Intermittent starting (1 Viewer)

[Col Monty]

Hi all,

1996 UK spec HDJ80 (1HD-FT) with 24 to 12 volt conversion.

It has developed intermittent starting issues after 3 days of constant water crossings and mud in the Central Kalahari a few days ago. Nothing up to bonnet (hood...) level but constant water.

Quite regularly this happens: Ignition lights come on as usual, turn to ignition and nothing beyond a faint click (starter relay I guess?). I do see the voltage drop considerably for the duration that I hold the key in the ignition position. Often a few retries will see it start. When the starter cranks at all, it starts - instantly. There is not a battery issue.

I took it to a mechanic (I'm driving through Africa) and pushed him to consider the two relays involved, but he didn't like that much. He changed the starter motor bushes and I think fitted a new/used plunger from another model (and machined it to fit...). Seemed to have been solved but it has proved to simply be the intermittent nature of the fault - it's still present.

I'd rather not change both relays - I've thrown enough money at the truck on this trip.

When it doesn't start, I can cause the stater motor to turn by simply connecting some wire from the positive of the battery. Almost always it will then start when I try the key - but not always.

I'm taking it to another local mechanic in the morning, but I'd like to go armed with some of your experience and knowledge so I can guide him. Suggestions? I know I need to measure the voltage at the starter motor when it won't start - I'll try in the morning if it happens.

Thanks,
Col

 

[rolliges]

Fusible links; the cluster of 3 wires just aft of the positive terminal. They can look good but become brittle.

Or sludge/silt in starter...?

 

[Col Monty]

Fusible links; the cluster of 3 wires just aft of the positive terminal. They can look good but become brittle.

Or sludge/silt in starter...?

Thanks. What are the 3 wires you're referring to for? Mine has a LOT of wires coming from the starter battery...

If it were sludge/silt, or any other issue with the starter motor, why would it turn as soon as it is given direct current from the battery? That's why I think it isn't the starter motor.

 

[Tools R Us]

Possibly the starter, they don't work well if water gets into them. Shouldn't happen, but some re-builders (mostly the lifetime warranty type) don't replace the gaskets/breathers.

 

[rolliges]

View attachment 1816037

 

[Col Monty]

Thanks, I'll take a look in the morning

 

[Col Monty]

Possibly the starter, they don't work well if water gets into them. Shouldn't happen, but some re-builders (mostly the lifetime warranty type) don't replace the gaskets/breathers.

Thanks, but if supplying current directly to the starter motor makes it turn, then doesn't this rule out the starter motor being at fault?

 

[Col Monty]

Took it to another mechanic today and spoke with the knowledgeable owner and his auto electrical guy. He suspected the relay, even more so after removing it and checking inside. He cleaned it up, tidied the contacts and refitted it. Seemed to work until I tried to leave...

He then was adamant it is the starter motor at fault. I checked with Toyota next door, who could order one from S Africa for over USD 1000. I'm not doing that...

It turns out I haven't been touching the positive wire to the starter, it is actually the solenoid. So it could be the solenoid I think?

Any other ideas?

 

[rgsiii]

I would definitely change the fusible link. It is simple fix and can be the originator of much anguish. In the US, it is about £16--likely much higher where you are located. It is a 5 minute process to change it.

 

[Col Monty]

Asked the auto elec to inspect the solenoid contacts. When he removed it he noticed the 'new' plunger was slightly corroded and hugely pitted from arcing. New plunger, no starting problem. So far...

As a side note, I also found out today that, contrary to much advice I've received in the past 6 months, my vehicle is not 24 volt starting. I had been lead to believe it had underwent a 24 to 12 conversion and that the starter was still 24v by virtue of a large Toyota relay arrangement with lots of extra wiring. Is this common for a 1996 HDJ80 with 1HD-FT engine?

 

[Col Monty]

Oh, and thanks for all the input folks, much appreciated!

 

[TomOsborne]

Lots of people go through this. If it hotwires, then it's probably not the starter. Maybe the 12.5+ volts you get from the hotwire/jumper are enough to coax the solenoid? You get less power through the ignition, I measured 10.6v I think. So Id measure directly out of the ignition wire with a multimeter then go upstream to the link connections, terminals and battery posts. It's something simple. If that all checks then it's the starter.

 

[BILT4ME]

Maybe replace your positive battery cable to the starter.

 

[Col Monty]

Thanks guys, seems solid now with the new plunger.

 

[AUGuy]

I'm going through this same thing right now. Ordered new plunger and contacts. The intermittent nature of it seems to be that the plunger rotates after every start attempt, i guess to try to make sure there is even wear on the plunger contact. For me, the contacts were worn to the shape of the plunger. Every n starts, i'd have a misalignment between the plunger and contacts, and i'd hear the plunger smack down, but the engine wouldnt start. Figured i'd try replacing the 17$ plunger/contacts before i shell out 250$ to toyota for a new starter.

 

[Col Monty]

Wow, at $250 I'd probably have gone for the new starter. I was quoted well over 1000 in Botswana!

 

[TomOsborne]

Wow, at $250 I'd probably have gone for the new starter. I was quoted well over 1000 in Botswana!

I heard about those Botswana shops