feel off to some in the newer 200-series. It's as much getting use to the gearing as it is the throttle mapping. In modern cars, the interpretation of the throttle pedal to the computer isn't the same as days of yore when it mechanically opened the throttle body. Throttle input is more akin to torque requests. With huge gearing, come huge mechanical torque at the wheels. Toyota/Lexus may have mapped the throttle in a way that dampens and modulates this torque request to enhance driving smoothness so it doesn't buck and jerk the way an overgeared and powerful vehicle like a tractor can.
It's crazy.. I love the amount of get up and go my 200 has so to think they ruined it that bad with just a transmission change sucks.
I'd trade my 6-speed for an 8-speed. The 200-series is a much a cruiser as it is a heavy duty bruiser. Think comfortable 1/2 ton truck vs 3/4 ton HD truck. It's both at the same time and walks a fine balance.
For those that upsize tires, build heavy, tow heavy, or all the above, all that gearing is an awesome thing. There's times I'm starting from a stand still on a steep grade (e.g. letting traffic pass after pulling onto a turnout), moving 14k tons of rig, on 33's, that I wish for better 1st and 2nd gearing. At speed, it's all good. Just the starting. I could re-gear to get what I want. But I could also upgrade and get it all. Shorter 1st, and taller 8th.
Get bigger tires and I'd bet it would feel great.
I regeared recently and it is a wonderful thing. I did 4.88 but even to 4.3. I think would be a huge improvement. So to the thread q I think the 2015- models are indeed under geared. To @TeCKis300 point from a standstill is where the regear shows it’s worth. And downshifts when passing.
Thanks for reminding me of this chart, @TeCKis300. It confirms once again that the 2016+ LC with the additional 2 gear sort of extending the overall spread downwards makes this a strong trailer tow vehicle. At least in terms of engine and transmission. I suspect it also helps when using engine compression to manage speed on a steep descent.
@chiplee, a few things about Colorado. If you like to use your LC off road there are so many more places and so much more variety in Colorado. There is a reason that the Funtreks guys have 2 books on CO - one for north of I70 and one for south of I70. And you are only a few hours from Utah. So, yes, there are lots of LC owners here and a lot of them who use the full capabilities of their LC/LX. And if you just want to get up into some amazing mountains you don't need to do any off roading to visit Rocky Mountain National Park and some amazing areas up and down the front range including camping, fishing, etc. if you are in to that sort of thing. I'm a photographer (by hobby) and there are far more areas to photograph than I will ever get to. @Markuson mentioned the Rising Sun club which, BTW, meets on the north side of Denver. And there is Slee Offroad where many of us have had various mods done to our vehicles. I just happened to drop by Slee yesterday - because I can living so close - and on pure chance met @Mendocino's wife and daughter - who know a heck of a lot more about Land Cruisers and driving them than I ever will. Very cool. The other thing about the Front Range of CO is that it is growing like crazy. There are a lot of people here and the economy is doing well. Many of these people are transplants from CA.