The OP made it sound like a steam engine runs off water.
Good luck getting a car to run on wood fired steam, or garbage.
If the fit hit the shan
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The OP made it sound like a steam engine runs off water.
Good luck getting a car to run on wood fired steam, or garbage.
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
What if there is a big disaster and everybody just gets together and helps each other out?
It's a crappy plot for an apocalypse movie but entirely possible in the Realworld™.
It's a crappy plot for an apocalypse movie but entirely possible in the Realworld™.
Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
But think of the disappointment of all of the zombie hunters, wannabe road warriors and "I'll kill for diesel" planners. 
Mark...
Mark...
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
I think those guys live in places where you don't know your neighbors name and wouldn't think of stopping to see if you could help when saw a car on the side of the road with the hood up.
Devilmans Hand
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That pretty much sums up the D.C. area. You're more likely to be run over and cursed at because you caused the slight slowing of traffic.
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I dont run alternate fuels in preperation for anything. i run alt fuel cause i am a cheap bastard who cut 50% of his fuel cost out. and its kind fun to tinker with. jmo. the apocolypse fuel is just a side effect
Devilmans Hand
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Anyone given thought to converting an old engine to run off of woodgas?
Wood may be easier to find than old automotive fluids in the country, depending on where you'd find yourself.
Wood may be easier to find than old automotive fluids in the country, depending on where you'd find yourself.
Which is of course what would happen, by and large. But it's hard to turn that idea into a profitable fear-based internet business.
Good thread.
Old MUD-er, Expedition Forum newbie.
I'm pretty well-versed in the SHTF and TEOTWAWKI drill, my Bonnie in the sig line is chosen and equipped with that in mind as its primary default function. Otherwise it's my road trip, snow days, LC OHV clubs wheeler and cafe' cruiser. My DD is an old fox-body rag-top, 2.3L '93 LX.
Bonnie stays loaded with a full inventory or survival, rescue, camping and emergency gear and in very few minutes of armory/magazine transfer, then closet and kitchen raid and I'm off for the blue ridges. I have several choices at that time, probably up behind and old scout camp in north Georgia but there are also closer places.
But the reason I showed up here is I've moved to the Balkans and setting up a base here.
First item is a Lada Niva. I am looking at two on Tuesday. Both are bi-fuel with a autogas conversion installed.
This is primarily an economy measure in Croatia but I'm researching for significant differences between that and LPG, LNG, camping propane, etc etc.
The Niva will also be our DD and mid-range travel car. If you don't know it think FJ55 the size of a Fiat Panda but with a 4wd drive train and running gear built by Massey-Ferguson all designed the steppes of Siberia.
BTW since I live on an island here my primary escape plan would probably be by boat but the Niva properly prepared and stashed in the rocks would be great for provisioning raids.
My motto is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Or, in short: Semper Paratus. Be Prepared.
Old MUD-er, Expedition Forum newbie.
I'm pretty well-versed in the SHTF and TEOTWAWKI drill, my Bonnie in the sig line is chosen and equipped with that in mind as its primary default function. Otherwise it's my road trip, snow days, LC OHV clubs wheeler and cafe' cruiser. My DD is an old fox-body rag-top, 2.3L '93 LX.
Bonnie stays loaded with a full inventory or survival, rescue, camping and emergency gear and in very few minutes of armory/magazine transfer, then closet and kitchen raid and I'm off for the blue ridges. I have several choices at that time, probably up behind and old scout camp in north Georgia but there are also closer places.
But the reason I showed up here is I've moved to the Balkans and setting up a base here.
First item is a Lada Niva. I am looking at two on Tuesday. Both are bi-fuel with a autogas conversion installed.
This is primarily an economy measure in Croatia but I'm researching for significant differences between that and LPG, LNG, camping propane, etc etc.
The Niva will also be our DD and mid-range travel car. If you don't know it think FJ55 the size of a Fiat Panda but with a 4wd drive train and running gear built by Massey-Ferguson all designed the steppes of Siberia.
BTW since I live on an island here my primary escape plan would probably be by boat but the Niva properly prepared and stashed in the rocks would be great for provisioning raids.
My motto is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Or, in short: Semper Paratus. Be Prepared.
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Prepare:: if the clown in charge is reelected we will have a serioius issue with life as we know it. If the other guy is elected, the current clown in charge will declare MARTIAL LAW and were all in serious trouble, guns or not. The new medical guidelines from Obamacare are telling, telling not asking you to under penalty of perjury do you possess any firearms m your care will be NOT. Pass this onto any other forums you are on. 2nd amendment is in serious jeopardy. Locked and Loaded ready for anything your new motto
Really, politics? Really?? Come on, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that it's best to keep that branch of this subject matter in iH8mud CHIT-CHAT: P&R.
Yea youre right.. politics and mud dont mix... sorry
My survivalist friends always tell me I'll have to defend against roving bands of ruffians.
I always tell them, "Not if I'm a roving ruffian."
There's a very good post-apocalypse book, _Wolf and Iron_ By Gordon Dickson, that puts forth a lot of interesting ideas.
Some things from that:
Solar recharged electric mountain bike w/foam filled tires.
Get some basic blacksmithing tools--anvil, fullers, hammer, tongs--with that you can make near anything.
Pet wolf. Ok a stretch but still pretty good.
Learn how to deal with horses 'cause no matter what you drive fuel will run out.
Learn herbal medicine 'cause all the good drugs are going to either wear out or turn toxic in no time.
Think about the Foxfire series of books concerning 'hillbilly tech.'
Eventually you'll run out of modern ammo too. I considered muzzleloaders as a replacement but making black powder is fiddly, so archery seems a good idea. That said, there are several books out on 'primitive' archery 'cause that magic compound bow is going to toast all the strings eventually. Primitive bows exhibit some amazing millennium-old technology that's echoed in modern archery.
I always tell them, "Not if I'm a roving ruffian."
There's a very good post-apocalypse book, _Wolf and Iron_ By Gordon Dickson, that puts forth a lot of interesting ideas.
Some things from that:
Solar recharged electric mountain bike w/foam filled tires.
Get some basic blacksmithing tools--anvil, fullers, hammer, tongs--with that you can make near anything.
Pet wolf. Ok a stretch but still pretty good.
Learn how to deal with horses 'cause no matter what you drive fuel will run out.
Learn herbal medicine 'cause all the good drugs are going to either wear out or turn toxic in no time.
Think about the Foxfire series of books concerning 'hillbilly tech.'
Eventually you'll run out of modern ammo too. I considered muzzleloaders as a replacement but making black powder is fiddly, so archery seems a good idea. That said, there are several books out on 'primitive' archery 'cause that magic compound bow is going to toast all the strings eventually. Primitive bows exhibit some amazing millennium-old technology that's echoed in modern archery.
In some communities this would happen - the smaller, more close knit, know and help each other kind of towns. Most cities, small or large, I personally feel there is not a chance. Look at Nawlin's after Katrina. They were using the situation to loot, murder, steel, rape, and even shoot at rescue workers. Our south Florida neighborhoods typically do come together to help out but this is short term. Extend the power being out, lack of food, lack of water, lack of meds, etc to weeks or even months (with no government intervention) and you will have complete and total chaos as people panic and do whatever it takes to survive and feed their families. This is not fiction, it is human nature.
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
Really? Everything would break down?
Why do we not hear about this when they have an earthquake in <insert CA, Japanese, middle eastern city name here>?
Or wild fires in <insert American SW or Australian city name here>?
It's not like these are rare events worldwide, and a lot of them happen in places a lot less civilized than the US.
Even the riots in LA after the Rodney King thing were pretty small, basically if you stayed home for a couple of days you were safe.
Why do we not hear about this when they have an earthquake in <insert CA, Japanese, middle eastern city name here>?
Or wild fires in <insert American SW or Australian city name here>?
It's not like these are rare events worldwide, and a lot of them happen in places a lot less civilized than the US.
Even the riots in LA after the Rodney King thing were pretty small, basically if you stayed home for a couple of days you were safe.
Rusty you are correct, LA was a ZOO, the outskirts were quiet. But there is the possibility someone with half a brain will tease himself into thinking there is money in that part of town and the race is on. Prepare, thats all one needs to accomplish. The government will not help you they are here to disrupt you.
WAIT!?
WHAT?!
WHAT?!
Nobody wants a deuce and a half? Literally runs off anything combustible, can cover most of the worlds terrain, carry massive amounts of stuff and people. Reliable technology used for users and years.
You said anything I wanted and that's my choice
and if its zombies we are putting a plow on the front and cracking some skulls
You said anything I wanted and that's my choice
and if its zombies we are putting a plow on the front and cracking some skulls
Devilmans Hand
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this thread jumps everywhere.
From realistic responses to complete BS, either depending on POV.
there needs to be a clear distinction between local, regional, national, and global disasters.
also distinguish between man made and natural disasters.
We will really only be concerned with what happens immediately around where we live and frequent.
We are also usually accustomed to natural disasters that occur with frequency in our areas and have greater knowledge on how to mitigate, prepare, respond, and recover. This is why people in tornado county have shelters and why people in earthquake prone areas have building codes to address natural resonance concerns. When an earthquake hits the Mid-Atlantic states few people have been 'trained' on what to do and will likely panic.
I think a more modern society, instead of a more "civilized" society, would have a harder time coping with the loss of those tech and resources that which we are accustomed. Shut off the electricity and the water and people will die because they do not know how to live without those. Uninformed people will start a generator indoors and drink untreated water.
Man made disasters are what people really fear, like terrorism, because they can strike anywhere at any time. man made disasters can be related to natural disasters when people panic and fight for resources during a natural disaster. I'm more concerned with what my neighbor is willing to do to me in order to guarantee the survival of his family. This is why i 'prepare.'
basic Ant and the Grasshopper type stuff.
the difference with what happened during Hurricane Katrina is that first responders could not get to the areas where people needed help. So many people stayed in an evacuation zone too.
Major disasters happen when some big event happens and the institutions that our societies have created are unable to effectively 'deal' with the situation. This can happen through a combination of not having a plan, not having the people and equipment, and not deploying those people in time.
Most of these issues have been addressed by creating and feeding the big monster that is DHS, but there can always be some disaster coming tomorrow.
From realistic responses to complete BS, either depending on POV.
there needs to be a clear distinction between local, regional, national, and global disasters.
also distinguish between man made and natural disasters.
We will really only be concerned with what happens immediately around where we live and frequent.
We are also usually accustomed to natural disasters that occur with frequency in our areas and have greater knowledge on how to mitigate, prepare, respond, and recover. This is why people in tornado county have shelters and why people in earthquake prone areas have building codes to address natural resonance concerns. When an earthquake hits the Mid-Atlantic states few people have been 'trained' on what to do and will likely panic.
I think a more modern society, instead of a more "civilized" society, would have a harder time coping with the loss of those tech and resources that which we are accustomed. Shut off the electricity and the water and people will die because they do not know how to live without those. Uninformed people will start a generator indoors and drink untreated water.
Man made disasters are what people really fear, like terrorism, because they can strike anywhere at any time. man made disasters can be related to natural disasters when people panic and fight for resources during a natural disaster. I'm more concerned with what my neighbor is willing to do to me in order to guarantee the survival of his family. This is why i 'prepare.'
basic Ant and the Grasshopper type stuff.
the difference with what happened during Hurricane Katrina is that first responders could not get to the areas where people needed help. So many people stayed in an evacuation zone too.
Major disasters happen when some big event happens and the institutions that our societies have created are unable to effectively 'deal' with the situation. This can happen through a combination of not having a plan, not having the people and equipment, and not deploying those people in time.
Most of these issues have been addressed by creating and feeding the big monster that is DHS, but there can always be some disaster coming tomorrow.
Devilmans, seems to me there a couple necessary components to the fit hitting the shan.
1. Scope. For a real FHS scenario it's gotta be near global, at least broadly regional. Even in that case it would be possible to outrun it--for true FHS there should be no permanent safe haven.
2. Duration. If a government can respond to the disaster within any useful amount of time, no FHS. In my tiny mind FHS is defined as chaos without foreseeable end.
Hm. What else?
1. Scope. For a real FHS scenario it's gotta be near global, at least broadly regional. Even in that case it would be possible to outrun it--for true FHS there should be no permanent safe haven.
2. Duration. If a government can respond to the disaster within any useful amount of time, no FHS. In my tiny mind FHS is defined as chaos without foreseeable end.
Hm. What else?
