Ignition issue - lock cylinder or inside steering column

[EscapeWagon62]

Have an intermittent problem but we all know intermittent never gets better over time.
Most of the time you turn the key and the rig fires up fine.
Very occasionally, I’ll turn the key and it will start to crank but cut out.
Lately, on occasion, I turn the key and nothing happens.
In all scenarios, I jiggle the lock cylinder and get it to start.
The lock cylinder itself is relatively new as I had it replaced by Matt when my key started coming out even it I didn’t press the release button.
In all scenarios I have lights, stereo etc.
Other: My battery is getting older snd I’ll have that double checked.. All cables etc are tight and clean (I have the upgraded cables going from the battery to the starter.

Is there a contact point between the lock cylinder I should be looking at and if so has anyone made this repair?

 

[gt7058a]

There is an ignition switch, relay, and old wiring. Some Seattle cruiserheads are working through this issue now and one of them shared this diagram. This is for a 60

 

[toy_tek]

62 is different

Based on your comments I would start with ST1 and Pin1 at the ignition switch.

 

[Spike Strip]

There is an Ignition Starter switch behind the Tumbler. Your symptoms do point to that switch failing, but could be other things. If the switch is original, the contacts wear out after 30K cycles. Might be prudent to replace it while some are still available.

Discontinued from Toyota distribution in USA, but apparently still in production, so you can buy from the Ancestral Homeland. Otherwise, available aftermarket. CityRacer has it.

84450-60150 1988-1990 USA FJ62

 

[pipernd]

Have an intermittent problem but we all know intermittent never gets better over time.
Most of the time you turn the key and the rig fires up fine.
Very occasionally, I’ll turn the key and it will start to crank but cut out.
Lately, on occasion, I turn the key and nothing happens.
In all scenarios, I jiggle the lock cylinder and get it to start.
The lock cylinder itself is relatively new as I had it replaced by Matt when my key started coming out even it I didn’t press the release button.
In all scenarios I have lights, stereo etc.
Other: My battery is getting older snd I’ll have that double checked.. All cables etc are tight and clean (I have the upgraded cables going from the battery to the charger.

Is there a contact point between the lock cylinder I should be looking at and if so has anyone made this repair?

Holy SH!T! I literally came here to ask about this very issue right down the key coming out (but I don’t get the “nothing happens” anymore). Background:

I had an engine swap finish last fall. Was getting an intermittent slow crank/start. When it wouldn’t start I could put a jump box on it and it would. Until it wouldn’t. Turned out to be a loose signal wire (I think) to the starter which when that was tightened up the problem resolved for awhile. A few months ago I started having the same slow crank. It’d try, then stop, then try again, then stop again, then start like nothing happened w/ a perfect idle. That said, I *think* the voltage drops while cranking was so much that it impacts my CAN bus communication (I’m guessing here). Anyway, I want to get the start back so it cranks perfectly every time.

Also. . .I had/have an intermittent 0073/0700/0100 codes that could be related to wires that had melted from the trans plug to the ecm (since repaired) that was causing the trans to go into limp mode. I thought i had this issue kicked but it happened again today. Now I’m convinced that the crank issue is involved and causing a voltage drop that’s confusing the ecm. (As you can tell by now, I’m no electrician nor mechanic).

I’m at my whits end. I’ve got an awesome truck 90% of the time but that 10% really bothers me and impacts the joy of the truck. I just want it fixed but don’t know where to start. Is it a grounding issue? Is it something w/ an after market addition (starter? Locks? Cruise control? Something else?) Is it those melted wires and I need to replace my entire harness? I’m about to replace the signal and main wire to the new starter (it’s new bc I though the starter was the issue last winter when i got a no start/no crank a few times) but I feel like I’m just chasing gremlins at this point. Anyway. . If anyone has any ideas I’m all ears. (I’ll try to attach a file to this after I post)

 

[Lead Head]

Have an intermittent problem but we all know intermittent never gets better over time.
Most of the time you turn the key and the rig fires up fine.
Very occasionally, I’ll turn the key and it will start to crank but cut out.
Lately, on occasion, I turn the key and nothing happens.
In all scenarios, I jiggle the lock cylinder and get it to start.
The lock cylinder itself is relatively new as I had it replaced by Matt when my key started coming out even it I didn’t press the release button.
In all scenarios I have lights, stereo etc.
Other: My battery is getting older snd I’ll have that double checked.. All cables etc are tight and clean (I have the upgraded cables going from the battery to the charger.

Is there a contact point between the lock cylinder I should be looking at and if so has anyone made this repair?

This sounds like the actual ignition switch behind the ignition cylinder is failing. You could try replacing it, or buying a can of Deoxit and spraying it in the switch.

Holy SH!T! I literally came here to ask about this very issue right down the key coming out (but I don’t get the “nothing happens” anymore). Background:

I had an engine swap finish last fall. Was getting an intermittent slow crank/start. When it wouldn’t start I could put a jump box on it and it would. Until it wouldn’t. Turned out to be a loose signal wire (I think) to the starter which when that was tightened up the problem resolved for awhile. A few months ago I started having the same slow crank. It’d try, then stop, then try again, then stop again, then start like nothing happened w/ a perfect idle. That said, I *think* the voltage drops while cranking was so much that it impacts my CAN bus communication (I’m guessing here). Anyway, I want to get the start back so it cranks perfectly every time.

Also. . .I had/have an intermittent 0073/0700/0100 codes that could be related to wires that had melted from the trans plug to the ecm (since repaired) that was causing the trans to go into limp mode. I thought i had this issue kicked but it happened again today. Now I’m convinced that the crank issue is involved and causing a voltage drop that’s confusing the ecm. (As you can tell by now, I’m no electrician nor mechanic).

I’m at my whits end. I’ve got an awesome truck 90% of the time but that 10% really bothers me and impacts the joy of the truck. I just want it fixed but don’t know where to start. Is it a grounding issue? Is it something w/ an after market addition (starter? Locks? Cruise control? Something else?) Is it those melted wires and I need to replace my entire harness? I’m about to replace the signal and main wire to the new starter (it’s new bc I though the starter was the issue last winter when i got a no start/no crank a few times) but I feel like I’m just chasing gremlins at this point. Anyway. . If anyone has any ideas I’m all ears. (I’ll try to attach a file to this after I post)

This sounds like a bad battery > engine/chassis/body ground. Probably a bad positive wire to the starter, too.

 

[EscapeWagon62]

There is an Ignition Starter switch behind the Tumbler. Your symptoms do point to that switch failing, but could be other things. If the switch is original, the contacts wear out after 30K cycles. Might be prudent to replace it while some are still available.

Discontinued from Toyota distribution in USA, but apparently still in production, so you can buy from the Ancestral Homeland. Otherwise, available aftermarket. CityRacer has it.

84450-60150 1988-1990 USA FJ62

Awesome info, this absolutely sounds like the issue.
Ordered one
Thank you

 

[pipernd]

This sounds like the actual ignition switch behind the ignition cylinder is failing. You could try replacing it, or buying a can of Deoxit and spraying it in the switch.

This sounds like a bad battery > engine/chassis/body ground. Probably a bad positive wire to the starter, too.

Thanks. Battery is new, grounds were checked but I’ll go there again too. I’m hoping at this point it’s the + wire to the starter bc that’s the one thing I haven’t messed with.

 

[EscapeWagon62]

So I replaced mine today. Seems to have solved my intermittent starting issue.
Not particularly difficult.
You’ll notice that the City Racer sourced replacement is quite a bit shorter in length than OE.
It fits, just shorter.

 

[EscapeWagon62]

And for those that need to do same:
Remove cowling from steering column
Remove 1 screw holding in the ignition switch on the left side of the steering column
You can slide the switch under the steering column, loosen a few of the metal tabs holding the wiring harness to the steering column
THE HARDEST PART - Remove two screws (photo 2)holding the other switch to the lock cylinder (I don’t know what that switch even does but assume its important ). These two screws have their heads toward the fire wall and the threads toward the drivers seat. You’ll need a small screwdriver and patience to get these two out.
You can disconnect the old harness by reaching up above your brake pedal and behind the air ducting.

When installing the new ignition switch, start with the switch that connects to the back of your lock cylinder, fish the wiring harness under the steering column, attach the switch/dongle to the lock cylinder etc etc

 

[EscapeWagon62]

Just wanted to do a follow up on this.
The improvement in starting is DRAMATIC.
Some specific symptoms I experienced prior to replacement:
1. Turn key, all accessory items go blank, no crank (exactly like a dead or dying battery)
2. Having to turn the key way hard to get starter to kick in. Sometimes it would, sometimes it would exhibit behavior listed in #1
3. Occasionally, when actively cranking but engine had not fully started, crank power would stop. Almost like a lurching.
4. Occasionally it would crank (extended crank time) but not start
5. In most cases a second crank would get things going.
6. As time went on the symptoms appeared to the point where it happened every 3 startups
7. I could generally giggle the key/lock cylinder to get it to behave peoperly. As time went on this became less effective. I was never stranded but certainly was losing some confidence.

I will neither conform nor deny that I tried many other repairs/tweaks to get this resolved including:
One or more fuel pressure regulators
Testing/charging battery
Checking all lines from battery to starter etc
Adjusting timing
Adjusting valve lash
Adjusting air flow/idle screw

Changing this one part made a dramatic and immediate improvement.

 

[Spike Strip]

As you found out, those switches wear over time and as the contacts wear or get dirty/corroded, the voltage to the starter decreases. It's imperceptible. And it's been a while since I've looked at the wiring schematic, but in the 'RUN' position, that contact wears too.

It's amazing how much shorter the replacement is, compared to OE, but I guess the OE just adapting the late FJ60 to the 62 or perhaps the OE one is made to fit all world models. Anyway, nice to know there's a viable replacement.

I strongly recommend to people who have the original switch on both 60s and 62s to at least buy a replacement backup, while quality units are still available.

The later FJ60 has that buzzer switch (the little white button thing on the loom). I removed it cuz I hate that buzzer.

 

[EscapeWagon62]

As you found out, those switches wear over time and as the contacts wear or get dirty/corroded, the voltage to the starter decreases. It's imperceptible. And it's been a while since I've looked at the wiring schematic, but in the 'RUN' position, that contact wears too.

It's amazing how much shorter the replacement is, compared to OE, but I guess the OE just adapting the late FJ60 to the 62 or perhaps the OE one is made to fit all world models. Anyway, nice to know there's a viable replacement.

I strongly recommend to people who have the original switch on both 60s and 62s to at least buy a replacement backup, while quality units are still available.

The later FJ60 has that buzzer switch (the little white button thing on the loom). I removed it cuz I hate that buzzer.

And thanks for letting me know what that white button thingy is for. Had no idea snd its a pain to switch out

 

[MWM1]

So the OEM replacement was too short to work with my tilt steering wheel. I have a EE friend that is going to extend the wiring harness and still fit in the tight confines of the column. Initially I had similar symptoms as you. Changing the lock cylinder helped, but this replacement is key. (No pun intended)

 

[pipernd]

Update for those who care. I ended up testing the signal wire to the starter and found that it, more often than not and then ultimately never, didn’t proivde the 12V when the key was in start. There was, however, a 2nd wire that paralleled the starter signal wire that did provide 12v at crank. I tapped into that and ran it to the starter and voila! Perfect, strong start every time and zero CEL codes since.

Problem though was that the original signal wire was run through a PCS 5100 module for NSS/reverse lights (I didn’t know this until this week). Took me a few weeks to figure out why my backup camera wasn’t coming on anymore. The original S wire was run through that module so when i bypassed that I neutered my NSS and now have no reverse lights (or backup camera).

My thought now is that it’s the module that is no good or it’s the wiring to the ECU from the module that’s no good. My issues with the truck suffering voltage drop/voltage fluctuations at start have been there since day 1 post-swap. It wasn’t until my start went from fine to hard to non existent requiring me to find a solution that i realized what was going on generally. The module is getting 12v as it’s flashing green (i was wondering where that light was from when driving at night!) so it’s either the module itself or the wiring from the module to the ecu as it’s effectively just continuing to keep the circuit closed now. Anyone ever deal with this or have more electrical experience in this respect than me (that’s a LOW bar btw) let me know!

 

[EscapeWagon62]

So the OEM replacement was too short to work with my tilt steering wheel. I have a EE friend that is going to extend the wiring harness and still fit in the tight confines of the column. Initially I had similar symptoms as you. Changing the lock cylinder helped, but this replacement is key. (No pun intended)

I too have a tilt wheel but found a routing path that made it work. No doubt another couple (or 4) inches would have been ideal. I ran the new harness above all other harnesses as it left the new switch assembly and traversed the bottom pf the steering column. Worth a try vs building an extension.

 

[Lead Head]

Update for those who care. I ended up testing the signal wire to the starter and found that it, more often than not and then ultimately never, didn’t proivde the 12V when the key was in start. There was, however, a 2nd wire that paralleled the starter signal wire that did provide 12v at crank. I tapped into that and ran it to the starter and voila! Perfect, strong start every time and zero CEL codes since.

Problem though was that the original signal wire was run through a PCS 5100 module for NSS/reverse lights (I didn’t know this until this week). Took me a few weeks to figure out why my backup camera wasn’t coming on anymore. The original S wire was run through that module so when i bypassed that I neutered my NSS and now have no reverse lights (or backup camera).

My thought now is that it’s the module that is no good or it’s the wiring to the ECU from the module that’s no good. My issues with the truck suffering voltage drop/voltage fluctuations at start have been there since day 1 post-swap. It wasn’t until my start went from fine to hard to non existent requiring me to find a solution that i realized what was going on generally. The module is getting 12v as it’s flashing green (i was wondering where that light was from when driving at night!) so it’s either the module itself or the wiring from the module to the ecu as it’s effectively just continuing to keep the circuit closed now. Anyone ever deal with this or have more electrical experience in this respect than me (that’s a LOW bar btw) let me know!

That doesn't make sense. Why would bypassing the "Start" signal to the solenoid stop your backup camera or reverse lights from working? It sounds like the module itself is the problem, or it was wired incorrectly.

Did whoever did the swap document the wiring?

 

[pipernd]

bc the original S wore was wired through my module that links my ecu to my backup/nss. that’s where my vehicle reads that i’m in reverse (or any gear) as opposed to a switch on the shifter or trans.

 

[Lead Head]

bc the original S wore was wired through my module that links my ecu to my backup/nss. that’s where my vehicle reads that i’m in reverse (or any gear) as opposed to a switch on the shifter or trans.

That's fine, except the "S" wire only gets power sent to it when you turn the key to start. It's completely irrelevant to the reverse side of things. The SFT-5100 module just controls two relays, which the start signal and reverse light wires go through.

Like I said before: Does whoever wired this thing have a schematic, diagram or notes of what they did? You're not going to make any headway without that, or some reverse engineering.