Help with internal block leak - not head gasket.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Doug, I have to say man, and not that this surprises me about you, but I just have to say you are handling this hideousness so well. I would be so demoralized and dissappointed at this point, and I'm sure you are too to some extent, but you are logically looking at everything and trying to think things through. I know you will fix the problem man, and I know you will share the fix and share the wisdom. I admire you for this, so in the middle of gettin yer ass kicked, I thought I'd take the time to pat yer back!!! HTH. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
 
it probably helps that he has two cruisers and this is not his since new baby.

this is just another good reason to have two cruisers :D
 
Hey guys - thanks. I'm fortunate in many ways in my life that come to bear on this falling into the "slightly frustrating but still adventurous" category for me. Yep, we need it running ASAP. Yep, it's the family hauler. Yep I have two business to run. And yep I am going to win.

At this moment, I'm confident that when I pull the valve cover Wednesday, pressurize the cooling system and peer down the oil galleries I will see UV flourescent glowing coolant trickling from the head gasket seam with my snazzy new UV glasses and light kit. I'll be happy that it's something I can fix rather than some mysterious internal block or head leak/crack.

So thanks very much for the kind thoughts. Yes, I'd rather do a myriad of other things, but on the other hand swinging a wrench on the 80 is still way more fun than things other people will be doing for a couple days out of this week. Especially since I will have absolutely zero stuck bolts (every one got anti-sieze last week) and know how to reach every single fastener on the first try (all I have to do is watch my own video footage!).

DougM
 
Thanks -B- the water port on the back of the timing cover is only one gasket away from the crankcase.
 
RavenTai said:
Thanks -B- the water port on the back of the timing cover is only one gasket away from the crankcase.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the timing cover to block was sealed with RTV. As I recall, Dan was installing the timing chain cover while I was taking pics and there was some concern about the time interval between applying the RTV and bolting up the cover. They wanted it installed within a short period of time.... like less than 60 seconds.

I can see what you're talking about though; a leak at that location would be pushing high pressure water into the timing chain cover that would be low pressure. Seems like Doug would see a lot of coolant in the crankcase though.

-B-
 
Last edited:
Also, a leak from that red circle would be able to come out the timing cover at the screwdriver/pry slot. I took a very careful look at mine with the X ray glasses and UV light - not a trace.

Robbie also took a look at a block he has and judged that any coolant leak at the front cover would be extremely unlikely. Man, what a bonus it is having him here. Even my wife now knows who he is...hmm...

DougM
 
Doug, some questions merely for my own knowledge... Did your old HG have signs of damage/leaks when you changed it? Think this was your original problem or did it just happen to occur at the same time or somehow as a result? Guess that last one will be hard to answer without knowning where the leak is. Good luck!
 
Doug: In two weeks time I'm into the hospital for a high risk repeat heart by-pass surgery, but I'm worrying more over your truck!

Here is my logical summary of this thread:

1) This new problem started after the HG replacement so was almost certainly caused during that repair.
2) If the water loss is as big as you say, A) it can not be burning off and B) such amounts of water constantly mixing with oil would cause more foam and sludge than you have.
3) You have no leaks shown by UV test

Therefore I say the water is going out the tail pipe - probably a warped head. At some time your head overheated to blow the HG and as you did not take your head to a machine shop this is most likely. Do this - condense some of the vapour in your exhaust gasses by holding a cold beer mug over the tail pipe and test the condensation with your UV lamp.

Mike
 
Josh,

My gasket had failed as posted in the 'AAAAUUUUGH' thread a few weeks ago. The leak appeared to be allowing coolant into the oil at the left rear corner of the block/head. Replacing the gasket without machining was logical since I was replacing for a mixing issue rather than the traditional overheat/steam out the exhaust reason (which is how you get warping, etc). However, it appears I was wrong and the previous owner may have overheated it and the head must need some work. I'll find out tomorrow if I'm right when I pull the valve cover to confirm. Cross your fingers..

Michael,

Sorry to hear of your health issue. I will personally pray for your speedy recovery and to have an extra pair of hands in the OR for your operation. Puts my weenie issue in perspective.

After reading your email, I realized I had not looked at the tailpipe with the UV light since the one I used yesterday was powered from the truck battery and the leads were not long enough. The one I bought after that test to use at home for my valve cover test is self contained/LED. So I ran down to the garage, tore open the package, shut off the lights and promptly bashed my shin on the lawnmower in the dark wearing the goggles that came with it. Would have made a great home movie - guy with new tech toy discovers it actually doesn't work.

Anyhow, no glowing deposits which is what I expected. Before the new gasket went on this was also the case. So, what I'm assuming happened is that the head is warped and the new gasket could not hold clamping pressure back there. There's also a small mar on the engine's sealing surface that was outside of the compression ring for the cylinder and also outside the oil ring's area which I'll be attending to. Wasn't a concern due to its location and it came from the edge of the failure point on the gasket. This time I'll make it a concern.

Your 3 point summary is incorrect from the standpoint that this is the same problem as before (Point #1), and I will confirm it tomorrow (wednesday). Like the suggestion on the beer mug.

DougM
 
Doug,

While it couldn't hurt to look at the exhaust, I would be surprised if the dye would make it thru the system and out the tailpipe. If the water is being boiled off somewhere, you are essentially distilling it; any solids (like the dye) will be left behind in the process and/or the cat would surly burn it up--though if your coolant is finding it's way into your crankcase, your oil should be glowing nicely in that UV light :rolleyes:

It may sound harsh, but I hope it is the head. That would make the diagnosis straightforward and something you can deal with (though not without some hassle). And you'd have solved the mystery and we could all stop worrying about where coolant may be leaking into our engines.

Tom
 
Dipstick indeed glows faintly. Agree the dye would have burned off if it went through the cylinder. If it went out the exhaust ports of the head due to a crack, I'd see glowing on the tailpipe. So, I guess no glow is good.

I'm dying to get this started, but I have today committed and tomorrow morning. So, Wed unless I can juggle something. The suspense is freakin' killing me. I've developed compulsive behavior in that whenever the cruiser pops into my mind, I head to the garage and glance at the engine (It's sitting with hood up so my wife or I doesn't accidentally drive off in the wrong 80).

DougM
 
Dough: After I suggested testing for dye in the exhaust I decided that the dye will almost certainly be destroyed in the combustion. Need a medical radioactive tracer I guess. Can you get the UV dye and light at the auto parts store?

I think I remember Dan saying to never put back an untested head and I suppose this is the lesson all us potential HGF need not forget. Now don't forget to film the testing and cut it into the video will you?

Mike
 
Michael,

Yes, the dye and light are available at AutoZone. I purchased the $26 model using an LED on about a 12" flexible wand, and it comes with the special glasses. Excellent for putting the light into that confined area at the back of the head for anyone wanting to check that spot.

And yes, even without an overheat it's a good idea to have the head checked. Apparently...(cough, cough)...

DougM
 
Last edited:
Rick,

I'll be posting what they find. The owner of the race shop seemed extremely well versed and was quite happy to share some excellent advice. One thing he suggested I do to reassure myself if the head's warped or not was to put the cams back in the head on my bench w/o shims and buckets. If I can spin the camshafts by hand the head is not warped. Simple concept - if the head's warped it will be out of shape when not bolted to the block and the extremely precise cam journals will be out of line to the point it will be hard to turn. Naturally, he'll also be checking for warp himself, but the head will come to him without the cams.

DougM
 
I thought that the head actually only clamped down on the sealing rings of the combustion chambers with any great force. That rear oil passage had an o-ring type setup but since the water ways aren't carrying any real pressure I wouldn't think a warped head would fail there first. I realise that the original gaskets fails to the water jacket but thats a result of a sealing ring issue.

I've only done maybe 8 engine jobs in my life on various makes but to have the HG fail this early after a change and in an area of least pressure seems odd.
 
IdahoDoug said:
Rick,

I'll be posting what they find. The owner of the race shop seemed extremely well versed and was quite happy to share some excellent advice. One thing he suggested I do to reassure myself if the head's warped or not was to put the cams back in the head on my bench w/o shims and buckets. If I can spin the camshafts by hand the head is not warped. Simple concept - if the head's warped it will be out of shape when not bolted to the block and the extremely precise cam journals will be out of line to the point it will be hard to turn. Naturally, he'll also be checking for warp himself, but the head will come to him without the cams.

DougM
Click to expand...

Interesting. We just had to pull the head on the Probe 2.0L we got with a cracked coolant passage in the throttle body. Having found that problem and finding no problems with the head gasket, we put it back together. It leaked combustion into the coolant. I don't know if it happened during reassembly by novice mechanics, or it happened due to the car being overheated before we got it, but the head was bent. By that I mean it was warped over .015" and unfixable.

i remember looking at it yesterday before we sent it out and commenting to the other auto teacher how the center cam bearing looked more worn than the other. Now I have an idea as to why.
 
Larry,

Thanks - under the circumstances I'll take my situation over your new one, eh? Sorry, man.

Rick,

I'll be pulling the valve cover here around 9pm (PST) tonight and starting a new thread on HG progress when I am able to look down the oil galleries. Hopefully, I will see glowing coolant dripping down into the oil pan and answer this question. If it's not coming out the HG seam down in there, but is instead a cracked head, I'll see it bubbling up somewhere else atop the head. For those up late, I'm hoping to post by 12 midnight west coast.

DougM
 
take another movie, it's gonna turn out great when you edit these 2 and the next 2 together...! :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Back
Top Bottom