Home Brew Intercooler

[matt.mcinnes]

I've seen pictures of these for about a couple of years now. But yours is the first time I've seen someone actually make one.

I think you need to revise the title. Homebrew to me conjours up visions of almost undrinkable, foul smelling liquid. Not the piece of artwork you've got there.
$3k is about what an aluminium fab shop would need to charge for such a thing.

I found them by accident while looking on the net for someone to ceramic coat my headers, the same place did intercoolers using these cores.
Though the Laminova set up seems to use up to 4 cores but in series so each core works less efficently than the first, by the time the water has reached the 4th core it's already had to absorbe the heat from the first three.
My set up runs all 4 in parallel this however requires a bigger water pump as each core requires 20lts per min minimum. I have on order a Davies Craig EWP110 http://www.daviescraig.com.au/documents/EWP/EWP110_Brochure.pdf
The other draw back to my set up is the number of coolant lines, though this I have a solution too I think.

My only disapointment is the lack of information I have been able to find on the net. Air to Air to me is not suitable for our application as we never achive the speeds to make use of that kind of intercooler efficiently. Water to air seems much more usable but when you start to look at what's available it's pretty limited and expencive. The ricers are well covered by Air to Air, it is at the end of the day a pretty cheap solution. Water to air requires pumps, radiators, thermo fans on top of the cost of the intercooler. The pump alone is $250, plus the cores and Aluminum say $250, welding $180 with still a radiator and thermo fan to go as well as piping. Overall I would say total cost is around $1000 by the time I'm done. Still by far cheaper than the quote for the intercooler alone though.
So this could be a fine home brew of great distinction that out shins it mass produced competitors, on the other hand it could as you say be undrinkable and foul smeeling gut rot. Time and testing will tell.

Either way I have had a ball designing this from scratch to building and soon testing it for my up coming 2F-ETI

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Picked up 2 x 65mm o/d aluminum round bar 100mm long, this will be machined into the converter from the Davies Craig pump to the 8 lines for the intercooler as well as a feed for the Turbo cooling. Just a ruff idea off what I have planned, this will be machined in 2 parts one to fit the hose tail water fitting seen in the photo and the other half to match the Davies Craig outlets. Once both halves are complete they will be welded together by Awill4x4 and then welded to the intercooler. this means the water lines to the cooler are kept to minimum. Rather than having 8 water lines running around the engine bay. The four larger fitting will be splayed like a 4 legged stool.

Ruff drawing/idea or how my brain works lol conical design inside to help split and flow the water evenly.

 

[nickw]

Very nice looking project. Beauty job.

A couple of questions though. (and I don't mean to sound mean).
What made you decide to go air-water-air intercooler over air to air?

When I did some looking into it, air-water-air intercoolers where only recommended for short racing applications, where ice water could be fitted, and you could bring the compressed air temp down below ambient air temp. It seemed that having the heat transfer from air to water and back to air was not efficient enough for long term applications (more than a few minutes) and couldn't cool the compresses air to ambient air temp (like and air-air can). Seems like a lot of extra work (and cost) over an air to air style of intercooler, and due to it higher complexity (for no additional gains) adds more points of failure in the system. And I see you need a flow of 80L/min. Just wondering how many liters of coolant you need in the system? And how big the rad needs to be?

Anyways, I could be completely wrong on all of the above. I am just going off what I read when I was looking at intercooling. But everything I found recommended air to air (Unless doing short races. IE. Drag racing).

Cheers, and I look forward to seeing the project progress.
I am very interested to hear the results.
N.

 

[nickw]

Hello Matt.

Was just reading the thread again and found the below comment.

Air to Air to me is not suitable for our application as we never achive the speeds to make use of that kind of intercooler efficiently. Water to air seems much more usable but when you start to look at what's available it's pretty limited and expencive. The ricers are well covered by Air to Air, it is at the end of the day a pretty cheap solution.

Just wondering what speeds you are going that will not allow an air-air intercooler to work for you? Usually when going slow, wheeling or other, you don't need lots of power.

Even pulling a load, most trucks have plenty of power in the lower gears, its in the upper gears and the higher speeds where more power is needed. For either towing or passing power. But in this case your probably traveling at 50kph+ (and more likely 80kph), at which case, wouldn't an air to air cooler work well?

As I said above, I am still working all this out for myself.
Just curious, as to air.air, and air/water/air

Cheers,
N.

 

[nickw]

And I like your idea of having one line carry the water to the intercooler at which point its split into 4, and then merged back into one, once it leaves the intercooler.

But will the center line be able to carry enough water flow to feed the 4 other lines? Would it need to be bigger?

Cheers,
N.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

And I like your idea of having one line carry the water to the intercooler at which point its split into 4, and then merged back into one, once it leaves the intercooler.

But will the center line be able to carry enough water flow to feed the 4 other lines? Would it need to be bigger?

Cheers,
N.

Center line is for cooling the Turbo

The feed is 30mm O/D with the five fitting flowing the same way.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Hello Matt.

Was just reading the thread again and found the below comment.



Just wondering what speeds you are going that will not allow an air-air intercooler to work for you? Usually when going slow, wheeling or other, you don't need lots of power.

Even pulling a load, most trucks have plenty of power in the lower gears, its in the upper gears and the higher speeds where more power is needed. For either towing or passing power. But in this case your probably traveling at 50kph+ (and more likely 80kph), at which case, wouldn't an air to air cooler work well?

As I said above, I am still working all this out for myself.
Just curious, as to air.air, and air/water/air

Cheers,
N.

As for what we get up too

Vic Winch Challenge 07

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Very nice looking project. Beauty job.

A couple of questions though. (and I don't mean to sound mean).
What made you decide to go air-water-air intercooler over air to air?

When I did some looking into it, air-water-air intercoolers where only recommended for short racing applications, where ice water could be fitted, and you could bring the compressed air temp down below ambient air temp. It seemed that having the heat transfer from air to water and back to air was not efficient enough for long term applications (more than a few minutes) and couldn't cool the compresses air to ambient air temp (like and air-air can). Seems like a lot of extra work (and cost) over an air to air style of intercooler, and due to it higher complexity (for no additional gains) adds more points of failure in the system. And I see you need a flow of 80L/min. Just wondering how many liters of coolant you need in the system? And how big the rad needs to be?

Anyways, I could be completely wrong on all of the above. I am just going off what I read when I was looking at intercooling. But everything I found recommended air to air (Unless doing short races. IE. Drag racing).

Cheers, and I look forward to seeing the project progress.
I am very interested to hear the results.
N.

Air to air tend not to work well after these situations and neither does my radiator, but I can clean my radiator if their is no intercooler in the way.

 

[Dougal]

Will running the turbo coolant into your intercooler plumbing place a lot of unwanted extra heatinto it?

Most turbo water jackets are plumbed into the engine coolant.

 

[nickw]

Okay, I gotcha now. Makes sense.
Slow speed, and you require every once of power you can get to keep them wheels turning and you going forward. Looks like the type of wheeling my buddies do. (only in allowed spots of course )

Mounting in the rear seems like a good idea.
Even mounting your rad in the rear seems like a good idea.

So how much coolant do you need for the system for it to work right? Also how big of rad? Having the rad in the back should add a fair bit of coolant just in the lines. Perhaps you also might want to run the lines through the inside of the vehicle, as covering them in mud, would probably only insulate them, and stop heat from escaping through the line itself. You also might want to insulate the line running to the intercooler.

Also just curious. With an overkill type water intercooler like yours, how close to ambient air temp do you think you can get?

Here is idea as well:
Depending on how long of runs your do, you might want to even consider running your intercooler through a big a big electric cooler/freezer (with icewater (or dry ice) ) or something. Have it full of ice water and put another smaller raditor in the water. That would allow you to compress the air below ambient air temp. Probably keep it as ice water for awhile if the ARB cooler is running in freezer mode. Especially if your air-rad gets the coolant to ambient air temp. Then the cooler/freezer takes it down below). Have it come cold out of the rad, then info the cooler, then out to the intercooler. Just an idea. Probably get a lot more power from that much colder air You could probably get your air sub freezing. And you could run all around higher boost as well.

Cheers,
Nick

Air to air tend not to work well after these situations and neither does my radiator.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Let me ask you this question Nick, if air to air is so good why do 99% of us use air to water to cool the engine

Yes it's cheaper and simpler but its not as efficient, drag cars are a different story they don't want to carry extra weight such as a radiator and thermo fan for cooling the intercooler, no need for such a short sprint, iced water is ideal.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Will running the turbo coolant into your intercooler plumbing place a lot of unwanted extra heatinto it?

Most turbo water jackets are plumbed into the engine coolant.

I just need to make sure the radiator is big enough, should be no issue, I can also run the electric pump on after engine shut down to cool the Turbo

I was wondering though if the intercooler water maybe too cold for the Turbo

 

[Gold Boy]

matt.mcinnes

to confirm.

basically you are keeping the turbo air cooler by keeping the turbo cooler.... by keeping the turbo coolant cooler?

 

[matt.mcinnes]

matt.mcinnes

to confirm.

basically you are keeping the turbo air cooler by keeping the turbo cooler.... by keeping the turbo coolant cooler?

Yes

But as I posted above I do have a concern that the Intercooler water may be too cold to cool the turbo, cold to hot quickly is not a good thing some times

 

[nickw]

to confirm.

basically you are keeping the turbo air cooler by keeping the turbo cooler.... by keeping the turbo coolant cooler?

An intercooler cools the compressed air after the turbo back down to air temp.
Compressed air = hot air. Cold air = denser air = more power.
Colder air also means you can run higher boost which = more power.

EDIT: Just noticed you are also going to cool the water lines to the turbo. as you mention above, it could crack your turbo. I wound if that might also add to much heat to the system?

 

[nickw]

Let me ask you this question Nick, if air to air is so good why do 99% of us use air to water to cool the engine

Yes it's cheaper and simpler but its not as efficient, drag cars are a different story they don't want to carry extra weight such as a radiator and thermo fan for cooling the intercooler, no need for such a short sprint, iced water is ideal.

Many reasons we use water to cool our engines.

But I just thought when it came to intercoolers, air/air was more efficient (for more typical applications).
Almost every intercooler I have ever seen (here in North America) are air to air.
As I said, I never claimed to know everything about it. Just learning. I find it very interesting.
After learning your application, your totally right, a water intercooler is the way to go. Not trying to offend.

What do you think of the idea about running it through another rad after with ice water in an ARB freezer? Think it would be worth the gains?

Cheers,
N.

 

[Gold Boy]

Yes

But as I posted above I do have a concern that the Intercooler water may be too cold to cool the turbo, cold to hot quickly is not a good thing some times

depends on how constant the temperature of the coolant is.... give her a go!

An intercooler cools the compressed air after the turbo back down to air temp.
Compressed air = hot air. Cold air = denser air = more power.
Colder air also means you can run higher boost which = more power.

tanks nick for the confirmation.......

 

[Dougal]

Yes

But as I posted above I do have a concern that the Intercooler water may be too cold to cool the turbo, cold to hot quickly is not a good thing some times

Yeah that would concern me too.

My current turbo is water jacketed. I run it without coolant lines hooked up and haven't had a problem yet. My opinion is that it's only to prevent heat-soak on a hot shutdown and my EGT gauge tells me how hot it is anyway.

3000km since the last rebuild at up to 20psi boost and no issues. Last rebuild was due to the oil feedline coming apart.
I blame Australian Made hoseclamps.

 

[Gold Boy]

Yes

But as I posted above I do have a concern that the Intercooler water may be too cold to cool the turbo, cold to hot quickly is not a good thing some times

this type of intercooler system must of been demonstrated before by other folk?

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Almost every intercooler I have ever seen (here in North America) are air to air.
As I said, I never claimed to know everything about it. Just learning.
After learning your application, your totally right, a water intercooler is the way to go. Not trying to offend.

What do you think of the idea about running it through another rad after with ice water in an ARB freezer? Think it would be worth the gains?

Cheers,
N.

There is a chance we can pressurize these cores and run Freon in them in conjunction with an air con pump now that would be interesting.

Sorry thinking allowed:whoops:

No offense taken I'm learning just as fast as your are.