Idle control valve/solenoid and the stutters

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vonschnitz

vonschnitz

10 Year
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Threads
1
Messages
21
I recently passed California SMOG (with the help of MUDRAK and Gary)...Huge milestone! Artemis ran great the whole ride home, stopped for gas, topped off, and went about my drive...nothing short of perfect!

The next day fired her up and she wouldn't hold idle. This was an intermittent issue I had before I took her to Gary. I was hoping that it would get rectified during Operation SMOG check...no love, it's even worse.

I called him after I read through almost every post I could find...he explained the ICV could be one of the issues. I felt it was my duty as an FJ60 owner, to tackle the problem.

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This is it...it was way the furk in the back of the Carb. Gary told me about that O-ring and if it is gone, It was probably the problem.

When I first pulled it out, it was gone. I got a mirror an looked down in there...wasn't in the hole neither.
Called some parts stores and the dealership...nothing. Went to autozone and bought this package
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Safe for fuel...a couple of them fit but would not allow the ICV to be threaded in. In a last ditch effort, I got lucky and saw the o-ring on top of the intake. So lucky!

I replaced it (re-using the crush seal and doing a carb clean bath with some air) and it fired up, died, fired up again and idled perfectly for 20 minutes.

I drove her 6 miles, to pick up the kid, and she was running great. Started her back up...died. Limped to the freeway and floored it...still stuttering. By the time I got home she was idling again.

I am baffled...my next course of action is to take apart the carb and see if the bowl has crap in it, unless someone says otherwise.

I was hoping that if I typed this through this forum, some clarity would present itself.

Any (and all) advice welcome.
 
It sounds a lot like what my 88 is doing, I know they are a little different, but share some common parts and common problems.
Last night while I was having the idle up and down spit and sputter scratching my head because iv replaced about every part on the thing I started wiggling wiring harnesses. To my surprise I found one spot on the harness that if I wiggled it the idle would go from ruff to smooth, So iv got a short of some kind in my harness a few inches away from my thermostat housing. Ill be doing surgery on it this weekend. No clue what wire could cause so many problems but it will be fixed on mine. And I no idea if the carb motors have the same setup.
 
Oakie rebuild...at high idle, choke it out a few times with a welding glove till it dies; rinse and repeat.
 
and check the wiring to the ICV...
 
Ground the ground side of ICS the plug to the carb body. It's most often the ground which goes to the emmison computer goes bad.
 
Make sure the EGR valve is not intermittently sticking open a tad.

Start the engine and rev it till it will stay running and either smack the EGR a few times with the plastic handle of a hefty screwdriver or remove the vacuum hose connected to the top of the valve and connect another length of vac hose.... And blow HARD. to make sure the valve is seating all the way.
 
Connect a vacuum gauge to the manifold. When the engine can't idle properly, take a look at the gauge. If the vacuum is reading low, the problem is a sticking EGR valve. If the vacuum is normal, then the problem lies elsewhere.
 
Output Shaft said:
Connect a vacuum gauge to the manifold. When the engine can't idle properly, take a look at the gauge. If the vacuum is reading low, the problem is a sticking EGR valve. If the vacuum is normal, then the problem lies elsewhere.
Click to expand...
When it does not idle, it is not running. Will the vacuum be affected if my wife is stepping on the gas pedal? What is the ideal PSI of vacuum?

Thanks!
 
Today...was running amazing! Right when I felt like I killed it, she stuttered, lost power and would not idle (on the freeway at 65 mph). Limped home, wiggled the wires to the ICV, checked the engine fuse, glared at the EGR, and nothing. I want to bypass the EGR to see if that is next.
 
If the EGR valve is sometimes sticking open, the engine will run just fine at cruising speed with your foot on the gas, but will stumble or die at idle. A sticking EGR valve wouldn't cause the engine to suddenly die while cruising at 65 mph.
 
vonschnitz said:
When it does not idle, it is not running. Will the vacuum be affected if my wife is stepping on the gas pedal? What is the ideal PSI of vacuum?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

If you pull the choke will the truck "run"?
When you had the ICS off, did you figure out which lead was hot and try tapping the leads to +/- to hear or feel the ICS click?

The ICS is where I would start, I just rebuilt my top end and the truck ran and idled great beforehand. When I had everything apart I pulled the ICS so I could carb dip the carb and rebuild it. When everything went back together the ICS was dead as a door nail. I could get the truck to run with the choke pulled but once I tried to get it to idle there was nothing. Check that ICS and replace (CCOT has them, save your though) and then permanently ground yours to the carb body using the Green Wired Mod (search on the forum).

As @Output Shaft said, the next place is the EGR which could be sticking.
From there start going down the line of electrical items and troubleshooting possible power loss at speed (maybe fuel pump)?
 
hmmm sounds like a the symptoms I had when my ignitor died. can you swap in a known good one for testing?
 
Output Shaft said:
If the EGR valve is sometimes sticking open, the engine will run just fine at cruising speed with your foot on the gas, but will stumble or die at idle. A sticking EGR valve wouldn't cause the engine to suddenly die while cruising at 65 mph.
Click to expand...
Thank you! I feel as if that rules put the EGR.
 
gregnash said:
If you pull the choke will the truck "run"?
When you had the ICS off, did you figure out which lead was hot and try tapping the leads to +/- to hear or feel the ICS click?

The ICS is where I would start, I just rebuilt my top end and the truck ran and idled great beforehand. When I had everything apart I pulled the ICS so I could carb dip the carb and rebuild it. When everything went back together the ICS was dead as a door nail. I could get the truck to run with the choke pulled but once I tried to get it to idle there was nothing. Check that ICS and replace (CCOT has them, save your though) and then permanently ground yours to the carb body using the Green Wired Mod (search on the forum).

As @Output Shaft said, the next place is the EGR which could be sticking.
From there start going down the line of electrical items and troubleshooting possible power loss at speed (maybe fuel pump)?
Click to expand...
Thank you! I will pull the ICS again and do these tests. I have been hearing the infamous engine bay click when I turn the key or remove and replace the 10a engine fuse.

It does "run" when I pull the choke out...but I am trying to avoid it. Gary advised me not to. Foul plugs, run rich, carbon, yada yada. I will say that my brand new cat is purple, like it got real hot. I was wondering if that was because I was using the choke at intersections and it was dumping gasoline into the cat, and roasting it.

Could that ICS be finicky and intermittent? There is no rhyme or reason to the problem...it seems so random.
 
So you only get the click when you put in a new 10a engine fuse? Unplug the ICS connector and on the harness side plug with the key turned to ACC figure out which is the 12v and which is ground. Build a jumper line between the 12v side of the connectors and then another that will permanently ground the ICS side to the carb body. If you are able to idle then you know that the harness side has an issue.

Igniter is on the passenger side, has a single line that comes out of it and into the middle of the dizzy. Is located on the passenger inner fender right above the charcoal canister.
 
The ICS can be intermident, it's normaly on the computer end, I think the old soldered joints and board go bad, causing the ground end (which is the computer ) causing random bad circut. See the same thing in old hifi gear from the 1970's, I considered having my hifi tech redo the board.....grounding the selnoid to carb body by passes the issue
 
When the truck will not idle, you need to test the ICS by tapping together the two halves of the green connector, with the key on/engine off. You should hear the click-click of the solenoid.

Since you are in Kalif, I'm guessing you still have the emissions computer and they are known to intermittently fail, as Landpimp (what does that mean? :D) says.

And, as stated, grounding the white wire from the solenoid side of the connector bypasses the computer.
 
vonschnitz said:
It does "run" when I pull the choke out...but I am trying to avoid it. Gary advised me not to. Foul plugs, run rich, carbon, yada yada
Click to expand...

If you've got a stock carb, the engine will not run rich when you pull out the choke when the engine is warmed up. The Choke Opener system prevents that. When the engine is warm, you can safely pull the choke knob to your hearts content. All it is, at that point is a throttle positioner.

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