Which one do you prefer? They are about same price just wondering which one is more noticeable.
Ideally get them both done but one is in the budget
Ideally get them both done but one is in the budget
Headers or Catback exhaust?
- Thread starter krice118
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I say none, waist money look like you do not have them (money) anyway / take my word OEM exhaust is tuned well , unless you like the farting noise .
Lots of people seem to like the DT headers unless they are in California. I like how quiet my truck is with stock cat back. I hate my cold weather ticking of stock manifold. If I were you, I'd go headers. But I'm me, and I've bought neither.
...via IH8MUD app
...via IH8MUD app
Doesn't each rely on the other? I'd always assumed the idea was to increase flow. But, if the flow is limited by the stock manifold and/or the stock cat, replacing one does nothing. Like having two dams in a river... and only opening one.
Note that I said "assumed" and am open to any "that's not the case with the 100... and here's why" replies
Note that I said "assumed" and am open to any "that's not the case with the 100... and here's why" replies
Doesn't each rely on the other? I'd always assumed the idea was to increase flow. But, if the flow is limited by the stock manifold and/or the stock cat, replacing one does nothing. Like having two dams in a river... and only opening one.
Note that I said "assumed" and am open to any "that's not the case with the 100... and here's why" replies
Thats not the case with *any* fluid dynamics system, here's why:
Fluid can be thought of very similarly to electricity. Flow rate is amperage, pressure is voltage, and pressure drop is resistance. Basically the headers are one resistor, the cat another, the pipe from the cat to the muffler another, the muffler yet another, and finally the tailpipe is the last resistor. You are adding together, in series, 5 resistors. V = IR or I = V/R. Holding your voltage constant (pressure coming out of the engine), if you drop the resistance any at all, you are increasing your amperage (flow rate).
You can try this on your own. Grab a straw; with both hands, clamp down to form two different resistance areas. You'll notice a difference in how much drink you're able to pull up when you release one of the resistance areas.
How well all of that gobbledy-gook translates to the real world, I can't say. Most modern vehicles have very efficient exhaust systems, so the gains in performance are typically minimal on an otherwise stock vehicle (noise, on the other hand...).
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I have to agree, I like the stock system just fine. I don't think I'd do either unless something had gone bad, and even then I'd lean towards replacing it with stock parts.
I think I remember RobRed did some dyno testing a while back of cat back systems and headers over on tlcfaq.com
I think I remember RobRed did some dyno testing a while back of cat back systems and headers over on tlcfaq.com
I think that people are FAR too sold on Toyota factory engineering being "superior."
Everything can always be improved. I do however agree with the fact that all of the exhaust relies on one another. Adding a catback or headers cannot overcome the fact that there are 3 cats inhibiting flow of the exhaust, or that the down pipes merge into one single exhaust pipe that isn't as large as it should be. Given that, I believe there is a thread with the DT headers being dyno'd and they made significant power over stock. I would find a good performance shop who would fab you some actual down pipes that are built into an x-pipe to create some better exhaust scavenging that goes into true duals (assuming performance is your goal)
Everything can always be improved. I do however agree with the fact that all of the exhaust relies on one another. Adding a catback or headers cannot overcome the fact that there are 3 cats inhibiting flow of the exhaust, or that the down pipes merge into one single exhaust pipe that isn't as large as it should be. Given that, I believe there is a thread with the DT headers being dyno'd and they made significant power over stock. I would find a good performance shop who would fab you some actual down pipes that are built into an x-pipe to create some better exhaust scavenging that goes into true duals (assuming performance is your goal)
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It's not that Toyota engineers are perfect, but I do believe that they design the system as a whole instead of building it in a vacuum. Sure you can get a few more horsepower with aftermarket headers or cat back exhaust.
What were the design goals of the Toyota engineer that designed the system? Probably, durability of the system, protecting the rest of the components of the vehicle, and a non intrusive exhaust note, even if it costs a few horsepower.
What were the design goals of the aftermarket headers or cat back? A few extra horsepower, who cares if it adds a little heat to the component next to it (that causes additional stress) or has a nasty drone at certain speeds.
Are cast iron exhaust manifolds ideal for the best flow/performance? No, but they tend to be a whole lot more durable than headers in my experience.
Do I have an aftermarket headers/exhaust on my little sports car in the garage? Of course I do. Am I willing to put up with an aggressive exhaust note and an occasional drone in a 3000lb 550hp car? Am I willing to sacrifice durability for more HP? Oh hell yes!
Do I want an aftermarket header/exhaust on our LX or LC? Do I want to put up with aggressive exhaust and occasional drone on a long road trip? Am i willing to give up a little durability for a few extra HP? No, not really.
You're starting with a 5800lb vehicle. It's not a muscle car, sports car, sports sedan and wouldn't fair very well at the track or in a street race. You'd probably get just as much of a performance gain by putting it on a diet (removing an unused 3rd row, not adding armor and winches, etc), keeping the stock size and type of tire.
What were the design goals of the Toyota engineer that designed the system? Probably, durability of the system, protecting the rest of the components of the vehicle, and a non intrusive exhaust note, even if it costs a few horsepower.
What were the design goals of the aftermarket headers or cat back? A few extra horsepower, who cares if it adds a little heat to the component next to it (that causes additional stress) or has a nasty drone at certain speeds.
Are cast iron exhaust manifolds ideal for the best flow/performance? No, but they tend to be a whole lot more durable than headers in my experience.
Do I have an aftermarket headers/exhaust on my little sports car in the garage? Of course I do. Am I willing to put up with an aggressive exhaust note and an occasional drone in a 3000lb 550hp car? Am I willing to sacrifice durability for more HP? Oh hell yes!
Do I want an aftermarket header/exhaust on our LX or LC? Do I want to put up with aggressive exhaust and occasional drone on a long road trip? Am i willing to give up a little durability for a few extra HP? No, not really.
You're starting with a 5800lb vehicle. It's not a muscle car, sports car, sports sedan and wouldn't fair very well at the track or in a street race. You'd probably get just as much of a performance gain by putting it on a diet (removing an unused 3rd row, not adding armor and winches, etc), keeping the stock size and type of tire.
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I would be willing to bet emissions were also a high consideration in their design.
I was also replying more towards @skhochay who said it is "tuned fine." I would be willing to bet the performance output of the exhaust was one of the lowest concerns when building the car.
However, what do you use your 100 for? Daily? Wheeling? Family Transport? Towing? Each person has their own want and need out of their 100. Do i expect headers to gain me 50 horsepower and turn my LC into a track car? Absolutely not, but it sure as hell could afford more power to pull its own fatass around, have less restrictions to assist me in MPG, be a way better mountain truck and tow my actual race car around. Preference and use really come into play with the opinion on this subject, and mine is the stock system is poorly engineered for my intended use. To each their own of course.
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I would agree that performance (HP/TQ) was not the primary concern of the Toyota engineers that designed the exhaust system.
I would also agree that vehicle use would definitely play a part in the decision.
I'm also probably little jaded by some of my previous negative experiences with aftermarket exhausts:
1) I've had a number of headers that didn't seem to last very long before they would start leaking/ticking.
2) I had a performance exhaust on a 300zx TT that ran too close to the main wiring harness and created a wonderful mess for me to clean up.
3) I've had a few cat back systems that sounded pretty good until you went on a road trip and discovered an awful drone at cruising speeds.
4) I had a RX7 specific cat back system that the engineer didn't take into account the temperatures involved with a rotary engine, so it self destructed in a matter of months.
If I had cracked/leaking exhaust manifolds on our LC or LX, and Toyota wanted more than a pair of DT headers to replace them, I might consider them. If I had a rotted out /damaged "cat back", and Toyota wanted more than an aftermarket cat back, I might consider it.
Pulling and replacing good manifolds with headers at ~$800 (plus labor) for 21.6HP (peak) and 12.3 ft/lb (peak) of torque (according to tlcfaq.com).
Pulling and replacing a good stock cat back with aftermarket for another ~$800 (plus labor) (based on the OPs statement of same cost) for a 2.6HP (peak) gain and 4.6 ft/lbs (peak) of torque (again based on tlcfaq.com)
~$1600 in, excluding labor, for gains of 24.6HP (peak) and 16.9ft/lbs (peak). I'd still have the factory mid pipe and cats. Somehow that just doesn't get me excited
If I'm gonna spent that kind of money, I think I'd want a full custom exhaust system as you stated in your earlier post.
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you still all smoking - I tell you OEM works just fine - trust me , but if your relay rely want to waist money get a headers .
Sure, if the OEM exhaust isn't leaky, then yes, it's technically working fine. However, I would be willing to bet you my 100 that it definitely is not tuned the best compared to other viable options that were stated above, that's all.
So OP, back to the question at hand. I would get headers initially since they do yield solid numbers, then search around for a GOOD shop that will build you a down pipes back exhaust based off of the headers.
Whichever is rusted or cracked you should upgrade. Otherwise 
not that big of gains.
not that big of gains.
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sounds like i should just save the money now and get a supercharger in a year or 2...
If you can find one!
That or a turbo set-up. All depends on goal. But then again, those types of performance mods can benefit highly from non-restrictive exhaust
Bullet Cars - Supercharger Kits Toyota Landcruiser 100 Series
Found one. Crazy expensive, but found it lol.
I would look into building your own turbo kit or buying a vortech supercharger and fabbing the brackets and kit together. Just my opinion. Kits are nice, but usually are more expensive than a personally built one.
I have both but started with the headers. I replaced due to the factory manifold crack. The headers alone had very little affect on sound but definitely made a noticeable difference in power! I would say they more than compensated all the extra weight and larger tires. I put the cat back system on before HIH to help with towing, it seamed to give that little extra power to keep the cruiser in a high gear up hills with the trailer.
I personally like the sound and don't find it annoying at all.
I would say start with the headers and add the cat back later.
I personally like the sound and don't find it annoying at all.
I would say start with the headers and add the cat back later.
Short memories around here....
DT plus High flow Catback (EMS) system
Worth about +10% TQ and HP (AVG). Add high flow cats and that number bumps.
DT headers alone + Stock Exhaust:
Wheel Horsepower: +10.2% peak
Wheel Torque: + 4.3% peak
Tests and Reviews
4 years in with DT headers and 2 years in with EMS Exhaust (the good version). Held up extremely well.
DT plus High flow Catback (EMS) system
Worth about +10% TQ and HP (AVG). Add high flow cats and that number bumps.
DT headers alone + Stock Exhaust:
Wheel Horsepower: +10.2% peak
Wheel Torque: + 4.3% peak
Tests and Reviews
4 years in with DT headers and 2 years in with EMS Exhaust (the good version). Held up extremely well.
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