IFS failures (for Mr. Schotts)

[dclee]

Like I said before, I would like to understand the difference between the UZJ and the HDJ in order to asses if, here in the US, we have a potential problem.

I believe the T-bars are different between HDJ and UZJ, at least ARB's replacement bars are. Diesel bars are heavier. Has to do with the increased weight of the diesel "donk" (as the Aussies call it). So I would assume that the stock T-bars are also different. Not sure what other differences (if any) there would be in the suspensions of the two types. Can anyone from Oz pipe in?

Thanks,

 

[Jim_Chow]

[snip]As to HDJ, I think one reason is because most people who actually use these trucks for their intended purpose in Oz tend to get diesels, as that's all that's the only fuel available when you're crossing thousands of miles of the Simpson Desert, etc.

[snip]
See ya,

Yep, and the HDJ gets much better fuel economy. In a UZJ, you'd have to carry like 100 gal of fuel vs. 25gal in the main tank and 40 gal in the rear tank for the HDJ. I think that's the bottom line reason. With all that extra gasoline you'd have to carry, you need jerry cans, and lots of them, which is even more weight (or tow a trailer full of gasoline?). I think I'd opt for a HDJ-78 "troopie" and have custom tanks underneath the two rows of rear bench seats that face each other (one for water, one for diesel).

If you have to drive a UZJ 1000 miles in between gas stations, what would you do? This is the achilles heel to an otherwise excellent vehicle. Oh, in the Paris-Dakar HDJ100, then had a large custom fuel tank in the interior (no back seats, of course) w/ a fill cap located high up on the left side of the vehicle.

 

[Tom B]

Ya, I'm with ya Doron. I think all we can do is keep an eye on this potential problem. If we see a crack develop we buy a new arm. Not a big deal to me.

While owners of other brand vehicles are replacing head gaskets, electrical items, engines, trannies, heck, pitching the whole rig at 100K miles, etc. etc., I sure don't mind buying a new $200 (or whatever the cost) arm for an otherwise ultra-reliaible rig.

I'm with cruiser99; it's definetly a fatigue issue and something I'd like to understand further since I'm not convinced it could not happen here. While the probability is really really low, the consequences are severe. Either way, it's just something to look out for, and is not discouraging me in my 100-series hunt. When I lift it and slap 35's under it, I'm going to install the bracing kit for whatever it is worth since it seemed to show a measureable difference in failure rate for the Oz mining crew as told on the 100scool email list.

Again, it's only like $80 and here's a quicker link to it, http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/gallery/heftymerv/abw.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Sorry about the mispelling, must have been too close to bedtime when I posted...

That's OK, just don't change the "O" to an "I".

 

[Aseif007]

I am still confident in the UZJ and I would still buy if the numbers are right. I am glad to hear that those of you that take your vehicles off road are not seeing these problems. Hopefully it is isolated to the HDJs.

 

[sleeoffroad]

I would totally prefer relying on the 100's CV joints ANY DAY, ANY TRIP over a live axle model. Which do you want to repair/fix in the middle of nowhere? Give me the CV over a birfield baby!

Having broken both, I would still take the birfield any day.

 

[dclee]

That's OK, just don't change the "O" to an "I".

Hehe, that made my evening!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Having broken both, I would still take the birfield any day.

That's only because you have a STACK of them (most broken) sitting around your shop!

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Having broken both, I would still take the birfield any day.

Having only changed a subaru IFS front axle, the birfield is much, much easier to fix.

This thread and the thread about the broken front diffs is making me wonder about the wisdom of the 100 series front end design, and if it will hold up like a live axle Land Cruiser in rough service. There are tons of FJ40's still Cruisin and wheeling with 30+ year old front axles. Any chance the 100s will compile that sort of a record?

I have to hand it to you guys for wheeling these super nice trucks.

 

[calamaridog]

Having only changed a subaru IFS front axle, the birfield is much, much easier to fix.

This thread and the thread about the broken front diffs is making me wonder about the wisdom of the 100 series front end design, and if it will hold up like a live axle Land Cruiser in rough service. There are tons of FJ40's still Cruisin and wheeling with 30+ year old front axles. Any chance the 100s will compile that sort of a record?

I have to hand it to you guys for wheeling these super nice trucks.

Too late to debate the wisdom of the IFS, as we are stuck with it. The issue for us is how do we maximize performance without sacrificing reliability? And how do we maintain what we are basically stuck with?

As far as the Toyota IFS goes, it is much, much better than the totally worthless set-up in my wife's Jeep Liberty. The IFS in the Jeep is HORRIBLE. No travel, no strength, no room for improvement, exploding aluminum front diffs, etc.

I have several friends with lifted Tacomas running original cv's who regularly beat the hell out of them. No problems with the front end at all after 150,000 hard miles. Worst case, replacement of occasional cv boots. Just what we've come to expect from Toyota trucks.

Those people with a "feel" for their rigs tend not to break s***, those who don't have a "feel" do break s***. If you run 35's and 37's on the IFS, then yes, you are asking for it. But the same holds true for the older cruiser axles.

I've never changed a Birfield but I've watched broken cv's get replaced in 30 minutes. Couldn't have been more simple, after they've done it a few times. And the guys who are real hard on s***, they SAS, or find a rig they can't break, which they end up breaking anyways.

With proper maintenance, the IFS should work well for a long, long time. And at some point, these rigs will be cheap and people will start cutting and hanging a solid axle on these rigs anyways, or using them for parts.

All I can say is I am not at all disappointed. This truck is SOLID. I couldn't be more impressed. Several years from now, it will make a nice tow rig for my ??? In the meantime, I'm going to have some fun with it.

 

[FirstToy]

This thread and the thread about the broken front diffs is making me wonder about the wisdom of the 100 series front end design, and if it will hold up like a live axle Land Cruiser in rough service.

I have to hand it to you guys for wheeling these super nice trucks.

After driving one, I am impressed you guys wheel them hard too. They are sooo nice inside. Plush. That takes some iron resolve!

I don't think IFS issues will be a problem. I have no idea why they went torsion bars but the whole thing looks beef to me.
If there are breakage issues w/ mounts, it's with armored, fully laden 100's over brutal surfaces- sounds like alot of suspension parts will take a beating from any truck.

Yup Andrew, I'm up working too Have fun at the hospital!
James

 

[the shed guy]

Though the A arms crack across to the torsion bar mount hole, the torsion bar isnt the cause, but banging the car on the bumpstops is what causes the cracks.

The t bar mounts in centreline of the pivot bush for the A arm, which is where the most force is exerted when levered over the arm against the bump stop.

People who think they can fit dual batts, steel bar and / or winch then simply "wind up" the T bars, instead of fitting the correct springs in the front are the ones having the most trouble with breakage so far here from the data I have on 9 broken vehicles.

The next IFS 100 issue will be over extending the front suspension, and snapping the top ball joint off.

 

[calamaridog]

Limit straps.
Gas charged bump stops.

 

[the shed guy]

Well, its not that I dont know how to fix it, its just explaining to them how much it will cost to solve the problem, and what happens if they dont, and the wheel becomes detached.

 

[cruiser99]

Darren,

When you say hitting the bump stops, you mean at the end of the compression (wheel goes up)?

Thanks.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I can't remember the last time I bottomed (wheel going up) out my front suspension??? I can see where flying down bad roads can stress that component that's cracking. When trail riding though at 0.1 MPH going over rocks I just can't see severe stress on the few occasions the bump stop gets reached?

 

[dclee]

When trail riding though at 0.1 MPH going over rocks I just can't see severe stress on the few occasions the bump stop gets reached?

Yes, I think these problems are mostly occuring on trucks used for extensive Outback travel, i.e. load it up past GVWR and hit a 1000 miles of severe corrugations at 100 km/h. Lots of stress.

 

[cruiser99]

<<Yes, I think these problems are mostly occuring on trucks used for extensive Outback travel, i.e. load it up past GVWR and hit a 1000 miles of severe corrugations at 100 km/h. Lots of stress.>>

Which is exactly the situation that the 100 series was design for (and the 80, for that matter).

 

[calamaridog]

I've never had a vehicle that wouldn't benefit from a suspension upgrade. A few hundred bucks worth of aftermarket torsion bars and shocks and nobody would have this problem. Not a bad investment in an expensive vehicle.

 

[the shed guy]

Yes,
proper shcoks which control the movement, with upgraded springs [T bars] to help with bigger unsprung weight [wheel tyre combo] and any additional weight added would go a long way to stopping the bump stops being hit hard enough to crack the arms on compression.